Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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I agree with your children too. Do your kids yo-yo back and forth around the globe on private jets whilst saying it though? That last bit is the important element to it all, and it is this which elevates Harry & Meghan to dick-head status.
of course not, like my wife and me, they usually go walking on their holidays.
I don't know how many miles Harry and Meghan fly a year but I separate their message from their travels.
 

oldgroaner

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none of the items on your list is under Harry's and Meghan's control, they can all be taken away by the government and Charles.
The money comes essentially from Harry's family except costs relating to security and work expenses.
Their big wedding helped TM's government and tourism.
Would anyone blame me, my son or daughter, for paying my son's wedding costs? or my daughter's flat? or their flight tickets to come on holiday with me?
Our gutter press poisons the mind of our citizens.
Minds of our citizens? what's all this about minds? we don't have minds in these parts, nor citizens after the end of the month we have "Subjects with conditioned attitudes."
Present company excepted of course o_O
 

Barry Shittpeas

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I don't know how many miles Harry and Meghan fly a year but I separate their message from their travels.
I don't separate the two, especially when they use private jets which are reckoned to be 7 X more polluting per head than an airliner. To make a serious message regarding pollution and climate change, it's imperative to have a squeaky clean lifestyle track record (certainly from the time you start preaching) and to be setting an example. This pair are just clowning around because they think it's a trendy thing to do.

It sounds like your children have credibility regarding their stance and believe in it.
 

Woosh

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I don't separate the two, especially when they use private jets which are reckoned to be 7 X more polluting per head than an airliner. To make a serious message regarding pollution and climate change, it's imperative to have a squeaky clean lifestyle track record (certainly from the time you start preaching) and to be setting an example. This pair are just clowning around because they think it's a trendy thing to do.
I agree that they probably think that it's a trendy thing to do and say a few good words on carbon footprint, but they don't claim to be eco-warriors themselves.
We all do recycling when we put the bins out, or carry a plastic bag when going to the supermarket and still fly somewhere once or twice a year. That does not make us hypocrites.
 

wheeler

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Woosh wasn't justifying it, just explaining the delay.

All the big boys do it, as well as all the cases mentioned above there was the Korean Airlines flight 007 deliberately shot down by a Russian SU15 warplane on 1st September 1983. The pilot had direct orders from the top to shoot it down, but they denied shooting it down for a while.

And of course there was Malayan Airlines flight MH17 shot down by a missile over the Ukraine, still firmly denied by all parties. But now international arrest warrants are out for Igor Girkin, Sergei Dubinsky and Oleg Pulatov from Russia, as well as Ukrainian Leonid Kharchenko, with a trial scheduled.

They all play for time to get the best story together after such events.
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Apparently the Iranians have stated that they are going to upgrade their air-defence systems in an attempt to prevent such tragedies occurring.
Everyone concerned with Iran's missile defence systems is to have a copy of FlightRadar24 installed on their phone.
 
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oldgroaner

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There's an object lesson on the perils of unintended consequences here.
In killing one man Trump also killed a couple more in the attack, and this action also led to a Funeral where 29 were killed, and a trigger happy Air defence team killing 179 innocent civilians thinking they were under attack.
Not merely Iran, but the USA should be paying compensation too.
 

Zlatan

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There's an object lesson on the perils of unintended consequences here.
In killing one man Trump also killed a couple more in the attack, and this action also led to a Funeral where 29 were killed, and a trigger happy Air defence team killing 179 innocent civilians thinking they were under attack.
Not merely Iran, but the USA should be paying compensation too.
But the counter to that is how many has the action saved? A figure that could be zero or thousands. We just dont know.
 

oldgroaner

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But the counter to that is how many has the action saved? A figure that could be zero or thousands. We just dont know.
Why should it have saved anybody? he was only one man where there are undoubtedly many to take his place, and by all accounts the Americans were happy enough to have him as an ally fighting isis.
That argument is totally spurious and cant be used to justify so many innocent deaths, can it?
So how do you justify using the man as an ally, then assassinating him?
 

Barry Shittpeas

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I agree that they probably think that it's a trendy thing to do and say a few good words on carbon footprint, but they don't claim to be eco-warriors themselves.
We all do recycling when we put the bins out, or carry a plastic bag when going to the supermarket and still fly somewhere once or twice a year. That does not make us hypocrites.
I disagree with most of that. Both live a highly polluting life style and they could easily make changes which would reduce their pollution greatly. They simply will not because to do so is inconvenient for them. Therefore they have absolutely no right to lecture others. That situation holds until they change their habits and stop making dick-heads of themselves.

Incidentally, I don’t recycle household waste.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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Why should it have saved anybody? he was only one man where there are undoubtedly many to take his place, and by all accounts the Americans were happy enough to have him as an ally fighting isis.
That argument is totally spurious and cant be used to justify so many innocent deaths, can it?
So how do you justify using the man as an ally, then assassinating him?
To be fair, no one knows the nett effect in terms of lives. What if someone had shot Hittler in the mid 1930s. It could have played out differently and saved many lives, it might not have done so. No one knows.
 

oldgroaner

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To be fair, no one knows the nett effect in terms of lives. What if someone had shot Hittler in the mid 1930s. It could have played out differently and saved many lives, it might not have done so. No one knows.
What we do know is that nearly 200 died because of this act, there can be no argument about that surely?
 

Barry Shittpeas

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What we do know is that nearly 200 died because of this act, there can be no argument about that surely?
It's stretching it a bit. The USA action lit the touch paper, which led to the deaths. In the same way Ford lit the touch paper which has led to millions of deaths on the roads. I think there is a limit to how much subsequent catastrophe you can be held responsible for.

The funeral deaths were mainly due to religious nutcases running around in those, Mad Jaffa Cake Eater, style hats & tripping over their beards. The aircraft was probably downed for similar reasons.
 
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Danidl

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It's stretching it a bit. The USA action lit the touch paper, which led to the deaths. In the same way Ford lit the touch paper which has led to millions of deaths on the roads. I think there is a limit to how much subsequent catastrophe you can be held responsible for.

The funeral deaths were mainly due to religious nutcases running around in those, Mad Jaffa Cake Eater, style hats & tripping over their beards. The aircraft was probably downed for similar reasons.
would you just give it a rest.
 
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Woosh

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I disagree with most of that. Both live a highly polluting life style and they could easily make changes which would reduce their pollution greatly. They simply will not because to do so is inconvenient for them. Therefore they have absolutely no right to lecture others. That situation holds until they change their habits and stop making dick-heads of themselves.

Incidentally, I don’t recycle household waste.
well I disagree with you on this. I don't think Harry and Meghan set out to preach to anyone on carbon footprint. If that comment had come from a politician or any HRH, no body would pay any attention but our printed press like the Sun and the Daily Mirror would try to build a case against specifically Meghan for their own tactical advantage.
As far as I can see, Harry, Meghan and Archie would be a lot less harassed anywhere else than in the UK. Their stricter laws in North America on the freedom of the press would not allow such level of vilification.
 

Woosh

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It's habitual, they effectively did it to Saddam Hussein too.
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and Gaddafi.
The USA's specialty in foreign affairs is corruption.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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well I disagree with you on this. I don't think Harry and Meghan set out to preach to anyone on carbon footprint. If that comment had come from a politician or any HRH, no body would pay any attention but our right wing press like the Daily Mail would try to build a case against specifically Meghan for their own tactical advantage.
As far as I can see, Harry, Meghan and Archie would be a lot less harassed anywhere else than in the UK.
They both, particularly Meghan, got very good press in the beginning. All of the newspapers were complimentary, and the fact that Meghan is of mixed race was reported in very positive terms. No, as I said before, the rot set in when the hypocrisy and stupid behaviour started. It’s exactly the same with any public figure, act like a clown and a hypocrite and they can get ready for a battering in the press.

Harry & Meghan are completely responsible for this mess and associated flack in the press.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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It sounds as if the Jaffa Cake Hat crew are getting a hard time from their generally moderate and rational population in Iran. Apparently they are on the streets ripping up pictures of the guy the USA wasted. They are also calling for death of the Iranian leaders. This could be interesting.

The regime inside Iran must be a bit further onto the back foot. This is a good time to press for an international investigation into the airliner being shot down. Also their illegal behaviour by arresting the British Ambassador needs to be investigated.
 
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Woosh

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They both, particularly Meghan, got very good press in the beginning. All of the newspapers were complimentary, and the fact that Meghan is of mixed race was reported in very positive terms. No, as I said before, the rot set in when the hypocrisy and stupid behaviour started. It’s exactly the same with any public figure, act like a clown and a hypocrite and they can get ready for a battering in the press.

Harry & Meghan are completely responsible for this mess and associated flack in the press.
in constrast to our gutter press, here is an alternative view from the Guardian:

QUOTE:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/12/now-harry-and-meghan-are-going-time-to-look-a-true-royal-horrors

If Meghan never, unlike Diana, Princess of Wales, had to run from photographers, she has been subjected, courtesy in particular of the Daily Mail, to a new, permissible variation on press harassment: relentless, condescending censure informed by what 70 female MPs recently described as “outdated, colonial undertones”. One day, a reprimand might focus on Meghan’s relationship with her father, another on her tights, her friends, her “bump-boasting”, her extravagance, her ruthlessness, her unhappy staff, her christening photographs, her meanness to Kate. Not forgetting her Vogue editing, chapel dissing, Queen snubbing, baby showering, baby holding, baby hiding and Harry controlling. In the light of this trolling, the press’s earlier pursuit of Diana practically radiates mutual respect.
 

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