Brexit, for once some facts.

Wicky

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He didn’t vote against the deal. He voted against May to weaken her. He wanted and successfully took her job.

I suppose we shall see in the coming days whether my thoughts are correct.
BJ's version of Brexit then is all things to all men - depending when and who he said it to

Though I think Trump is expecting a firmer rather a softer Brexit...
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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my point is he assumes that blue collar workers will vote Labour, no matter what. That's simply no longer true since John Major's days.
He's a relic, way beyond retirement.
The next Labour leader will have to go back to seek support of blue collar workers, they are their true roots, not pipedreamers' socialism.
If Labour hierarchy dont wake up to this they will become an irrelevance. There was a young lady on tele, quit from being labour back bencher last year. Missed her name, but she was saying exactly this and that hierarchy had lost contact with her own community. She should have stayed and campaigned for change.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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my point is he assumes that blue collar workers will vote Labour, no matter what. That's simply no longer true since John Major's days.
He's a relic, way beyond retirement.
The next Labour leader will have to go back to seek support of blue collar workers, they are their true roots, not pipedreamers' socialism.
But while true that is exaggeration, you've made the point yourself how small that shift to the Tories is.

Your blue collar workers have often been tories ever since they became effectively middle class.

There's no such thing as pipedreamers socialism, there's either socialism or there's not.
.
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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The Brexit Party lost deposits in 165 constituencies, costing its failed prospective MPs £82,500. These people mostly forked out the money themselves so don't worry Nigel and chums went untouched.
At least when the final reckoning of Brexit's cost to individuals is reckoned, thy can say

"We were the first to be mugged in the cause, and role models for all who voted Conservative"
Exit the BXP the "Equal opportunities" Party that mugs it's own as smoothly as the next man or woman
(And the owner walks away with money the mugs donated)
Why with any luck at all Boris will put Fromage on the next honours list.
 
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Zlatan

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There is some merit in your cruise idea. I’ve never been on one, couldn’t stand the other passengers blowing off about who they know, or how successful they are. I’d probably go on a killing spree, so can’t go cruising.

But if it’s a cruise or nursing home / aided care, I’d probably take the cruise.
I thought exactly same. Took wife 4 years to get me on one. Was amazed, brilliant, I never once had to mix with anyone. Cruised all night, new Island every morning. Explore it during day. Table for 2 for dinner. My perfect holiday. No social interaction with any arseholes, wife did, with me. Really enjoyed it.
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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If Labour hierarchy dont wake up to this they will become an irrelevance. There was a young lady on tele, quit from being labour back bencher last year. Missed her name, but she was saying exactly this and that hierarchy had lost contact with her own community. She should have stayed and campaigned for change.
As I said earlier Labour have been neutered, and they are an irrelevance.
Events will derail Boris, be patient.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,373
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
There's no such thing as pipedreamers socialism, there's either socialism or there's not.
to me, Blair and Co are truer socialists than McDonell and Co who live in the past.
You should see how far communism in communist countries have evolved. Its Darwinism, evolve or die.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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But while true that is exaggeration, you've made the point yourself how small that shift to the Tories is.

Your blue collar workers have often been tories ever since they became effectively middle class.

There's no such thing as pipedreamers socialism, there's either socialism or there's not.
.
If Boris spends on NHS and keeps all his election promises (if) surely thats socialism. Vasey was saying on tele tonight BJ is left of centre in someways.
Like I said earlier what we call it is irrelevant, its what happens.
Its not the total number of voters BJ has attracted, its their previous nature. Like you, ve said, Tories have lost many votes in Scotland. They have all been replaced in England and Wales from previously Labour voters. If BJ is seen to be caring for those new voters not only will he keep them he will gain the remaining labour strongholds. Anything is possible when Tories win Durham, Rothervalley etc.
If BJ is remotely succesful labour will do even worse next time. Lets face it Tories have been far from successful yet they have just got an 80 majority.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Thats easy. You and me alike are too old and bad risks now. No chance of getting insurance to pay for care, but my daughters and grand kids should take it out if it becomes possible.
We, re fecked now OG. Just waiting for judgement day but hopefully enjoying the ride if possible.
As for paying for care homes. Feck that, cheaper to go on long time cruises. Feel bad one morning... Feed the sharks. Obviuosly partly said in jest but not completely.
Go look in Jamaica, Madeira, Goa. Cheap long term hotels, some of then full of old goats like us paying loads less than rip off care homes.
Madeira airport security gets blocked with Zimmers, walking sticks and boxes of medication.Airport geared up for it. Loads of porters pushing sick, lame or lazy through the place. Our hotel was much nore akin to a care home. And I aint joking. Honestly, check out prices.
But yes, we should have to take out insurance for care but like 50(our racistfking bastard) says, isnt it called National Insurance?? Not sure. Flecc will know, he knows everything.Some of it correct even, as opposed to yours and mine which is utter bo!! ox.
Good luck mate. I know you are struggling a bit.
Thanks for that kind thought
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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As I said earlier Labour have been neutered, and they are an irrelevance.
Events will derail Boris, be patient.
I agree with both comments but so what if Boris is derailed. He and Cummings will just put train back on rails and carry on. Your comment labour is neutered suggests same.
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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I thought exactly same. Took wife 4 years to get me on one. Was amazed, brilliant, I never once had to mix with anyone. Cruised all night, new Island every morning. Explore it during day. Table for 2 for dinner. My perfect holiday. No social interaction with any arseholes, wife did, with me. Really enjoyed it.
You might want to revisit your final two sentences..
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,197
30,602
to me, Blair and Co are truer socialists than McDonell and Co who live in the past.
You should see how far communism in communist countries have evolved. Its Darwinism, evolve or die.
But evolution doesn't come into it here. We've worked best politically when we've alternated the parties to some extent balancing the two extremes. Blair messed that up with his Tory light position and policies, setting us on the path to the heavy right wing bias we have now. That's why the Tories want his ilk back again and hate Corbyn so much.

Alternation in power between Tory right and Labour left to undo each other's damage is the best we can achieve with first past the post, but of course a better answer is proportional representation.
.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Southend on Sea
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But evolution doesn't come into it here.
evolution: Marx derives everything from exploitation of factory workers by factory owners, Keynes' solution is state intervention, Blair sees that there is a Third Way, practical re-evaluation of policies to achieve social justice for the many. Corbyn is still stuck between Marx and Keynes, the poor are victims of exploitation so the remedy is to tax the rich to give to the poor.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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UK prescriptions are currently recognised across the EU. Has anyone noticed when this will stop being the case? My current guess is 31/01/2020 but that is just an assumption. I further assume that no-one has thought to negotiate a permanent mutal prescription recognition agreement?

I know a considerable number of people who would rather buy a medicine from Germany for about £31 for 100 tablets rather than the UK price of just under £200 for 28 tablets. (No surprise there!) And it is that ridiculous price which all too often means they cannot get it prescribed on the NHS.
 

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