Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

"So, if I understand things correctly ( doubtful - who does ?) it is fully in order that those who oppose Brexit may use every parliamentary trick in the book - including connivance by the Speaker - to thwart implementing the democratic will of the electorate, but similar action by the government to do so is immediately labeled “undemocratic” “dictatorial” or even “unconstitutional” even when it can only be done via the constitution."

That's because ours is a parliamentary democracy. That fundamentally makes breaches of parliamentary procedure intended to obstruct our democratic system very wrong indeed.

Conversely not implementing the public referendum vote is perfectly acceptable, firstly because it was advisory in our system, secondly because parliament is sovereign.
.

 

[oyster]

I thought the same at the beginning. But now, I don’t think we have a stance. If we crash out, UK people will still buy goods from the EU, that’s what they are like. I don’t think their markets will be affected too much.

So that just leaves, what do we have that the EU can’t get from elsewhere? What is the UK’s USP which makes us indispensable?

The EU will hurt in a no deal situation, but not as much as they will hurt if they allow us to go, but still retaining all the good bits of membership. They will accept a no deal Brexit. There are going to be a lot of people up ** creek.

But the worst thing is, Johnson has no mandate whatsoever to take us out on no deal.

It is not as if we can all go elsewhere to purchase parts for our European cars, is it? Yes, the odd lamp or what have you, but a considerable number of parts is effectively only available from the manufacturers.

Perhaps if we had set up knock-off version factories and could then supply the EU27 with our cheap replacements...

 

[oyster]

When does the Queen's response get delivered?

 

[Fingers]

I thought the same at the beginning. But now, I don’t think we have a stance. If we crash out, UK people will still buy goods from the EU, that’s what they are like. I don’t think their markets will be affected too much.

So that just leaves, what do we have that the EU can’t get from elsewhere? What is the UK’s USP which makes us indispensable?

The EU will hurt in a no deal situation, but not as much as they will hurt if they allow us to go, but still retaining all the good bits of membership. They will accept a no deal Brexit. There are going to be a lot of people up ** creek.

But the worst thing is, Johnson has no mandate whatsoever to take us out on no deal.

Wow, tell me more nostroanus!

You clearly have the sight.

Will spurs beat arsenal on Sunday? Will I stop shitting water anytime soon? Are flares going to make a return or should I give them away to the charity shop?

 

[50Hertz]

Wow, tell me more nostroanus!

You clearly have the sight.

Will spurs beat arsenal on Sunday? Will I stop shitting water anytime soon? Are flares going to make a return or should I give them away to the charity shop?

The above is from a man who’s plan is to exchange a relatively stable future for one that shows very concerning signs of bringing hardship to millions. But thinks that if he wishes hard enough, things might be as good as they are now. Says it all really.

 

[oldgroaner]

It may take a while for people to get used to having a leader who is actually willing to lead - and when they say they will do something - they do it.

Which country were you referring to? Russia?We don't have such a leader, we have an impostor who represents only himself, and you will come to regret what he actually does, watch my prediction about May's deal come true.

 

[oldgroaner]

He said he'd get us out by 31.10.19.

And he said he'd do whatever it takes.

The man is being true to his word.

He has never been true to his word and you expect miracles?

 

[oldgroaner]

Wow, tell me more nostroanus!

You clearly have the sight.

Will spurs beat arsenal on Sunday? Will I stop shitting water anytime soon? Are flares going to make a return or should I give them away to the charity shop?

Will you ever be able to make a convincing case that Brexit is a good plan?
All we get is nonsense like this post out of you.
Ask leave to send us someone more capable to promote Brexit.

 

[Zlatan]

So did the Supreme Court also 'undermine' our stance?

On 3 November, three judges ruled Parliament must vote on when the process can begin. The case went to the Supreme Court in December but the 11 judges rejected the government's appeal by a majority of eight to three.

Speaking after the High Court verdict, Ms Miller told the BBC the case was about scrutinising the details of Brexit, such as "how we leave, how they're going to negotiate, the directions of travel the government will take".

Ms Miller added that the challenge was about more than Brexit.
"It is about any government, any prime minister, in the future being able to take away people's rights without consulting Parliament," she said.
"We cannot have a democracy like that. That isn't a democracy, that is verging on dictatorship."

Who is woman behind Brexit case?

Gina Miller has become the figurehead in the case to get Parliament to vote on the Brexit process - but who is she?

www.bbc.co.uk

Yes.

 

[oldgroaner]

More:

"So, if I understand things correctly ( doubtful - who does ?) it is fully in order that those who oppose Brexit may use every parliamentary trick in the book - including connivance by the Speaker - to thwart implementing the democratic will of the electorate, but similar action by the government to do so is immediately labeled “undemocratic” “dictatorial” or even “unconstitutional” even when it can only be done via the constitution."

What is happening is that parliament has voted and rejected no deal, and despite the fact that the PM is not free to act over and above the authority of parliament any more than anyone else, he is trying to outflank them expressing their will and authority.
If you want to express the will of the electorate all you have to do is put the question again to them.
That is democratic
Your post is in fact all Male Bovine Excrement, attempting to reverse reality into neo fascist propaganda.
By the way Johnson has no mandate to do any of this anyway

 

[Fingers]

The above is from a man who’s plan is to exchange a relatively stable future for one that shows very concerning signs of bringing hardship to millions. But thinks that if he wishes hard enough, things might be as good as they are now. Says it all really.

Hardship is already here for millions.

That’s why they voted out.

They want to see a different future. Good or bad. They want to explore other ideas.

When you have nothing you haven’t got much to lose.

You hard core remainists are going to be the real problem in the future as you will never accept democracy.

 

[Fingers]

What is happening is that parliament has voted and rejected no deal, and despite the fact that the PM is not free to act over and above the authority of parliament any more than anyone else, he is trying to outflank them expressing their will and authority.
If you want to express the will of the electorate all you have to do is put the question again to them.
That is democratic
Your post is in fact all Male Bovine Excrement, attempting to reverse reality into neo fascist propaganda.
By the way Johnson has no mandate to do any of this anyway

So what is your option if no deal is taken away?

 

[flecc]

So what is your option if no deal is taken away?

I'll give you my option.

Fully join in with all aspects of the EU and the euro.

With the cooperation inherent in that and the strength of the pound integrated into the euro, the EU and euro would enjoy a huge surge in international strength, benefitting all of us.
.

 

[oyster]

He has never been true to his word and you expect miracles?

BJ is such a liar and dissembler that doing what he said actually constitutes lying. After all, no-one ever expects that.

 

[50Hertz]

Hardship is already here for millions.

That’s why they voted out.

They want to see a different future. Good or bad. They want to explore other ideas.

When you have nothing you haven’t got much to lose.

You hard core remainists are going to be the real problem in the future as you will never accept democracy.

Very little is better than FA, and FA is where they are heading. I agree, wealth distribution needs looking at, but leaving the EU has nothing to do with that, in fact it will make it worse.

Johnson is on record as saying that the U.K. will not leave the EU without a deal. That was pre-referendum. Now he intends to shut down parliament so that he can take us out of the EU without a deal, unopposed. Where is the democracy in that?

There is no mandate for a no deal Brexit. Johnson has no mandate for a no deal Brexit. The country doesn’t want a no deal Brexit. If a no deal Brexit was put to the country , they’d reject it, and that is why a second referendum is so fiercely opposed. How democratic is that?

 

[Fingers]

I'll give you my option.

Fully join in with all aspects of the EU and the euro.

With the cooperation inherent in that and the strength of the pound integrated into the euro, the EU and euro would enjoy a huge surge in international strength, benefitting all of us.
.

Hahahaha

Good one.

I ask you a question you give an answer from another question.

I understand. There isn't an answer to my question.

That's why it has to be on the table.

 

[oldgroaner]

Hardship is already here for millions.

That’s why they voted out.

They want to see a different future. Good or bad. They want to explore other ideas.

When you have nothing you haven’t got much to lose.

You hard core remainists are going to be the real problem in the future as you will never accept democracy.

Fingers you suffer from delusions.
What we remain people suffer from is a grasp of reality
The reality is the Referendum was not merely criminally distorted, but sold on lies and promises to con the voters and even after that, resulted in far too small a margin to represent a realistic mandate.
Did People vote as you say?

"They want to see a different future. Good or bad. They want to explore other ideas."

They were not promised a bad future, they were promised utopia

Only someone utterly stupid would vote for a promise of worse times, is that what you are claiming?
This statement shows how little you understand history
"When you have nothing you haven’t got much to lose."

Compare the situation of a person living in a working class area these days to someone who did before we had the NHS, and the benefits modern people enjoy while technically in poverty as it is now defined seem like a life of luxury
Modern folk actually have a great deal to lose!
The truth is that the Referendum was presented as a simple popularity contest
Democracy was subverted by the criminally skewed referendum result, done by and for the puposes of the worst enemies of a struggling lower class that the nation has ever endured.

Voting for Leave has in fact handed the fate of the very people who wanted change for the better into the clutches of enemies out of their worst nightmares.

You simply do not understand what democracy is do you? because a decision was made
three years ago , lied about to present it as a big chance for better times that has now been abandoned in favour of we can get through this is will be better in fifty years?
It has to stand as if sacred?

Insanely you maintain the public now don't have a right to say yes or no, because you don't like the notion that somehow a prize you have won is being taken back from you?
And expressing their will again is thus a case of
"You hard core remainists are going to be the real problem in the future as you will never accept democracy."?

As I have posted often before, the trouble in the streets won't come from "Hard Core remainists" but the hard core leavers who realise a simple fact
"
"When you have nothing you haven’t got much to lose." is utterly wrong.

The last thing on Earth you want to lose is what "nothing" you do have.

 

[oldgroaner]

So what is your option if no deal is taken away?

Cancel Brexit, why do you have a problem with that when the "Brexit being beneficial"
idea has clearly failed.
The cheapest, best and obvious answer.
Cut our losses.

 

[Fingers]

Fingers you suffer from delusions.
What we remain people suffer from is a grasp of reality
The reality is the Referendum was not merely criminally distorted, but sold on lies and promises to con the voters and even after that, resulted in far too small a margin to represent a realistic mandate.
Did People vote as you say?

"They want to see a different future. Good or bad. They want to explore other ideas."

They were not promised a bad future, they were promised utopia

Only someone utterly stupid would vote for a promise of worse times, is that what you are claiming?
This statement shows how little you understand history
"When you have nothing you haven’t got much to lose."

Compare the situation of a person living in a working class area these days to someone who did before we had the NHS, and the benefits modern people enjoy while technically in poverty as it is now defined seem like a life of luxury
Modern folk actually have a great deal to lose!
The truth is that the Referendum was presented as a simple popularity contest
Democracy was subverted by the criminally skewed referendum result, done by and for the puposes of the worst enemies of a struggling lower class that the nation has ever endured.

Voting for Leave has in fact handed the fate of the very people who wanted change for the better into the clutches of enemies out of their worst nightmares.

You simply do not understand what democracy is do you? because a decision was made
three years ago , lied about to present it as a big chance for better times that has now been abandoned in favour of we can get through this is will be better in fifty years?
It has to stand as if sacred?

Insanely you maintain the public now don't have a right to say yes or no, because you don't like the notion that somehow a prize you have won is being taken back from you?
And expressing their will again is thus a case of
"You hard core remainists are going to be the real problem in the future as you will never accept democracy."?

As I have posted often before, the trouble in the streets won't come from "Hard Core remainists" but the hard core leavers who realise a simple fact
"
"When you have nothing you haven’t got much to lose." is utterly wrong.

The last thing on Earth you want to lose is what "nothing" you do have.

They win the vote by criminal means?

This is huge. It changed everything.

Please pm me the details and sources and o will pass them on to very enthusiastic journalists. I'm on news night today.

Let's make history!

Or are you lying again?

 

[oldgroaner]

Hahahaha

Good one.

I ask you a question you give an answer from another question.

I understand. There isn't an answer to my question.

That's why it has to be on the table.

Imagine anyone wanting to come to a table seeking a friendly and workmanlike realtionship where they need a trade deal more than the other side does and using threats.
That's why it has to be off the table
Only a complete idiot would do that except to please half wits at home by looking tough.
To that extent it could be seen to work.
You just have to hope the grown ups in the room are feeling charitable enough to show this scarecrow some pity and ignore what an idiot they are dealing with.
If he was facing me he would be luck to come away with a deal as good as May got!
My inclination would be to say Cheerio, close the door after you.