Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

Cummings managed to drive a wedge between opposition parties, that's why.

more would have voted for them to stop the tories if Swinson and Corbyn could do a deal.

Wherein lies the problem. Labour had and have no intentions of deals with any "not true labour". They are exactly the opposite of what they preach. Its a form of racism but slanted towards ideology over heritage.
They cant make agreements between themselves for good of party or that of country.
Tories on the other hand have managed ERG, DUP, BXP and others within their ranks. Its probably why they won.
Have you ever heard a Tory say "He, s not really Tory is he". Seems to cover a much broader spectrum than "Labour".

 

[oldgroaner]

The Independent? Figures.

Really are you saying it isn’t true?

 

[oldgroaner]

You, ve lost me with that. I think you assume being called not proper labour is an insult? I, m afraid the days of us and them politics are gone OG. Its exactly mistake Labour /Corbyn made. The country doesnt want a Union dominated, and by definition of that a left wing, party to lead it. Call it what you want, do or dont call it labour, but if you want a party to oppose Tories we need a second party. If Labour want to be that second party then change they must, if they dont either another one will rise to take Labour's place or Tories will go unopposed.
If left want to be part of that movement they must welcome, probably not Blair, but polticians of his ilk. If they dont the left will simply not be represented.
Without doubt a party will emerge towards centre to challenge Tories. I, d like to see the left as part of that party. Perhaps you dont.

So long as we don’t get new labour back I won’t mind
I had no time for Corbyn as he was a one nation socialist and no time for new labour either. Hence I never joined the party nor voted for new labour

 

[oldgroaner]

Wherein lies the problem. Labour had and have no intentions of deals with any "not true labour". They are exactly the opposite of what they preach. Its a form of racism but slanted towards ideology over heritage.
They cant make agreements between themselves for good of party or that of country.
Tories on the other hand have managed ERG, DUP, BXP and others within their ranks. Its probably why they won.
Have you ever heard a Tory say "He, s not really Tory is he". Seems to cover a much broader spectrum than "Labour".

You can always leave the party and join something else

 

[oldgroaner]

Wherein lies the problem. Labour had and have no intentions of deals with any "not true labour". They are exactly the opposite of what they preach. Its a form of racism but slanted towards ideology over heritage.
They cant make agreements between themselves for good of party or that of country.
Tories on the other hand have managed ERG, DUP, BXP and others within their ranks. Its probably why they won.
Have you ever heard a Tory say "He, s not really Tory is he". Seems to cover a much broader spectrum than "Labour".

why did Boris throw the 27 out then?

 

[oldgroaner]

It's already done that. In April (or there abouts) the government was slipping towards some kind of Brexit fudge or no Briexit at all - May and her Remain cohorts failing to act on the 2016 result even flirting with a second ref. Then what happened? Farage stepped back into the ring - formed the Brexit party - and all minds were very suddenly fully focussed once more.

The rest is history - ie they won the EU elections and effectively forced May out of office - job done!

Farage is my politician of the decade - by a country mile - who else has so transformed this country's politics than him? Knighthood/place in the Lords is the least he should be getting.

Putin should give him a medal

 

[Zlatan]

You can always leave the party and join something else

I, m afraid thats the feeling o
f many and may well happen. Depends what happens over next few years. Dissenting voices were ignored whilst Corbyn was popular. There are positive signs and a few not so.
Seems to me Labour ignored the message not because of content but because of messenger.

 

[Zlatan]

why did Boris throw the 27 out then?

It was 21, for not following Party whip. Not idealogical reasons.
Why did Corbyn expel Campbell but not Kinnock for voting for Libdems?
And Boris was proven right. He made correct substitutions. Corbyn didnt and lost.

 

[OxygenJames]

Cummings managed to drive a wedge between opposition parties, that's why.

more would have voted for them to stop the tories if Swinson and Corbyn could do a deal.

It was Cummings? Ha. I think they drove their own wedge - no way was Swinson going to get into bed with Corbyn. The Remain vote got split. Cummings did it? Ha. I don't think so.

 

[OxygenJames]

Putin should give him a medal

We're back to the Russians idea are we? Dear oh dear.

 

[OxygenJames]

why did Boris throw the 27 out then?

Because they ignored the whip! Doh. It's called party discipline. Something Labour could learn from.

 

[OxygenJames]

Really are you saying it isn’t true?

If it came from the Independent I'd say the chances are about 50/50. At best.

 

[50Hertz]

The Democrats are doing a first class job of ensuring that Donald Trump will secure a second presidential term. Carry on continuing.

 

[oldgroaner]

If you don't think you can change it why even bother thinking about it?

My point exactly, shouldn;t you be aiming this at the other Labour party member?

So it had nothing to do with Corbyn and all down to Tory slurs and misinformation.

With that sort of analysis you really are looking at another 10 years of Tory rule.

They wont last that long

 

[oldgroaner]

If it came from the Independent I'd say the chances are about 50/50. At best.

It didn't

 

[oldgroaner]

It's already done that. In April (or there abouts) the government was slipping towards some kind of Brexit fudge or no Briexit at all - May and her Remain cohorts failing to act on the 2016 result even flirting with a second ref. Then what happened? Farage stepped back into the ring - formed the Brexit party - and all minds were very suddenly fully focussed once more.

The rest is history - ie they won the EU elections and effectively forced May out of office - job done!

Farage is my politician of the decade - by a country mile - who else has so transformed this country's politics than him? Knighthood/place in the Lords is the least he should be getting.

You mean a load of mugs threw money at him

 

[oldgroaner]

It's already done that. In April (or there abouts) the government was slipping towards some kind of Brexit fudge or no Briexit at all - May and her Remain cohorts failing to act on the 2016 result even flirting with a second ref. Then what happened? Farage stepped back into the ring - formed the Brexit party - and all minds were very suddenly fully focussed once more.

The rest is history - ie they won the EU elections and effectively forced May out of office - job done!

Farage is my politician of the decade - by a country mile - who else has so transformed this country's politics than him? Knighthood/place in the Lords is the least he should be getting.

politician? saboteur is the correct description

 

[OxygenJames]

It didn't [come from the Independent - ed]

huh? This is the link you sent:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-far-right-extremists-join-conservatives-support-britain-first-a9252201.html

Which is from the Independent.

What's gotten into you?

 

[oldgroaner]

'Stop Brexit Man' finally admits defeat after ruining news broadcasts

The Welsh coin collector has become part of the landscape in Westminster, with his colourful ensemble of a grey top hat and an EU flag cape regularly seen lurking in front of TV cameras.

mol.im

Thought you were Scottish OG...
I, ve been a member of Labour party since 1979.
Kettles and black pots spring to mind OG over telling me to stop moaning.
What have you been doing on here past 4 years???
Lets hope event you reported produces change. Blair sounded very good on tv tonight..
In meantime I, ll quite moaning.

So you're a member of the Labour Party? I don't remember you mentioning that before, but it does explain why you keep going on about them
New Labour is dead but it won't lie down?

 

[OxygenJames]

politician? saboteur is the correct description

Farage is what prevented any real far-right parties getting a foothold. This country remains pretty much the only EU country where the far right has not ever held power or had significant support. He deserves a knighthood for keeping that tradition alive.