Brexit, for once some facts.

[50Hertz]

Just laughed at a Labour MP being interviewed on LBC. He’s saying they need to “sit down and have a conversation about where the GE went wrong for them. “

1) How about bat-**** crazy policies made up on a whim that were going to crash the economy and people didn’t really like anyway.

2) Bile spitting momentum activists pulling Corbyn’s strings.

There’s the first two agenda items to get them going.

 

[Zlatan]

Then you haven't read the Conservatine manifesto the pledge has been dropped

Which pledge and where is it reported dropped.
Are you talking about license fees or care for elderly.
It was a serious question OG.
The conservative manifesto wasnt as good as Coebyn's this time. It was very vague.

 

[oldgroaner]

Which pledge and where is it reported dropped.

If you can't be bothered to read my post of a day or so ago, I can't be bothered to enlighten you.
The information is there, why not go back and look?
That is an example of the sort of "lack of due diligence" that fuelled Brexit

 

[flecc]

Which pledge and where is it reported dropped.

BBC licence fees.

Instead of scrapping it it's now been reduced to merely switching the same fines for not having a licence from being a criminal offence to being a civil one.

In other words no difference for the viewer and listener, it still has to be paid.
.

 

[daveboy]

BBC licence fees.

Instead of scrapping it it's now been reduced to merely switching the same fines for not having a licence from being a criminal offence to being a civil one.

In other words no difference for the viewer and listener, it still has to be paid.
.

Might even be worse...the burden of proof for a civil claim is less.

 

[Zlatan]

He won't because he daren't. They've already backtracked anyway.
.

No they have not. He is proposing decriminalising non payment, which is more or less same.
Agreed re not mentioning Tories expelling MPs but
A) I voted for Corbyn.
B) Tories won, labour needed votes Campbell and Champion took with them.
C) Tory party isnt split like labour.
D) Is Tory poor behaviour now the ideal to aim for? We expect Tories to be intolerant of opposing views. Labour should and need more than ever to embrace them.

Its too easy for you to blame media, Scotland, Blair, New Labour blah blah blah. But by that explanation there is never any chance of labour getting in power. Why cant you accept Labour need to modernise, change and if not move to centrist at least accept them in their midst.
There should be and is room within labour to accomodate all those left of centre. Not just those Unite see as acceptable. Get Campbell back on board, bring in Blair. They cant do worse for goodness sake.

 

[Zlatan]

If you can't be bothered to read my post of a day or so ago, I can't be bothered to enlighten you.
The information is there, why not go back and look?
That is an example of the sort of "lack of due diligence" that fuelled Brexit

You have mentioned license fees and care for elderly. Would have been far easier to answer the reasonable question reasonably rather than have your rant.

 

[oldgroaner]

Just laughed at a Labour MP being interviewed on LBC. He’s saying they need to “sit down and have a conversation about where the GE went wrong for them. “

1) How about bat-**** crazy policies made up on a whim that were going to crash the economy and people didn’t really like anyway.

2) Bile spitting momentum activists pulling Corbyn’s strings.

There’s the first two agenda items to get them going.

And the Conservative's performance on the economy?
“To succeed we need a strong economy” says Rishi Sunak, whose party has brought us to 0% growth, £1.8 trillion in debt and a Brexit likely to knock 4-6% more off growth.

And here we are today , less people voted for pro Brexit parties than against them and yet, Brexit hits flank speed with the most inept government of cheats, liars and buffoons, led by the biggest liar of them all. and you complain about Corbyn?
What are you thinking of?
answer this
How about bat-**** crazy policies made up on a whim that ARE going to crash the economy and people don't comprehend the consequences of anyway?
So much so that Brexit was a protest vote against the Conservatives ?
It's really Hilarious in a suicidally mad way

 

[oldgroaner]

No they have not. He is proposing decriminalising non payment, which is more or less same.
Agreed re not mentioning Tories expelling MPs but
A) I voted for Corbyn.
B) Tories won, labour needed votes Campbell and Champion took with them.
C) Tory party isnt split like labour.
D) Is Tory poor behaviour now the ideal to aim for? We expect Tories to be intolerant of opposing views. Labour should and need more than ever to embrace them.

Its too easy for you to blame media, Scotland, Blair, New Labour blah blah blah. But by that explanation there is never any chance of labour getting in power. Why cant you accept Labour need to modernise, change and if not move to centrist at least accept them in their midst.
There should be and is room within labour to accomodate all those left of centre. Not just those Unite see as acceptable. Get Campbell back on board, bring in Blair. They cant do worse for goodness sake.

I wouldn't take a bet on item C) if I was you

 

[Zlatan]

I wouldn't take a bet on item C) if I was you

Would be easier if you answered the question. The one about Boris reducing care for elderly? Which manifesto pledge has been broken already? Evidence?
(Scrapping license fees certainly wasnt a pledge, well I didnt see it)

 

[oldgroaner]

You have mentioned license fees and care for elderly. Would have been far easier to answer the reasonable question reasonably rather than have your rant.

Ok. I accept that was just me feeling a bit off, a Migraine isn't helping, so an apology is due to you.

 

[Zlatan]

I wouldn't take a bet on item C) if I was you

OG, Tories are in power with an 80 majority. They are more united than in 50 years.

 

[Zlatan]

Ok. I accept that was just me feeling a bit off, a Migraine isn't helping, so an apology is due to you.

No problem. No apology needed. Its only banter. I, ve said worse.
But thanks all same.

 

[oldgroaner]

What a strange world we live in just spotted this incident in Hull being reported in London!
https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/crime/man-fighting-for-life-after-being-shot-by-police/

 

[flecc]

There should be and is room within labour to accomodate all those left of centre. Not just those Unite see as acceptable.

There is, just look at all those majority Blairite MPs that were in their opposition. Corbyn and McDonnell made no attempt to expel them from the party. The problem was always those Blairite MPs refusing to discuss and compromise, instead maintaining an internal opposition.

Get Campbell back on board, bring in Blair. They cant do worse for goodness sake.

I'm perfectly happy with Blair being back in charge of a party or in government, just so long as he didn't call it Labour.

The Labour party is a Socialist party dedicated to creating a socialist society, representing through the unions and elections the mass of the people. It was founded by James Keir Hardy to do just that.

Just as the Conservative and Unionist party was founded to maintain conservatism and the union of Great Britain and the United Kingdom.

Neither should abducted and misrepresented on the whim of one man like Tony Blair. A newcomer with a new idea should stand on that alone, just as James Keir Hardy honestly did.
.

 

[flecc]

OG, Tories are in power with an 80 majority. They are more united than in 50 years.

Only by the temporary euphoria of winning the GE.

The rifts will soon reappear.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG, Tories are in power with an 80 majority. They are more united than in 50 years.

Actually not so there are at least two separate camps, MAGA and one opposed to it
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/13/victory-for-boris-johnsons-all-new-tories
"
Yet the Tories’ mighty new coalition is sure to come under strain. With its mix of blue collars and red trousers, the new party is ideologically incoherent. The northern votes are merely on loan. To keep them Mr Johnson will have to give people what they want—which means infrastructure, spending on health and welfare, and a tight immigration policy. By contrast, the Tories’ old supporters in the south believe that leaving the EU will unshackle Britain and usher in an era of freewheeling globalism. Mr Johnson will doubtless try to paper over the differences. However, whereas Mr Trump’s new coalition in America has been helped along by a roaring economy, post-Brexit Britain is likely to stall.

Any vulnerabilities in the Tories’ new coalition will be ruthlessly found out by the trials ahead. Brexit will formally happen next month, to much fanfare. Yet the difficult bit, negotiating the future relationship with Europe, lies ahead. The hardest arguments, about whether to forgo market access for the ability to deregulate, have not begun. Mr Johnson will either have to face down his own Brexit ultras or hammer the economy with a minimal EU deal."

And of course any economic failure would be very dodgy to say the least!

 

[Danidl]

What a strange world we live in just spotted this incident in Hull being reported in London!
https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/crime/man-fighting-for-life-after-being-shot-by-police/

Well I would hope so!. It is such an unusual occurance,it should make national news. It is when you reach a stage that it is normalised and no longer newsworthy , that you have to worry.

 

[Zlatan]

There is, just look at all those majority Blairite MPs that were in their opposition. Corbyn and McDonnell made no attempt to expel them from the party. The problem was always those Blairite MPs refusing to discuss and compromise, instead maintaining an internal opposition.



I'm perfectly happy with Blair being back in charge of a party or in government, just so long as he didn't call it Labour.

The Labour party is a Socialist party dedicated to creating a socialist society, representing through the unions and elections the mass of the people. It was founded by James Keir Hardy to do just that.

Just as the Conservative and Unionist party was founded to maintain conservatism and the union of Great Britain and the United Kingdom.

Neither should abducted and misrepresented on the whim of one man like Tony Blair. A newcomer with a new idea should stand on that alone, just as James Keir Hardy honestly did.
.

Thats where we differ. I think you are an idealist. Think I, m more a realist.
I, d be perfectly happy with Blair or any Centrist mp in charge of Labour if they getbin power. Not for a moment am I saying there is no place for Unite, McCluskey and Corbyn. They should be part of a wider Labour party than the one you envisage.
So what if part of Labour is just right of centre. The spectrum covered shouldn't be cast in stone.
If we follow your doctrine we will never again see a Labour PM.
A very good post though flecc. You should be an MP.

 

[Zlatan]

Actually not so there are at least two separate camps, MAGA and one opposed to it
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2019/12/13/victory-for-boris-johnsons-all-new-tories
"
Yet the Tories’ mighty new coalition is sure to come under strain. With its mix of blue collars and red trousers, the new party is ideologically incoherent. The northern votes are merely on loan. To keep them Mr Johnson will have to give people what they want—which means infrastructure, spending on health and welfare, and a tight immigration policy. By contrast, the Tories’ old supporters in the south believe that leaving the EU will unshackle Britain and usher in an era of freewheeling globalism. Mr Johnson will doubtless try to paper over the differences. However, whereas Mr Trump’s new coalition in America has been helped along by a roaring economy, post-Brexit Britain is likely to stall.

Any vulnerabilities in the Tories’ new coalition will be ruthlessly found out by the trials ahead. Brexit will formally happen next month, to much fanfare. Yet the difficult bit, negotiating the future relationship with Europe, lies ahead. The hardest arguments, about whether to forgo market access for the ability to deregulate, have not begun. Mr Johnson will either have to face down his own Brexit ultras or hammer the economy with a minimal EU deal."

And of course any economic failure would be very dodgy to say the least!

I do hope you are right but assuming you are simply puts us back to a pre election situation whilst there is no credible second party. The last 18 months will just be repeated.
Had we had a credible, capable second party over last 3 years they would now be in power.