Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

What a strange world we live in just spotted this incident in Hull being reported in London!
https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/crime/man-fighting-for-life-after-being-shot-by-police/

So it should be, shouted from the rooftops across the whole country.

We don't know about this one, but there have been far too many incidences of innocent people being shot dead by the police. There's been a number in London, including a man carrying a table leg for entirely legitimate reasons and an unarmed man shot dead at the wheel of his car simply because he was trying to drive away from the police. And those were far from being the worst. In the West Midlands they include a five year old boy shot dead in his bed.

 

[flecc]

So what if part of Labour is just right of centre. The spectrum covered shouldn't be cast in stone.

But that is not Labour, which is socialist and that can never be right of centre. Call it something else.

It doesn't matter if Labour never achieves power, since that will draw attention to the real outstanding problem. That we need proportional representation to represent all of our views.

I'll pass on being an MP. Only the nutters who believe they can represent most of the people try for that. I'd be happy to be the best dictator the world has ever known though, like all the other dictators thought they were!
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[oldgroaner]

Well I would hope so!. It is such an unusual occurance,it should make national news. It is when you reach a stage that it is normalised and no longer newsworthy , that you have to worry.

The fact that Hull was never mentioned by name when air raids were reported during the second world war has left a permanent legacy of surprise when Hull gets a mention.
To put that in context Hull doesn't even appear on signposts when coming in from the North until you are about ten miles away, despite being a large city, yet Goole about a tenth of the size appears long before that as does the Humber Bridge.
Hull has suffered from a lack of recognition it exists, for far longer than I have been alive, which will be the fate Brexit will bestow on this country internationally.
Thankfully they person involved has a chance of survival and there were no other victims.

We don't want to end up like America where one famous Sheriff gave these two timeless answers to a coroner.

1. Question; why were there 43 bullet holes in the perpetrator? Answer; I ran out of ammunition.
2. Question; Why does your report say "Died of natural causes?" Answer; With 43 bullet holes in you , naturally you die!

 

[oldgroaner]

I do hope you are right but assuming you are simply puts us back to a pre election situation whilst there is no credible second party. The last 18 months will just be repeated.
Had we had a credible, capable second party over last 3 years they would now be in power.

Look at it this way; now there is an opportunity for the Experiment of "going it alone" to prove itself or fail.
The only part that worries me is that I am unlikely to live long enough to see the outcome.
Nevertheless i do not doubt that the long term future is for Europe to become a superstate of which we are an important part.
What this election has proved is simply that the powers of persuasion that can be brought to bear on the population are, for many, too seductive to resist.
For those taken in I have little sympathy, for those who are not it's sad, but nothing lasts forever.
What does make me concerned is the likelihood of public disappointment resulting in civil unrest, and this election result has actually made that much more likely , as those who deserted labour have no real loyalty to the Conservatives and if they don't see the improvements promised a second time, they are unlikely to wait patiently for another Election to come along, especially as they have been duped twice by the same people.
And they are already disappointed with our version of representational democracy.
For how can it be representational, when 54% voted for remain parties and yet have no one fighting their corner?
All the ingredients are there for very rocky times ahead.
Brexit will move past the celebrations stage into something else entirely, there will be no healing of the divisions unless Boris makes a really excellent job of running a society people are expecting.
Anyone care to quote the odds on that after his previous job performances and the character of the man?

 

[oldgroaner]

Barrel scraping alert.

Not from my remarks, certainly from yours, imagine putting your faith in Boris of all people, Sacked twice for lying, failed as london Mayor and Foreign secretary, and with a list of character flaws as long as your arm.
Only an idiot would admire and employ such a man even as a menial worker.
And he found his place as Cummings Glove puppet.

 

[50Hertz]

What a strange world we live in just spotted this incident in Hull being reported in London!
https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/crime/man-fighting-for-life-after-being-shot-by-police/

I heard that the filth had popped a cap into the ass of some bloke from Hull. I’m guessing the photo isn’t taken outside your house? I’d expect to see a disused toilet pan in the front garden being as a planter for winter pansies.

 

[oldgroaner]

I heard that the filth had popped a cap into the ass of some bloke from Hull. I’m guessing the photo isn’t taken outside your house? I’d expect to see a disused toilet pan in the front garden being as a planter for winter pansies.

Apparently two shots were fired, and for amusement only here is a something to make you smile.
Apprentice potters used to make one quarter scale toilet pans as part of their final year training, and these were immensely popular with visitors for the very purpose you described, albeit usually indoors, and often with a Bonsai tree in them!
Definitely middle class Kitsch appeal, and in colours to match your bathroom suite too!
They were so popular we had miniature plaster of paris moulds made so that we could deal with the demand.

 

[50Hertz]

So it should be, shouted from the rooftops across the whole country.

We don't know about this one, but there have been far too many incidences of innocent people being shot dead by the police. There's been a number in London, including a man carrying a table leg for entirely legitimate reasons and an unarmed man shot dead at the wheel of his car simply because he was trying to drive away from the police. And those were far from being the worst. In the West Midlands they include a five year old boy shot dead in his bed.

If a copper pointed a gun at me and asked me to put an object down so that it could be investigated, I’d comply. If I refused and / or levelled it at the officer, the likelihood is two shots in the chest.

Common sense has to apply in these instances.

 

[50Hertz]

Not from my remarks, certainly from yours, imagine putting your faith in Boris of all people, Sacked twice for lying, failed as london Mayor and Foreign secretary, and with a list of character flaws as long as your arm.
Only an idiot would admire and employ such a man even as a menial worker.
And he found his place as Cummings Glove puppet.

He was voted in as Mayor, twice. But of course, it was Russian Gamma Rays transmitted from space stations which created that result.

 

[flecc]

If a copper pointed a gun at me and asked me to put an object down so that it could be investigated, I’d comply. If I refused and / or levelled it at the officer, the likelihood is two shots in the chest.

Common sense has to apply in these instances.

Two of those I quoted the unarmed persons weren't carrying anything to be put down. The little boy was just waking up in his bed.

The common sense that needed to be applied was that of the police officers.
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[oldgroaner]

He was voted in as Mayor, twice. But of course, it was Russian Gamma Rays transmitted from space stations which created that result.

And duly ballsed the job up, so your post is that idiots are good at getting elected?
I'll agree to that

 

[flecc]

He was voted in as Mayor, twice. But of course, it was Russian Gamma Rays transmitted from space stations which created that result.

No, it was gerrymandering that created that result. Once the huge damage he did as Mayor was revealed, he and the Tories had no further chance. We've had a far better Mayor representing Labour since, undoing the damage which I've detailed at length in this thread.

Johnson was a terrible and costly mayor, though the Tory propaganda machine still tells those who don't know like yourself that he was excellent.
.

 

[50Hertz]

Two of those I quoted the unarmed persons weren't carrying anything to be put down. The little boy was just waking up in his bed.

The common sense that needed to be applied was that of the police officers.
.

The boy was shot many years ago as a result of negligence/ poor training. Training and procedures are very different today. That type of accident wouldn’t happen.

 

[Woosh]

What this election has proved is simply that the powers of persuasion that can be brought to bear on the population are, for many, too seductive to resist.

Bojo won many seats from labour but did not win many new voters, so what does it say? it says that remainers are divided, at least in those seats where Labour lost to tories and in the country at large, some 20% of Labour voters do not trust Corbyn, they switched to LibDems, Green, PC.
Until Labour replaces Corbyn with someone they can trust, we are stuck with a conservative government.

 

[OxygenJames]

The Americans will be pleased

Yes anybody who sells stuff to the NHS will be happy. That's how it works. They (the NHS) needs stuff so they go shopping to buy stuff. The more people offering them stuff the better deal they can get. That's called market capitalism.

The alternative is only one place offering them stuff.

At a fixed price.

We all know how that tends to turn out.

 

[OxygenJames]

But the chumps have voted in Johnson

You're never going to win them back like that. And that's what you and Labour have to do. Win those people back. And you won't do it by insulting them. You have to come up with better arguments. Because so far you're all using losing ones.

 

[OxygenJames]

The Labour party is a Socialist party dedicated to creating a socialist society, representing through the unions and elections the mass of the people. It was founded by James Keir Hardy to do just that.

Just as the Conservative and Unionist party was founded to maintain conservatism and the union of Great Britain and the United Kingdom.

Neither should abducted and misrepresented on the whim of one man like Tony Blair. A newcomer with a new idea should stand on that alone, just as James Keir Hardy honestly did.
.

You need a completely new vision of what it means to be 'socialist'. The one you have is outdated. No wonder you keep losing (and then blaming the stupid people who voted).

Will you ever learn?

How many more years of Tory rule do you need before the penny drops?

 

[OxygenJames]

Bojo won many seats from labour but did not win many new voters, so what does it say? it says that remainers are divided, at least in those seats where Labour lost to tories and in the country at large, some 20% of Labour voters do not trust Corbyn, they switched to LibDems, Green, PC.
Until Labour replaces Corbyn with someone they can trust, we are stuck with a conservative government.

Somebody is getting the idea.

 

[oldgroaner]

You're never going to win them back like that. And that's what you and Labour have to do. Win those people back. And you won't do it by insulting them. You have to come up with better arguments. Because so far you're all using losing ones.

What a joke, it's simply a matter of waiting till the Brexit bombs and it hurts their wallets, they'll react in ways you won't like.
They have acted like idiots, and since they have proved to be proof against reasoning after their first mistake, what is the point of trying to protect their feelings from being told the truth?
It won't make any difference, they will find out soon enough, and be very angry they were duped twice.

 

[oldgroaner]

You need a completely new vision of what it means to be 'socialist'. The one you have is outdated. No wonder you keep losing (and then blaming the stupid people who voted).

Will you ever learn?

How many more years of Tory rule do you need before the penny drops?

Conservative rule? what conservative rule? this lot are a rabble, led by Lobby groups masquerading as institutes that will soon fight like cats among themselves to carve up the loot.