Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Well spotted. So OG didn't actually watch the video.

This does not surprise me much - he's not interested in any other views other than his own - he's not open to changing his mind but only seeks confirmation of his already held views.

Shame really as Godwin (the speaker in the video) is not particularly pro-Brexit (and definitely not anti-Labour) - plus of course you soon realise just how wide-ranging and deep is his knowledge of the subject.

Christopher Hitchens in a famous quote could have been talking about OG:

"You give me the distinct impression of somebody who has never studied the arguments against your position"

But in a way - I am falling for his con - for he (OG) is a con artist. And what is it he is trying to con us out of? Well it's quite obvious - he's lonely and wants attention - he wants our time.

And we keep giving it to him.

He's an expert troll in that way - says the most outrageous things knowing it will spark a response. As with his 'people were conned' comment written without actually watching the video.

He's not interested in what we say - only that we said something - to him. That's the kick he gets - he is the centre of attention. Bless. Let's all give OG a big hug. Maybe that will do the trick. But I think I am through talking politics with him.

Really, so you voted for the most disreputable con artist in the country and support shady Make America Great again lobby groups and you c
all me a con man?
And now you resort to this sort on nonsense

"But in a way - I am falling for his con - for he (OG) is a con artist. And what is it he is trying to con us out of? Well it's quite obvious - he's lonely and wants attention - he wants our time."

Am I supposed to be impressed with such a pathetic attack as that?

As to "Want your time? "hardly, I'm not a fan of people who work against a better future for the people of this country,

 

[oldgroaner]

Don't bang your butt on the door on your way out.

Jonathan is another one not really interested in any other views but his own. Though he is in fact a much darker character than OG as I am sure the more preceptive amongst you are plainly aware.

The idea that Boris of Farage are somehow part of some shift to some xenophobic fascism is utter tosh. Here is somebody (Jonathan I mean) who can see only in black and white. If you're not with me - you must be a xenophobic fascist.

Thus he misses the millions and millions of ordinary people who had genuine concerns about how many people were entering the country and changing the culture way faster than the country was able to absorb and integrate.

But no - according to him they're all xenophobes and fascists.

Like with OG though - it is pretty pointless debating with him - he is not interested in what you have to say - only to find something within it to attack - nothing new can get in there.

It's pointless debating with you because all we get from you is right wing propaganda.
And if you imagine Farage and the rest of the leave plotters aren't part of a plot then you are really blind.
Taken in by your own propaganda it seems.

 

[Zlatan]

OG, Flecc and Agnew typify exactly why Tory won with their resounding victory. Trouble is they, just like opposition to Tories, have closed minds, refuse to hear or see the real reasons why they lost, openly admitting to have not watched video (they dont need to) yet continue to insult the very people pointing out what is obvious to even the casual obswrver. Yesterday it was Grayson Perry who was the "idiot". Today its Goodwin. Its been "leavers" and Tory voters for past 3 years.
It really is a complete and utter waste of time arguing with such a set of closed minds. If you are a long term Tory your only response could be rejoice. As a Labour supporter its despair. Despair that such as these have taken control of the movement and are taking it to iblivion. Thanks Flecc, OG and Agnew.

 

[50Hertz]

funny that people voted for this clown imagining he knows what he is doing and how to pay for it.

And Labour did? How can you say this when Labour, on a complete whim, committed to fifty eight thousand million pounds worth of extra and totally unplanned spending in less than 48 hour?

This serves to show how utterly fixated, biased, intransigent and blind you are, almost to the point of it being an illness. You blast those that you happen not to like for doing exactly the same acts that Labour advocate and that you support. it’s unreal.

it‘s ok to take a balanced view, to praise and criticise things you like & dislike about any party. I think that if Brexit cured cancer, brought about everlasting world peace, ended global poverty and cured all disease, you would still hate it because it’s called Brexit.

 

[50Hertz]

OG, Flecc and Agnew typify exactly why Tory won with their resounding victory. Trouble is they, just like opposition to Tories, have closed minds, refuse to hear or see the real reasons why they lost, openly admitting to have not watched video (they dont need to) yet continue to insult the very people pointing out what is obvious to even the casual obswrver. Yesterday it was Grayson Perry who was the "idiot". Today its Goodwin. Its been "leavers" and Tory voters for past 3 years.
It really is a complete and utter waste of time arguing with such a set of closed minds. If you are a long term Tory your only response could be rejoice. As a Labour supporter its despair. Despair that such as these have taken control of the movement and are taking it to iblivion. Thanks Flecc, OG and Agnew.

Just leave them to drive Labour further into the weeds, no one wants that version of Labour anyway. Won’t be missed.

 

[Zlatan]

Just leave them to drive Labour further into the weeds, no one wants that version of Labour anyway. Won’t be missed.

I agree but it takes the lot down. Only possible way forward is for current labour to somehow amalgamate with the labour blue and listen to such as Campbell, Kinnock, Blair and chap OJ posted link to. Perhaps its a generational thing, some fail to accept the old guard of Tory/Labour and socialist/ capitalist have almost gone. We align ourselves to different criteria. Tories have cottoned on. Labour have not. The video is excellent. Should be compulsory watching for any posting on here.

 

[50Hertz]

I agree but it takes the lot down. Only possible way forward is for current labour to somehow amalgamate with the labour blue and listen to such as Campbell, Kinnock, Blair and chap OJ posted link to. Perhaps its a generational thing, some fail to accept the old guard of Tory/Labour and socialist/ capitalist have almost gone. We align ourselves to different criteria. Tories have cottoned on. Labour have not. The video is excellent. Should be compulsory watching for any posting on here.

Labour is now split into two halves. One half will ensure that Labour will never get into power again. The other half want to follow a route that will give them a fair chance of forming a future government. You know who is in each camp.

It’s now up to Labour to decide whether to continue blaming everyone but themselves, or to get on and sort it.

At the present time, Labour’s delusion is complete. We dodged a bullet in the GE. Boris Johnson will be sitting on that Caribbean island, pretty confident of 10 years as PM.

 

[50Hertz]

Well, Nigel Farage isn’t going to be enrolled into the same honours scheme as Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall, Fred Goodwin and Philip Green. I wonder how he’s feeling about that.

 

[oldgroaner]

Labour is now split into two halves. One half will ensure that Labour will never get into power again. The other half want to follow a route that will give them a fair chance of forming a future government. You know who is in each camp.

It’s now up to Labour to decide whether to continue blaming everyone but themselves, or to get on and sort it.

At the present time, Labour’s delusion is comply. We dodged a bullet in the GE. Boris Johnson will be sitting on that Caribbean island, pretty confident of 10 years as PM.

Did you indeed? Today lord Howard is rewriting history by saying the Supreme Court was wrong about Boris lying and proroguing Parliament and they have given an honour to Duncan Smith, but Farage must have upset them.
All good standard right wing fare.
The bigger the lies the better.

 

[oldgroaner]

I agree but it takes the lot down. Only possible way forward is for current labour to somehow amalgamate with the labour blue and listen to such as Campbell, Kinnock, Blair and chap OJ posted link to. Perhaps its a generational thing, some fail to accept the old guard of Tory/Labour and socialist/ capitalist have almost gone. We align ourselves to different criteria. Tories have cottoned on. Labour have not. The video is excellent. Should be compulsory watching for any posting on here.

If they want to waste their time over something that’s past and done

 

[Zlatan]

Did you indeed? Today lord Howard is rewriting history by saying the Supreme Court was wrong about Boris lying and proroguing Parliament and they have given an honour to Duncan Smith, but Farage must have upset them.
All good standard right wing fare.
The bigger the lies the better.

Totally irrelevant, a distraction you, ve bought into.

 

[Zlatan]

If they want to waste their time over something that’s past and done

Ofcourse getting into power for you and current Labour is a waste of time.

 

[50Hertz]

Ofcourse getting into power for you and current Labour is a waste of time.

They’ve absolutely no need to worry about power, that won’t be happening. It won’t be happening because nobody wants them or their crack-pot policies and ideas. No one at all.

 

[OxygenJames]

..if Brexit cured cancer, brought about everlasting world peace, ended global poverty and cured all disease, you would still hate it because it’s called Brexit.

Right.

 

[50Hertz]

Well, I will be starting to build four new houses during mid February. Just completed negotiations with the construction contractor I’ve had the land for a while, but held off building whilst the threat of Corbyn theft existed.

The construction industry is absolutely booming. Since my last build, the price charged by skilled tradesmen has gone up by at least 20%. Materials are about the same. Bricking teams can earn £1 / brick fairly easily! I can see this situation inflating further in the medium term.

Now, I will be creating employment, and creating good quality and energy efficient houses for people to live in. It’s a while since I last did this and it’s quite exciting / stimulating to anticipate the pitfalls/ rewards the next few months may hold.

 

[OxygenJames]

Labour is now split into two halves. One half will ensure that Labour will never get into power again. The other half want to follow a route that will give them a fair chance of forming a future government. You know who is in each camp.

It’s now up to Labour to decide whether to continue blaming everyone but themselves, or to get on and sort it.

At the present time, Labour’s delusion is complete. We dodged a bullet in the GE. Boris Johnson will be sitting on that Caribbean island, pretty confident of 10 years as PM.

Labour moved way too far liberal on the culture for the average white male in Hartlepool. But it did so because its power base was more and more made up of the Hampstead, affluent, university educated block - and of the two groups we know which most MPs belonged to - and it wasn't the working class.

Our man in Hartlepool didn't want all that LGBT equality and open immigration shoved down their throats.

So they voted as they did.

Labour are doomed - there is no way they can hold those two extremes together now - it's gone - all they are left with is a rump of die-hard socialists who are not interested in power only in some blind allegiance to an outdated and never-successful political ideology.

 

[OxygenJames]

They’ve absolutely no need to worry about power, that won’t be happening. It won’t be happening because nobody wants them or their crack-pot policies and ideas. No one at all.

It still concerns me that around 25% of the population still do want such crack-pot policies. But at least for 5 probably 10 years they won't be getting a look in.

 

[OxygenJames]

Well, Nigel Farage isn’t going to be enrolled into the same honours scheme as Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall, Fred Goodwin and Philip Green. I wonder how he’s feeling about that.

It's too early for him - give it time - they will come round in the end and he will get something.

 

[flecc]

Thus he misses the millions and millions of ordinary people who had genuine concerns about how many people were entering the country and changing the culture way faster than the country was able to absorb and integrate.

Two snags with this.

First is how the USA has become the most successful country in the world by continuous unfettered immigration.

Second is how London is so successful and socially well integrated compared to the regions, due to doing the same.

Both have no majority of any one original group, we are all minorities which is why in both countries we work so successfully together. But in both we also keep our original identities and cultures in parallel while also enjoying the variety of each others, giving the lie to the concerns of the regions.

The fact that the two, London and the USA, have diametrically opposing politics shows that politics has nothing to do with their relative successes, which are largely down to immigration and integration.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Two snags with this.

First is how the USA has become the most successful country in the world by continuous unfettered immigration.

Second is how London is so successful and socially well integrated compared to the regions, due to doing the same.

Both have no majority of any one original group, we are all minorities which is why in both countries we work so successfully together. But in both we also keep our original identities and cultures in parallel while also enjoying the variety of each others, giving the lie to the concerns of the regions.

The fact that the two, London and the USA, have diametrically opposing politics shows that politics has nothing to do with their relative successes, which are largely down to immigration and integration.
.

And???