Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Great news for you OJ
Thousands of extra fascists coming to join your party
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-far-right-extremists-join-conservatives-support-britain-first-a9252201.html
Britain First urges supporters to join Conservative Party 'to make Boris Johnson's leadership more secure'

Far-right group's chief of staff is among extremists who claim to have become Tory members

Isn't this rather jolly? birds of a feather flock together!

 

[Zlatan]

You may not realise it but without intending to be, that is what you are.
Your choice well and good.

You, ve lost me with that. I think you assume being called not proper labour is an insult? I, m afraid the days of us and them politics are gone OG. Its exactly mistake Labour /Corbyn made. The country doesnt want a Union dominated, and by definition of that a left wing, party to lead it. Call it what you want, do or dont call it labour, but if you want a party to oppose Tories we need a second party. If Labour want to be that second party then change they must, if they dont either another one will rise to take Labour's place or Tories will go unopposed.
If left want to be part of that movement they must welcome, probably not Blair, but polticians of his ilk. If they dont the left will simply not be represented.
Without doubt a party will emerge towards centre to challenge Tories. I, d like to see the left as part of that party. Perhaps you dont.

 

[Zlatan]

Great news for you OJ
Thousands of extra fascists coming to join your party
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-far-right-extremists-join-conservatives-support-britain-first-a9252201.html
Britain First urges supporters to join Conservative Party 'to make Boris Johnson's leadership more secure'

Far-right group's chief of staff is among extremists who claim to have become Tory members

Isn't this rather jolly? birds of a feather flock together!

The labour party should learn from it. Tories already cover a much wider spectrum of ideologies than current labour. If you arent a paid up member of Unite, well you arent Labour are you.?

 

[Woosh]

Isn't it strange how little comment appears in the press about the Brexit Party?
You remember, the one that promised to revolutionise politics?

wasn't there some rumour that Farage is bored with his BXP business and wants to start a new business called the Reform party?

 

[oldgroaner]

Nigel Farage has pledged to re-brand the Brexit Party as the 'Reform Party' following their failure to gain a single seat in last week's election.
@eddiemair
asks: Has the Brexit Party served its purpose?
Certainly but Nigel's pension wheeze can allways do to mug a few more suckers.
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1207367569151315972/photo/1

 

[oldgroaner]

The labour party should learn from it. Tories already cover a much wider spectrum of ideologies than current labour. If you arent a paid up member of Unite, well you arent Labour are you.?

Once again you really try to make out that Labour has to conform to your stereotyping, and at the same time complain about mine?
Have you totally forgotten that the Labour Party was formed as the political instrument of the Unions because on one represented the working class?
That is the simple truth.

 

[flecc]

Without doubt a party will emerge towards centre to challenge Tories.

We've had one for decades, currently named the LibDems.

They are the centre party, so why aren't all of you voting for them when you all say that's the answer?

Please don't use the excuse that they don't have the right people. If you all voted for them you'd have hundreds to choose from to be PM or ministers.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Once again you really try to make out that Labour has to conform to your stereotyping, and at the same time complain about mine?
Have you totally forgotten that the Labour Party was formed as the political instrument of the Unions because on one represented the working class?
That is the simple truth.

And times change, Labour must either change with them or go the way of Betamax video recorders.
And Labour should not exist to any stereotyping. Thats my point. They are currently existing to some outdated left wing idealism reinforced by such as yourself and flecc.

 

[Zlatan]

We've had one for decades, currently named the LibDems.

They are the centre party, so why aren't all of you voting for them when you all say that's the answer?

Please don't use the excuse that they don't have the right people. If you all voted for them you'd have hundreds to choose from to be PM or ministers.
.

Ask remainers. Not leavers. But you have a point, why didnt Remainers vote Libdem? As a leaver I havent a clue, well, apart from Jo Swinson in 2019 and Vince Cable in 2017...???
A party doesnt only have to have right manifesto it has to have personell capable of delivering. I suspect Libdem lost out on latter. Labour on both.
Perhaps Flecc could tell you why he didnt vote Libdem when they were ones offering Remain..???

 

[oldgroaner]

And times change, Labour must either change with them or go the way of Betamax video recorders.
And Labour should not exist to any stereotyping. Thats my point. They are currently existing to some outdated left wing idealism reinforced by such as yourself and flecc.

And you are trying to project right wing tendencies on them? why not vote for someone else?

 

[Zlatan]

And you are trying to project right wing tendencies on them? why not vote for someone else?

No, I am not. I, m trying to keep the Labour party in existence as second party. It needs to change, not destroy itself. By all means keep Unite, Momentum, Corbyn but have courage of their convictions and unify with the rest, the Blairs, Campbells and Kinnocks. They all have their place.
So whats your solution. Just carry on and wait for Tories to implode on rigours of Brexit. I seem to remember that been said a year or so ago. Look where it has got Labour party.
If Labour cant unify their Party what chance have they of unifying country, even if they got power, which is never going to happen.

 

[oldgroaner]

Not everyone is panicking it seems
"
According to Jim Pickard of the Financial Times membership has grown by 24,000 in the last week.
It follows calls from Labour figures for those previously members to rejoin to reshape the party and to have a say in the leadership race that will take place before Jeremy Corbyn departs in March.

 

[oldgroaner]

No, I am not. I, m trying to keep the Labour party in existence as second party. It needs to change, not destroy itself. By all means keep Unite, Momentum, Corbyn but have courage of their convictions and unify with the rest, the Blairs, Campbells and Kinnocks. They all have their place.
So whats your solution. Just carry on and wait for Tories to implode on rigours of Brexit. I seem to remember that been said a year or so ago. Look where it has got Labour party.
If Labour cant unify their Party what chance have they of unifying country, even if they got power, which is never going to happen.

My solution? wait patiently, what is yours? whinge for the next five years? fat lot of good that will do, admittedly mine won't change anything, except for the fact it is a far more sensible way of dealing with something I cant change.
I really don't see this Brexit farce working out well for the Conservatives.
And in the meantime, either quite whining or join the labour party as a member to work for change.

 

[Zlatan]

'Stop Brexit Man' finally admits defeat after ruining news broadcasts

The Welsh coin collector has become part of the landscape in Westminster, with his colourful ensemble of a grey top hat and an EU flag cape regularly seen lurking in front of TV cameras.

mol.im

Thought you were Scottish OG...
I, ve been a member of Labour party since 1979.
Kettles and black pots spring to mind OG over telling me to stop moaning.
What have you been doing on here past 4 years???
Lets hope event you reported produces change. Blair sounded very good on tv tonight..
In meantime I, ll quite moaning.

 

[OxygenJames]

Isn't it strange how little comment appears in the press about the Brexit Party?
You remember, the one that promised to revolutionise politics?

It's already done that. In April (or there abouts) the government was slipping towards some kind of Brexit fudge or no Briexit at all - May and her Remain cohorts failing to act on the 2016 result even flirting with a second ref. Then what happened? Farage stepped back into the ring - formed the Brexit party - and all minds were very suddenly fully focussed once more.

The rest is history - ie they won the EU elections and effectively forced May out of office - job done!

Farage is my politician of the decade - by a country mile - who else has so transformed this country's politics than him? Knighthood/place in the Lords is the least he should be getting.

 

[OxygenJames]

I've already mentioned how in my constituency we swung a long standing marginal into a big 6000 plus majority for Labour in 2017, despite the candidate, Sarah Jones being new and untried.

In this 2019 election we returned her to power with an even bigger majority over the Tory candidate, against the trend elsewhere. The difference is explained in Sarah's post election message to us all and the following passage shows that it was the Tory and media smears that lost the election for Labour elsewhere, not Corbyn personally or his policies. As Sarah explains, we didn't suffer from that behaviour locally in Croydon Central:

"I am very proud that in Croydon Central we secured an increased majority of Labour votes. But the national result was devastating for the Labour Party. I want to apologise on behalf of our party to those across our community who wanted and needed a Labour government – a government which would act to solve homelessness, reform our broken welfare system and reverse the billions in cuts to our schools, police and health service which we suffered under ten years of Tory governments.

The Labour Party can, and must, rebuild. There are positive lessons from our campaign in Croydon Central – we united a diverse community of leavers and remainers, rich and poor, young and old. We did it by listening closely to the concerns of our whole community and speaking back with sensible, practical solutions to the problems you wanted fixed.

As I’ve said previously, there will be times when we disagree but I’m proud that in Croydon on the whole we disagree in good faith and without resorting to abuse. I want to thank the candidates for other parties for not engaging in mudslinging or personal attacks.

I’m back in Westminster today and have just been ‘sworn in’, meaning I am officially your MP once again. I’m ready to continue holding the government to account as Shadow Housing Minister and opposing the looming threat of a Tory hard Brexit which is already driving down the value of the pound."

View attachment 33420

Sarah Jones MP

So it had nothing to do with Corbyn and all down to Tory slurs and misinformation.

With that sort of analysis you really are looking at another 10 years of Tory rule.

 

[OxygenJames]

'Stop Brexit Man' finally admits defeat after ruining news broadcasts

The Welsh coin collector has become part of the landscape in Westminster, with his colourful ensemble of a grey top hat and an EU flag cape regularly seen lurking in front of TV cameras.

mol.im

Thought you were Scottish OG...
I, ve been a member of Labour party since 1979.
Kettles and black pots spring to mind OG over telling me to stop moaning.
What have you been doing on here past 4 years???
Lets hope event you reported produces change. Blair sounded very good on tv tonight..
In meantime I, ll quite moaning.

OG moan? Give over.

 

[OxygenJames]

My solution? wait patiently, what is yours? whinge for the next five years? fat lot of good that will do, admittedly mine won't change anything, except for the fact it is a far more sensible way of dealing with something I cant change.
I really don't see this Brexit farce working out well for the Conservatives.
And in the meantime, either quite whining or join the labour party as a member to work for change.

If you don't think you can change it why even bother thinking about it?

 

[OxygenJames]

Great news for you OJ
Thousands of extra fascists coming to join your party
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-far-right-extremists-join-conservatives-support-britain-first-a9252201.html
Britain First urges supporters to join Conservative Party 'to make Boris Johnson's leadership more secure'

Far-right group's chief of staff is among extremists who claim to have become Tory members

Isn't this rather jolly? birds of a feather flock together!

The Independent? Figures.

 

[Woosh]

We've had one for decades, currently named the LibDems.

They are the centre party, so why aren't all of you voting for them when you all say that's the answer?

Please don't use the excuse that they don't have the right people. If you all voted for them you'd have hundreds to choose from to be PM or ministers.
.

Cummings managed to drive a wedge between opposition parties, that's why.

more would have voted for them to stop the tories if Swinson and Corbyn could do a deal.