Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Lol at ‘letting them down’

Of course it's letting them down on the many continuing projects. They are budgeted on the basis of signed up to regular payments, and our departure leaves an income shortfall, permanent in some cases like Galileo.

And resorting to calling me insulting names just emphasises your ignorance of this subject.
.

 

[Fingers]

This is the trouble with Johnson, he's prone to come up with crackpot schemes as his time as London Mayor showed.

The danger is his cussed refusal to change his mind, as he showed by forging ahead with his daft new routemaster buses idea against all expert advice. They've proved hopelessly expensive and very unreliable, so we after receiving one hundred we tried cancelling them. Only to find the contract he signed guaranteed we bought 1000, so we are forced to buy 900 more which we neither want nor need.

The UK can't afford him, there's no shortage of clowns far cheaper to hire.
.

As flawed as those busses are. And I use them. You do not. They are still better and cheaper than buying in busses from Scandinavia

 

[Fingers]

Of course it's letting them down on the many continuing projects. They are budgeted on the basis of signed up to regular payments, and our departure leaves an income shortfall, permanent in some cases like Galileo.

And resorting to calling me insulting names just emphasises your ignorance of this subject.
.

It’s not letting them down financially.

Don’t be ridiculous
.
They are having a budget for future projects lined up in the next couple of months. And Galileo is a bad example. It’s been paid for, mostly by us and built by us. We are the ones losing out on that.

 

[flecc]

As flawed as those busses are. And I use them. You do not. They are still better and cheaper than buying in busses from Scandinavia

Absolute rubbish.

The first 600 cost us £354,000 per bus, the remainder now discounted bringing the final cost per bus to an estimated £349,500 when the contract is complete.

That doesn't include the £62,000 per bus per year for second operators when the rear platforms are open.

They are not cheaper than Scandinavian buses and certainly far from better. They've had long periods running very underpowered on diesel only, hundreds of their batteries have failed and had to be prematurely replaced, and they don't even meet Euro 6 emission standards that should have been in force over four years ago. That means their operation is actually illegal now in the congestion charge area due to the new low emission zone!

Being a bus passenger clearly doesn't impart sufficient knowledge.
.

 

[flecc]

Galileo is a bad example. It’s been paid for, mostly by us and built by us. We are the ones losing out on that.

Ignorance is bliss, Galileo has not been paid for by us since it's a permanent ongoing cost to regularly maintain by renewal its minimum of 24 satellites.

That is the shortfall that now must be met by others, money we are costing them.

Stick to subjects you understand.
.

 

[Fingers]

Absolute rubbish.

The first 600 cost us £354,000 per bus, the remainder now discounted bringing the final cost per bus to an estimated £349,500 when the contract is complete.

That doesn't include the £62,000 per bus per year for second operators when the rear platforms are open.

There are not cheaper than Scandinavian buses and certainly far from better. They've had long periods running very underpowered on diesel only, hundreds of their batteries have failed and had to be prematurely replaced, and they don't even meet Euro 6 emission standards that should have been in force over four years ago.

Being a bus passenger clearly doesn't impart sufficient knowledge.
.

I’m looking at the bigger picture.

The busses were made and designed in Britain. They have created a huge industry with thousands of jobs supporting hundreds of thousands homes. What would the cost be of providing employment and housing benefits to those people?

I accept they were expensive and had errors but bigger picture they are a net benefit to UK plc.

Stop the hating and see the upside.

The bendy busses were a bigger net loss and unlike the new route master they also blew up and caught fire on untold occasions.

Edit. And your point about second operators is ball ocks in every regard.

 

[Fingers]

Ignorance is bliss, Galileo has not been paid for by us since it's a permanent ongoing cost to regularly maintain by renewal its minimum of 24 satellites.

That is the shortfall that now must be met by others, money we are costing them.

Stick to subjects you understand.
.

No. Again, your blind hatred to all things UK and love for the EU skews your perspective. The tech was largely ours. The system has been costed and built. We are the net losers. The EU has to pay for the upkeep of course but that is like saying your washing machine is a burden because you have to pay for electricity to run it.

You are being ridiculous.

 

[Danidl]

No. Again, your blind hatred to all things UK and love for the EU skews your perspective. The tech was largely ours. The system has been costed and built. We are the net losers. The EU has to pay for the upkeep of course but that is like saying your washing machine is a burden because you have to pay for electricity to run it.

You are being ridiculous.

Fingers, I have had professional responsibility for some hi tech. The initial development cost is serious, thr manufacturing costs expensive, especially in small production runs which a family of say 30 satellites are. The maintenance costs grow with time and the operational costs remain either static or grow with inflation. What maintenance with a satellite ? you might reasonably ask . Sending Joe up with a spanner and a can of oil is not feasible. But when one satellite is showing signs of mis behaviour, it needs to be removed from the constellation, parked in a safe orbit or deliberately driven into a decaying orbit, and a replacement launched, with the appropriate codes loaded. Meanwhile new satellites have to be commissioned and paid for, for the next failure . Building one offs is more expensive than a batch run.
So no Flecc is not being ridiculous, he is just telling it like it is. If you have the opportunity talk with anyone involved in helicopter or jet fighter ,or even factory production maintenance.

 

[flecc]

I’m looking at the bigger picture.

So am I. The anticipated life of the new routemaster is 14 years only, when they'll be scrap as unreliable old tech. The original RT buses were in service in London for 40 years and were then sold to Hong Kong for useful cash. The original RM buses (routemasters) were in service for 49 years and many were also sold afterwards. I trust you can understand from this what a terrible deal the new routemaster is. Personally I can see them being scrapped even before 14 years of use, due to the greatly increased costs of battery replacement when those new buses are no longer being produced.

The busses were made and designed in Britain.

Technically not made in Britain but in Northern Ireland which is not in Britain but in the UK.

I accept they were expensive and had errors but bigger picture they are a net benefit to UK plc.

Far, far from a net benefit, see above.

The bendy busses were a bigger net loss and unlike the new route master they also blew up and caught fire on untold occasions.

Agreed, another poor very ill advised decision. But two wrongs do not make a right.
.

 

[flecc]

The system has been costed and built. We are the net losers. The EU has to pay for the upkeep of course but that is like saying your washing machine is a burden because you have to pay for electricity to run it.

You are being ridiculous.

It's you being ridiculous, the system has to be permanently completely renewed at intervals so the cost is an ongoing constant. To glibly refer to it as the electricity to run a washing machine is plain silly.

To repeat, we've thrown our part of that large ongoing cost at others, letting them down, which is why we are losing access to its higher capabilities. They are not depriving us of that, we are chosing to deprive ourselves with Brexit.
.

 

[flecc]

Edit. And your point about second operators is ball ocks in every regard.

Take it up with TfL, it's their figure, and it's entirely reasonable.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

This is where we are under the Tories

School asks BBC Children in Need to cover funding gap

East London primary seeks charity’s help with pastoral care after budget cuts

www.theguardian.com

Schools begging children in need for money to fund staff and thousands of others crowdfunding to get stuff like paper and glue.

Yet all we get is stuffed shirts talking about doing cocaine and heroin.

If only we had an opposition these idiots would be destroyed.

The way I dealt with finding issues when I was a school teacher was to start up a tuck shop - and the profits went to the Biology department (my department). The CPVE students ran the shop and learned about capitalism and how to make a profit (kids not being allowed out of school to buy sweets sure helped). Ah. Sweet memories.

 

[OxygenJames]

With comment:

Turkeys voting for Christmas.
.

That'll be me then. I've been paying my £2 a month to make sure I get a vote on this.

Go Boris!

 

[gray198]

letting them down by withdrawing unexpectedly.

3 years and counting???

 

[gray198]

listened to Boris's pitch for leader and thought it was good. However he is obviously deranged. He was talking in a positive way about this country and it's prospects. He surely can't be allowed to think that we have any good points and may succeed. Maybe he should come on here and get a good dose of negativity and gloom. That would sort him out

 

[flecc]

3 years and counting???

Irrelevant, as I said Galileo is a permanent ongoing cost which we signed up to continue paying, so the letdown is permanent. The other members will have to shoulder our share into the future.
.

 

[flecc]

listened to Boris's pitch for leader and thought it was good.

It was very good, that's his great strength. Unfortunately he cannot deliver, just as the Brexit promises he made could never be delivered, such as:

A good deal is easy to get.

We'll get £350 millions a week back from EU payments.

Trade deals are easy.

The EU will give in to us.

His new manifesto was full of the same hopelessly unfounded optimism in things that won't happen, but cleverly presented.

That's not being gloomy, simply being realistic.

And being right, as I was about Johnson's Brexit promises at the time.
.

 

[flecc]

Go Boris!

I wish he would.

As far away as possible.
.

 

[Fingers]

Take it up with TfL, it's their figure, and it's entirely reasonable.
.

I'd love to see a link for that. Because they stopped the idea of that years ago.

 

[flecc]

I'd love to see a link for that. Because they stopped the idea of that years ago.

I believe what you are thinking of is the discontinuation of the open platform use.

I'm not disputing that, nor is TfL , and that's why I didn't include it in the cost per bus. But it did cost that much at the outset and that cost from then adds to the total costs of this failed venture.

And of course the initial platform use limitation and later discontinuation made the whole venture pointless since it was the open platform that Johnson extolled, against all knowledgable advice.
.