Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Sadly that is very true. But honestly, have you seen anything in the last three years which gives you confidence that Nutjob May and the rest of our retards can run the country better than the EU. The EU are streets ahead of us in strategy, planning and negotiating. They have wiped the floor with us.

Our country is paralysed by incompetence in every area of public service. For decades we have been appointing people to top jobs in the basis of gender, sexual orientation, ethnic background, political outlook, in fact anything except talent. Over the last three years, we have been harvesting the rewards for our lunacy.

As you say, let’s just hand it all over to the EU. It can not possibly be worse than our present situation.

Halleluya!

 

[oldgroaner]

We are achieving something the Government can't do on here!
agreeing

 

[oldgroaner]

I think we ought have a petition for a referendum that includes the following

Leave
Stay
Close the Houses of Commons and the Lords and let the EU rule

Anyone care to hazard a guess how much that last option will save?

 

[Woosh]

Or similarly as I've posted previously. Since Germany has no trouble within the EU exporting worldwide and maintaining an economy in surplus, if we think we can exist outside, let's first do like Germany to prove it.

Then leave the EU if we prove it, or drop the idea if we can't.

Just leaving the EU without any idea whether we could succeed outside is and always has been madness.
.

the problem is Germany has a trade surplus, we have an endemic trade deficit of about 5%.

Since Margaret Thatcher's wilful vandalism of British industry, the UK economy has relied on “the kindness of strangers”. ... This is why Britain relies on cheapness: low taxes, low wages (which are not due to regain their pre-crash peak until 2025) and zero-hour contracts

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/brexit/2019/03/uk-needs-economic-and-constitutional-revolution

 

[flecc]

the problem is Germany has a trade surplus, we have an endemic trade deficit of about 5%.

That's the point of my post! we should do as Germany has first.

Then if we succeed, leave the EU knowing we'd be ok. If we fail as we probably would, remain in the EU.
.

 

[oyster]

Not the finest piece of prose... And could one year ever be long enough?

The UK needs a year-long extension on Brexit – to really take back control
Gordon Brown

We could gain an opt-out from the European elections and take the time to debate our future
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/30/uk-year-extension-brexit-take-back-control

 

[OxygenJames]

What I don't understand is why the Tory papers are allowed without anyone speaking out against them , to keep pushing the No deal scenario, yet never actually even bother to "sell" it to the faithful, is this based on the assumption that they are too thick to comprehend?

It is always presented as somehow the obvious and simple way out that remainers try to sabotage Brexit with.
No way will these papers reveal the true complexity that this arbitrary act will bring down on us.
What is in it for these people? what profit?

The Telegraph is pretty much on the 'Tory' side but they are far from trying to sell 'no-deal' as the answer.

 

[OxygenJames]

We are achieving something the Government can't do on here!
agreeing

Blimey.

 

[Danidl]

Strange that the best railways in the world are by far the nationalised ones and privately run ones have always included some of the worst.
.

I have always believed,and still do, that there are some utilities which are best managed by public ownership. Railways, water services, electricity distribution , National Security..Army,,Police,Prison Service, Industrial and Health standards, whereas there are any number of activities in manufacturing, commercial and retail, entertainment ,which are better in private hands.

 

[oyster]

I'd much rather have Grieve than his neighbouring MP, Baker:

Dominic Grieve loses confidence vote held by Beaconsfield Tories
Remain-supporting MP, who has said he felt ashamed of his party, rejected by members
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/30/dominic-grieve-loses-confidence-vote-held-by-beaconsfield-tories

 

[flecc]

I have always believed,and still do, that there are some utilities which are best managed by public ownership. Railways, water services, electricity distribution , National Security..Army,,Police,Prison Service, Industrial and Health standards, whereas there are any number of activities in manufacturing, commercial and retail, entertainment ,which are better in private hands.

Indeed, and it's why I'd be happy for Jeremy Corbyn to head a Labour government for a five year term, since he intends to nationalise rail and water utilities, a thoroughly good thing. Returning the prison system to government control would also be better than the mess we have now, but he's made no mention of that.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

leaving on WTO rules is not impossible. It's simply very costly if ill prepared, we'll wipe out out manufacturing and partly our agriculture, fish out the North Sea and English Channel. Cancel A50, have a new GE to confirm the mandate for leaving on WTO, prepare the country for Singapore style social provisions, have a framework of a deal with the EU on goods, services, fisheries and agriculture and an FTA with the USA ready to sign then leave on WTO.

And enjoy the Civil War that is generated when the NHS folds up
No thank you very much

 

[flecc]

Dominic Grieve loses confidence vote held by Beaconsfield Tories

Sad news.
.

 

[Danidl]

Not the finest piece of prose... And could one year ever be long enough?

The UK needs a year-long extension on Brexit – to really take back control
Gordon Brown

We could gain an opt-out from the European elections and take the time to debate our future
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/30/uk-year-extension-brexit-take-back-control

But there are rules, and the UK has to have elections to the EU Parliament in conformance with those rules. There is NO WAY at this stage that the EU will allow the UK to flaunt those rules, particularly if the reason is that it might cause a government party embarrassment. The EU will not have the prospect of its Parliament put in legally unsound position

 

[oyster]

But there are rules, and the UK has to have elections to the EU Parliament in conformance with those rules. There is NO WAY at this stage that the EU will allow the UK to flaunt those rules, particularly if the reason is that it might cause a government party embarrassment

I will be fascinated to see who stands, on what policies, if EU elections do go ahead.

Would be interesting if the results were very clearly brexit OR remain. (Though I doubt they would be clear enough to be unarguable.)

Ironically, in that way, such elections just might prove a way of making opinion known without a GE or another referendum.

 

[oyster]

Well, what a surprise... Making the cost of brexit even higher by negligence of other activities.

More than two-thirds of Defra staff moved to Brexit-related roles
Staff redeployed from other agencies as ex-government adviser says Brexit is bad for environment
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/30/defra-staff-brexit-related-roles

 

[50Hertz]

Brexit has proved a couple of truths.
For majority of time MPs are totally unneeded, redundant and neither productive or actually doing anything.
But when called upon to do something, even though with clear instructions, resources and systems in place they are totally incapable of achieving anything. Extremely well paid sophisticated unemployment for the lot of them. If I had my time again I, d go into politics. You can lie, mis represent the very people who got you there and pay your wages. You can be utterly incompetent.
How many other employers would tolerate this. None.
We should strive to reduce the number employed to govern us. Not build bigger more expensive gravy trains.
The lot of them have caused irreperable damage to our system of goverment.
Probably time to close Westminster, sack them all and tell Barnier, Tusk etal to get on with it. We could fund NHS with savings.

During her time as Home Secretary, May brought in many poorly though out police reforms. If those same reforms were applied to her today, she would be on an action plan to address underperformance, a staged plan which could lead to eventual dismissal and would very likely be under investigation for misconduct in public office. How does she get away with it?

 

[oldgroaner]

The Telegraph is pretty much on the 'Tory' side but they are far from trying to sell 'no-deal' as the answer.

Are they? I must have missed something like today's from page leader seemed in favour
"
Brexit day of reckoning

1. Premium Cabinet ministers tell May to 'embrace no deal' after third Brexit defeat in Parliament
   

   1. Cabinet ministers will attempt to take control of Brexit by telling Theresa May it is “time to embrace no deal” after her EU Withdrawal Agreement was rejected by MPs for a third time​

 

[oyster]

A series of book advertisements agues far better than most of the politicians:

Paths from the past: historians make sense of Brexit and our current political turmoil

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/mar/30/paths-past-historians-make-sense-brexit-world-today

 

[oyster]

Sad news.
.

Indeed.
The twittersphere, with its "we'll get you next" messages, doesn't half recall:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.​