Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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Another idiotic header in the Daily Mail
"RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: Let's revive the Bulldog spirit of World War Two, defy the Brexit Jeremiahs and dig for victory as we prepare to leave the EU

Mind you , a lot of folk live in flats these days
Just how pathetic can this leave propaganda get?

And it manages to be twisted people's worries into this

"There are widespread worries about panic buying if Britain leaves the EU with no deal in March. Petrified Remainers are already stocking up with emergency supplies.

Really? how corny can you get?

Here's a slogan for leave voters

"After Brexit , collect your Ration Book and keep guard over your Vegetable Patch with a Shotgun!"

And by the time your converted garden starts yielding vegetable you will be as slim as a racing rat, if not dead!

By the bye, why is such a situation even getting a passing mention?

What happened to
"There are no downsides to Brexit only considerable upsides?"
 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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The Daily Mail has "Gone for Broke" this morning
"Now do your Duty!
"If MPs back May's Brexit deal, we can leave the EU, unite the country and end the political paralysis holding Britain back. That's why the Daily Mail urges them to honour the result of the referendum – and demands they put our country first

As predicted fear has always worked for the Tory's in the past,I wonder where the notion this would "Unite the country" came from?
And what "country" she means?
Sadly, looks to me that there has been little positive in the direction of uniting the country. From an emotional direction, it feels as if every day something else happens to make the disunity worse. Reality is likely not to back that up, of course.
 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Another idiotic header in the Daily Mail
"RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: Let's revive the Bulldog spirit of World War Two, defy the Brexit Jeremiahs and dig for victory as we prepare to leave the EU

Mind you , a lot of folk live in flats these days
Just how pathetic can this leave propaganda get?

And it manages to be twisted people's worries into this

"There are widespread worries about panic buying if Britain leaves the EU with no deal in March. Petrified Remainers are already stocking up with emergency supplies.

Really? how corny can you get?

Here's a slogan for leave voters

"After Brexit , collect your Ration Book and keep guard over your Vegetable Patch with a Shotgun!"

And by the time your converted garden starts yielding vegetable you will be as slim as a racing rat, if not dead!

By the bye, why is such a situation even getting a passing mention?

What happened to
"There are no downsides to Brexit only considerable upsides?"
Uniting against a common foe is understandable. (Mind, I remember some stories about how selfishly some people acted during WW2.) I just do not see how we apply that to now where the deepest antagonism is within the country.

I am absolutely sure that many who are stockpiling voted to leave. Tarring only remainers as stockpilers is plain daft. (Given what we can readily see about those extreme surivalists in the USA, I suggest that the likelihood is that the most extreme leavers might also be the most extreme stockpilers.)
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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what do you think the vote tonight is going to be?
Can TM survive this vote?
Will JC trigger his no confidence motion?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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In order:

No
Yes
Yes

Then May will win the No Confidence vote.

Within the allowed three days she'll announce that she's going back to the EU for further help, so can then take as long as she likes until the final leave day. She'll probably say she'll come back to the Commons in 14 days.

Stop Press. Dominic Raab has just resigned.
.
 
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flecc

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Raab's resignation was mistakenly announced on the 1pm radio news. See this link.

I can't guess at the numbers and margin rejecting, but don't think it will as bad for May as many thought.
.
 
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oldgroaner

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Ooer! the Tory party are having fun, aren't they?
Devastating warning from former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove and former Chief of the Defence Staff Lord Guthrie. “The Withdrawal Agreement...would place control of aspects of our national security in foreign hands”

This is actually from someone once in high office? with terms like "Sovereign Brexit on WTO rules, without payment of ransom?
It looks more like something a pair of Privates would say, clearly this pair are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.
 
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flecc

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Ooer! the Tory party are having fun, aren't they?
Devastating warning from former head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove and former Chief of the Defence Staff Lord Guthrie. “The Withdrawal Agreement...would place control of aspects of our national security in foreign hands”

This is actually from someone once in high office? with terms like "Sovereign Brexit on WTO rules, wihhout payment of ransom?
It looks more like something a pair of Privates would say, clearly this pair are not the sharpest knives in the drawer.
It's just more nonsense from extremist Leavers with their heads stuck in the past.
.
 
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flecc

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Forgive me, but what is a Dominic Raab and what do you use one for?
He was used as a Brexit minister but resigned from that in November. Radio 4 News announced his resignation from something at 1pm today in the news headlines, but didn't say from what.

It now appears they messed up the announcement, confusing two new resignations with Raab's previous one:

Information link with fuller information
,
 
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50Hertz

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Another idiotic header in the Daily Mail
"RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: Let's revive the Bulldog spirit of World War Two, defy the Brexit Jeremiahs and dig for victory as we prepare to leave the EU
Sounds good to me. Woah, the hokey cokey in London’s tube stations of an evening and all that. What’s not to like??
 

tommie

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Mar 13, 2013
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Great piece on the self pity and the seemingly bottomless pit of grievance that emanates from the Republic of Ireland

Britain will discover that nationalist Ireland will never be its friend

During our honeymoon in Cuba, my wife and I spent a few days in a beach resort, where we endured an excruciating encounter at a meal organised for the hotel’s British guests. As we chatted to a couple from the home counties, the husband embarked on a rambling monologue about the relative merits of people from the Republic of Ireland as against those from Northern Ireland.
The southern Irish, he theorised, are warm, friendly and fun, while the Northern Irish are dour, humourless and aggressive. He concluded his lecture by asking, “so, which part of Ireland are you from?”, as his wife’s face reflected the dawning realisation that her dinner companions were two of the cold, grim, hard-eyed breed of Irish.
I mention this incident, chiefly because it illustrates an affection for the Republic of Ireland that is peculiarly English and rests on a naive assumption that these friendly intentions are reciprocated. It’s easy to understand why this misunderstanding might arise, thanks to the genial blarney that Brits experience on their Irish hols.
Yet, to the British in Northern Ireland, it shows startling ignorance of the brooding grievances that nationalist Ireland continues to nurture toward Britain, and England in particular. The cloying self-pity that blames English imperialism for every problem the country has ever suffered, past and present. The morose oppression complex that led more self-aware Irish commentators to bestow upon their countrymen the tongue-in-cheek acronym MOPE, or Most Oppressed People Ever.
For this reason, the extent of hostility to Brexit from nationalists in Ireland, both north and south of the border, wrong-footed many observers in Britain. It was inevitable that there would be serious concerns about the possible impact on the Republic’s economy. And a degree of hurt, that a neighbour wanted to go its separate way, was understandable.
Perhaps less expected, was the sheer intensity of Ireland’s contempt for the UK’s sovereign right to make a decision on the future of its territory. Then there was the audacity of Leo Varadkar’s plot to hive Northern Ireland off from mainland Britain, by campaigning for an internal UK border down the Irish Sea: an act of aggression that has brought us to the brink of a ‘no-deal’ Brexit that would damage the taoiseach’s country most of all.
Time after time during the negotiations, British good faith has been met with Irish hostility and scarcely a voice in the Republic has been raised in protest or concern. In his piece for TheArticle, Jason Walsh suggests that political rather than economic factors explain Dublin’s uncompromising attitude to Brexit. Broadly, I agree with that thesis. Unionists are appalled by the ‘backstop’ precisely because they know it is more to do with the conceit that Ireland is a single nation than protecting the comparatively small volume of trade that crosses the border.
Varadkar’s Fine Gael government almost certainly has no intention of trying to absorb Northern Ireland into a 32-county Irish state, in the foreseeable future. The financial and social costs for the Republic of Ireland would be far too high. The party might be less aggressive traditionally toward London than its rival, Fianna Fail, but it shares nationalist assumptions that Northern Ireland is not genuinely British and that UK authority there should be curtailed.
Varadkar and his ambitious deputy, Simon Coveney, have promoted a form of all-island nationalism that seeks increasing influence over the province without risking genuine responsibility or the cost of paying the bills. It’s a strategy that encapsulates very neatly the latent, passive-aggressive anti-British sentiment in the Republic that Brexit has exposed. Why not move the colonists’ artificial border to the Irish Sea and force closer political and economic integration between north and south, so long as Northern Ireland remains Westminster’s problem ultimately?
Irish separatists and the Dublin government like to make hazy allusions to the Good Friday Agreement, in order to attack the idea that Ulster can leave the EU on the same terms as the rest of the UK. They never quote any of the deal’s actual contents and they ignore blithely its central tenet, by which the signatories recognise “the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by a majority of the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status.”
This is the first of several sections of the document that set out the ‘principle of consent’ and the text goes on to explain that the province’s “status as part of the United Kingdom reflects and relies upon that wish”.
Rather than abide by this principle, nationalist Ireland chose instead to delude itself that the Agreement diluted British power in Ulster and made the border go away. Jason says that “Irish people are well aware of the fact that there are two states in Ireland”, but often their government acts as if it exercises joint authority over Northern Ireland.
Unionists have long wrestled with nationalism’s failure to accept that Northern Ireland’s constitutional status has consequences. If Brexit exploded the lies that nationalists told themselves about the border and UK sovereignty, that should have remained their psychological problem to work through. Instead, the British government is attempting to divide up the United Kingdom with an internal economic border, in a craven attempt to mollify and appease Dublin.

https://www.thearticle.com/britain-will-discover-that-nationalist-ireland-will-never-be-its-friend/
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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the British government is attempting to divide up the United Kingdom with an internal economic border, in a craven attempt to mollify and appease Dublin.
No, not the British Government, it was those who voted for Brexit who have created the division, creating an impossibility for which the government and EU struggle to find a solution.

What I read from your post is a Most Threatened People versus a Most Oppressed people. If you would both drop those positions you'd find there is no genuine problem.
.
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Watching the build up on TV it is fascinating that of the twenty so members of the Public interviewed , not a single one was an ardent remainer, only one even mentioned in passing another referendum, and some who claim to have voted for remain now simply want to leave and get it over with.
Hmm.
That was on the Beeb.
Sorry not really convinced by this....
Clearly the assumption is that the 48% have ceased to exist....

Here is the Brexiteers Prayer

"Yesterday upon the stair
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today,
I wish, I wish,
He'd go away."

Wouldn't that be convenient?
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,259
30,648
Watching the build up on TV it is fascinating that of the twenty so members of the Public interviewed , not a single one was an ardent remainer, only one even mentioned in passing another referendum, and some who claim to have voted for remain now simply want to leave and get it over with.
Hmm.
That was on the Beeb.
Not the only thing they've just got wrong today.

Strange they've ignored the YouGov poll that produced 59/41 in favour of Remain, a handsome 18% margin. A bit better than the measly under 4% that Leave got in the referendum.
.
 

Fingers

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Feb 9, 2016
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Watching the build up on TV it is fascinating that of the twenty so members of the Public interviewed , not a single one was an ardent remainer, only one even mentioned in passing another referendum, and some who claim to have voted for remain now simply want to leave and get it over with.
Hmm.
That was on the Beeb.
Sorry not really convinced by this....
Clearly the assumption is that the 48% have ceased to exist....

Here is the Brexiteers Prayer

"Yesterday upon the stair
I met a man who wasn't there.
He wasn't there again today,
I wish, I wish,
He'd go away."

Wouldn't that be convenient?

Most people have accepted the result by now.

It’s only the true believers and deluded who still refuse to grasp the will of the people.

Of course anything that goes against your narrative is going to be wrong or some sort of conspiracy.
 

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