Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

And little has been heard of HGVs converting away from diesel. Am aware of the use of other fuels such as gases, but battery power seems to be some way off, to put it mildly.

This isn't the problem it might seem to be. The great majority of the 39 million vehicles on UK roads are cars. Under half a million are HGVs. Deal with the cars and over 93% of the problem has gone away.

We already have electric light HGVs in the 7.5 tonne class, most commonly running on sodium-salt batteries. We also have some electric vans and the choice is increasing. Indeed the Morris name is back, used by Morris Commercial for their transit size e-van. Information link

.

 

[oldgroaner]

They'll be next to be phased out...

Mind, seriously, there has been work on reducing flatulence in ruminants.

That's just a malicious rumina..... sorry

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, but gas is being phased out!
.

Curse these EU regulations
(official government response)

 

[oldgroaner]

We'll all be using these

 

[flecc]

Curse these EU regulations
(official government response)

They wouldn't get away with that, the EU countries are well behind us in the consumer gas market, very gas dependent.
.

 

[wheeler]

Tens of thousands of motorists who were incentivised by the government to buy hybrid cars believing they were an environmentally friendly option now fear their resale value will slump as the ban approaches.

No, the reason for any "slump in value" will be because the cars will be over 15 years old and knackered.

Hybrids are only an interim measure, they suit the car industry in that it can continue to sell internal combustion engines while they progress the changeover to electric vehicles. For the consumer they provide belt and braces until battery electric vehicles become more mainstream.

The current "self charging" hybrids have such poor battery capacity that they can't even be used on battery power in cities to improve urban air quality.

 

[wheeler]

You can always fit a bladder on the roof filled with gas of course

Mine would be called Boris.

 

[vfr400]

Here is one for the resident troll
His beloved government is even upsetting it's supporters
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/02/04/hybrid-car-fiasco-kick-face-drivers/
Hybrid car fiasco 'a kick in the face' for drivers
Ministers accused of 'greenwashing' as 2035 ban causes confusion among motorists

Hybrid car owners have been given a “kick in the face” by ministers, motoring bodies have said, as they warned that the surprise decision to ban the vehicles from sale in 2035 will “backfire”.

Tens of thousands of motorists who were incentivised by the government to buy hybrid cars believing they were an environmentally friendly option now fear their resale value will slump as the ban approaches.

Friends of the Earth accused ministers of “greenwashing” the public into believing they should buy hybrids, even though some models can produce higher CO2 emissions than new diesel cars.

But what's another bad decision, when they never seem capable of making good ones?

Again, you're becoming enraged by not reading the writing. The ban relates to the sale of new cars.

In 2035, nobody will want to buy a new hybrid anyway because there will be better alternatives. If you have a hybrid or a diesel car, there is no proposal to ban their use, except that some Labour controlled cities are thinking about banning some vehicles in their centres to reduce polution. That is where you need to direct your outrage if you think that will be a problem for you.

Just look back at all your recent posts. Nearly everyone is saying that the sky is falling down. It isn't. You'll be fine as long as you have at least a three months emergency supplies of water food, medications and other essential supplies to ride out the corona virus epidemic when it comes. That should be much more worrying than what Boris had for breakfast.

 

[vfr400]

Does this coin flip look a bit suspicious?

Watch Pete Buttigieg ‘Randomly’ Wins Coin Toss

‘Buttigieg will get 3 delegates’

grabien.com

 

[Woosh]

Again, you're becoming enraged by not reading the writing. The ban relates to the sale of new cars.

In 2035, nobody will want to buy a new hybrid anyway because there will be better alternatives. If you have a hybrid or a diesel car, there is no proposal to ban their use, except that some Labour controlled cities are thinking about banning some vehicles in their centres to reduce polution. That is where you need to direct your outrage if you think that will be a problem for you.

Just look back at all your recent posts. Nearly everyone is saying that the sky is falling down. It isn't. You'll be fine as long as you have at least a three months emergency supplies of water food, medications and other essential supplies to ride out the corona virus epidemic when it comes. That should be much more worrying than what Boris had for breakfast.

I am surprised that you are defending BJ on this one.
Those who are enraged bought their hybrids and PHEVs until recently.
Cars are supposed to last 20+ years and most people including myself buy usually second hand.

 

[oyster]

This isn't the problem it might seem to be. The great majority of the 39 million vehicles on UK roads are cars. Under half a million are HGVs. Deal with the cars and over 93% of the problem has gone away.

We already have electric light HGVs in the 7.5 tonne class, most commonly running on sodium-salt batteries. We also have some electric vans and the choice is increasing. Indeed the Morris name is back, used by Morris Commercial for their transit size e-van. Information link

.

From 2017 (figures for 2018 are not broken down) - percentages of total petroleum consumption:

Petrol - 11.3%
Diesel - 24.5 %

Of the diesel, 11.0% was cars, with 13.5% for light vans, HGVs, buses and coaches.

Energy and environment: data tables (ENV)

Data about fuel consumption, emissions and renewable fuel, produced by Department for Transport.

www.gov.uk

Not certain how agricultural use is accounted!

That shape van should be red, or brown. Definitely not blue!

 

[vfr400]

Changes are afoot. I just noticed that not only is Tommy Robinson's Youtube channel no longer restricted, but they've given him a verified tick. I don't think anyone was expecting that. Why did it happen?

Tommy Robinson

My name is Tommy Robinson. I am a journalist, activist and public figure fighting for the forgotten people of the UK.

www.youtube.com

 

[vfr400]

I am surprised that you are defending BJ on this one.
Those who are enraged bought their hybrids and PHEVs until recently.
Cars are supposed to last 20+ years and most people including myself buy usually second hand.

It's no problem. As I said, there's no proposed or other ban on using them. It could even be like the situation with the Honda SS50 and Yamaha FS1E. When you couldn't buy new ones anymore, the price of used ones sky-rocketed.

BTW, I'm not defending BJ or anyone else. I'm just trying to clarify the factors because people seem to be misunderstanding them.

BTW2, I suspect that the encouragement to change to electric cars has more to do with dependency on oil supplies than environmental factors.

 

[Woosh]

When you couldn't buy new ones anymore, the price of used ones sky-rocketed.

not the case of the hybrids. They will be banned from sale from 2035.
I am not sure about banning from use.
That may arrive shortly afterward.
I do like the idea of a PHEV with about 100 mile range on electric.
It's enough from Southend to London and back.
If you can't wait in a queue for a charger, you can elect to use your other motor.

 

[oldgroaner]

Progress
New photobooth at House of Commons promotes applying for Irish passports

 

[oldgroaner]

Piers Morgan calls Boris Johnson a 'coward' for turning down invites to appear on Good Morning Britain

Boris Invisible Man Johnson unavailable to be held accountable by anyone

 

[flecc]

not the case of the hybrids. They will be banned from sale from 2035.
I am not sure about banning from use.

Hybrids will stop selling long before 2035. That will be for these reasons:

1) As the long ranges of newer e-cars dawns on consumers.

2) The very high price of hybrids against comparable e-cars.

3) The much higher servicing and fuel costs of hybrids.

4) The tax and benefits discrimination against hybrids.

I don't see any future ban on running ic car engines, they'll run down in numbers quickly enough as fuel stations continue to disappear as they are already doing, making them far more awkard to use. The number of petrolheads who stick with them won't be large enough to be a worry.
.

 

[Woosh]

2) The very high price of hybrids against comparable e-cars.

I guess the current subsidy for e-cars may stop before 2035 and there would still be a need for dual fuel for some years to come until the charging time won't be an issue anymore.

 

[flecc]

From 2017 (figures for 2018 are not broken down) - percentages of total petroleum consumption:

Petrol - 11.3%
Diesel - 24.5 %

Of the diesel, 11.0% was cars, with 13.5% for light vans, HGVs, buses and coaches.

There will be changes though as more e-vans and light e- trucks come into use. As vfr400 mentioned, we already have e-vehicle only delivery zones in some areas of cities and they will increase in number and scope. And of course we will be limited on how fast we can change over from fossil fuel. Cars are quite enough for a few years yet.

It is also relevant that truncking pollution is probably about 80% away from cities on the open road.

That shape van should be red, or brown. Definitely not blue!

I agree the blue is horrible, but surely a van should be pure white, especially a "green" one.
.

 

[flecc]

I guess the current subsidy for e-cars may stop before 2035 and there would still be a need for dual fuel for some years to come until the charging time won't be an issue anymore.

The price differential is far greater than the e-car subsidy though. There was £10k difference between my Leaf and the Mitsubishi PHEV hybrid alternative and the subsidy only a third of that. Add the latter's higher servicing and running cost and there's no contest.

I don't see charging time as the problem you feel it is, it's keeping pace. 125 to 200 kW being currently installed and 350 kW arriving very soon, with the cars keeping pace. And of course most cars spend almost all their lives standing idle!

I think the main problem will be the rate of conversion of older slower chargers.
.