Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Nothing is agreed till everything is agreed. That’s what she said. Of course it was a lie.

What May organised was literally worse than no deal. Everyone can see that.

So WTO it is and start from scratch.

The sky won’t fall in.
ER just one snag ...we haven't got WTO at the moment to fall back on
From the UK in a changing Europe.
"
The UK is a member of the WTO in its own right. But various procedures are needed to re-establish our autonomy from the rest of the EU. In particular, we have to agree on “schedules” for tariffs on goods. The government has stated that in the short term it would simply replicate the schedules of the EU to smooth our transition. There are some more problematic areas, such as agreeing on the division of quotas for goods where the EU currently has agreed quotas at EU level. Yet with enough goodwill and time, it should be relatively easy for the UK government to get agreement from WTO members to operate under WTO rules. It would also be necessary for the UK to negotiate with other countries with which the EU has free trade agreements; this might be more problematic.

Under WTO rules, each member must grant the same ‘most favoured nation’ (MFN) market access, to all other WTO members.1 This means that exports to the EU would be subject to the same customs checks, tariffs and regulatory barriers that the UK and EU currently charge on trade with countries such as the US. The UK’s exports to the EU and other WTO members would also be subject to the importing countries’ most favoured nation tariffs.

What are the potential consequences of these outcomes?

The imposition of tariffs on trade with the EU would increase costs for both UK importers (and hence consumers) and exporters. The average EU tariff rate is low – around 1.5%. However, at a sectoral level, the impacts would be much larger: for example, for cars and car parts the tariff rate is 10%. Since most UKbased car production is exported, and uses imported parts, the impacts would be magnified. The impacts would also be large on agriculture, where EU tariffs and quotas remain high; this would result in significant food price inflation for British consumers.

The only exceptions to this principle are that countries can choose to enter into free trade agreements and they can give preferential market access to developing countries. The UK could alleviate the impact on consumers by reducing or eliminating tariffs unilaterally – as long as this is done in a non-discriminatory way, this would be permitted under WTO rules. However, this would have significant impacts on domestic producers, especially in agriculture. In any case, increased tariff barriers would not be the most important impact. The bulk of the cost of doing business across borders comes from non-tariff barriers such as border checks, custom controls and compliance with different product standards and regulations across countries. These barriers cannot be removed unilaterally because they require trade partners to agree on a set of rules and regulations which they can both accept. While the UK is in the EU, its businesses do not have to go through border checks because they already qualify as being compliant with EU rules and regulations.

Under a hard Brexit/“WTO rules” scenario, without mutual recognition agreements for product standards, it is unlikely that UK products could enter the EU without further checks at the border. Over time, if there is divergence between UK and EU standards, UK businesses would need to produce two different product lines – one for the UK and one for the EU – which would increase costs and reduce competitiveness.

The impacts of non-tariff barriers would be larger for the service sector, which makes up 80% of the UK economy. Access to the single EU aviation market requires headquarters and majority shareholdings to be located within the EU so that it can have regulatory oversight on safety. UK service exporters would also suffer from the loss of ‘passporting’ rights for financial services, as well as reduced access for other service providers like legal and accountancy services.

The Centre for Economic Performance estimates that a “No Deal WTO rules only” scenario would reduce the UK’s trade with the EU by 40% over ten years. This reduced trade would mean a fall in income per head of 2.6% per year (net of the savings from no membership fees). There would also be longer-term negative effects from lower investment and slower productivity growth, which are estimated to be another 3.5% of GDP. Adopting a policy of unilateral free trade would mitigate part of these costs. But the savings from unilateral tariff cuts are estimated to be just 0.35% of GDP. The short-term disruption resulting from the sudden imposition of these WTO rules could exacerbate these negative effects..
By all means legs go for this,and shorten the timescale before we crawl back into the EU on their terms
Commended!
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,376
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Not sure how helpful this will be but here it is in context:

"Dear Remainer MP,

You seem to think that half the British economy trades with the EU. In fact only 7.4% of UK GDP comes from selling goods to the EU.

And that's the EU Commission's figure, so it's almost certainly less.

92.6% of UK GDP has nothing to do with selling goods to the EU
[Source: EU Commission]

Strangely, there are no accurate and complete figures for the number of UK businesses selling to the EU's Single Market. We know from HMRC that 145,000 VAT registered SMEs export solely to the EU, but that's just 0.54% of the total of 2.67 million VAT registered businesses in the UK. (Source: HMRC)"

From a news-letter to Remainer MPs.
Last year, we sold £276 billions to the EU27, it's 10.5% of our GDP (£2,622 billions).
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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This is the problem. If you don’t believe in remain you’re asleep, stupid, racist etc. It’s like they have wiped the referendum from their brains.
Now that would be a turn for the better, not only was it illegally rigged, but advisory only
And if you still believe in remain, there isn't any reason anywhere to support your fantasy...unless you can come up with one..........no?
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Last year, we sold £276 billions to the EU27, it's 10.5% of our GDP (£2,622 billions).
Leave voters always have had problems with the importance of percentages, they like to move them up or down to suit the argument
 
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anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
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Leave voters always have had problems with the importance of percentages, they like to move them up or down to suit the argument
You mean like "an immense 2% victory" and " a tiny 7% of our GDP"? Just asking... :rolleyes:
 
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tommie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 13, 2013
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Well I did not introduce the topic..read back and you will find that it was our northern friend Tommie who did.

You might choose to believe that the troubles part 2 will not re emerge . But neither I , John Major, or the head of the PSNI share that optimism. Enough time has now elapsed that the romance of that period is starting to fill young heads,and they don't recall,..(how could they) , the horror. . The event in Roscommon is fuel to such fantasy. May I say with a little respect, if your age is indeed 40 and you only have peripheral knowledge of Ireland and the border counties, then this is a topic you know nothing about.

Yes the majority of Irish exports to the mainland of Europe, pass via the "landbridge" of Dublin Liverpool, or Holyhead onto the North Wales motorway or via Rosslare onto the Southern Wales motorway and then via the channel l tunnel or the RoRo ferries. This is particularly the case for time critical fresh cargo. The fastest direct ferries take 16 to 18 hours, and leave one in Western Brittany or Cherbourg. It would add on about 6 hours ,which is very inconvenient when getting lamb to the Paris market. I have been aware of this for some 2.5 years , and have been warning about it.
The problem remains as bad whether the holdup is in Newry or in Holyhead.
What you need to get your head around is that it is going to happen, unless the UK gets real.
Calm down Dan, passage to your french chateau has already been sorted -->

Common Transit Convention news welcomed

Published: 19 December, 2018


The government’s announcement that the UK will remain in the Common Transit Convention has been welcomed by the Freight Transport Association.


The UK has negotiated an agreement to stay in the Common Transit Convention (CTC) even if there is no Brexit deal between the two sides. This means that goods can continue to be transported freely between the UK and the EEA with customs declarations and import duties only being paid when the goods arrive at their final destination. It is particularly important for the Republic of Ireland which transports the majority of its exports to the EU across the UK “land bridge”.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Calm down Dan, passage to your french chateau has already been sorted -->

Common Transit Convention news welcomed

Published: 19 December, 2018


The government’s announcement that the UK will remain in the Common Transit Convention has been welcomed by the Freight Transport Association.


The UK has negotiated an agreement to stay in the Common Transit Convention (CTC) even if there is no Brexit deal between the two sides. This means that goods can continue to be transported freely between the UK and the EEA with customs declarations and import duties only being paid when the goods arrive at their final destination. It is particularly important for the Republic of Ireland which transports the majority of its exports to the EU across the UK “land bridge”.
That is indeed good news. I do assume it requires the containers to be bonded and customs inspectors just check that the seal has not been broken?.
Chateau is a slightly grand interpretation, but in the spirit of goodwill I will accept it.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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Calm down Dan, passage to your french chateau has already been sorted -->

Common Transit Convention news welcomed

Published: 19 December, 2018


The government’s announcement that the UK will remain in the Common Transit Convention has been welcomed by the Freight Transport Association.


The UK has negotiated an agreement to stay in the Common Transit Convention (CTC) even if there is no Brexit deal between the two sides. This means that goods can continue to be transported freely between the UK and the EEA with customs declarations and import duties only being paid when the goods arrive at their final destination. It is particularly important for the Republic of Ireland which transports the majority of its exports to the EU across the UK “land bridge”.
If I am not mistaken, the ECJ has some authority in this convention.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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It's rather bad and typifies points made earlier when our champion of socialism, equal rights and anti prejudism uses a sexist term like "stupid woman".. Doesn't help and shows him in a very hypocritical light... Especially with the stupidest woman in country sat at side of him...
It's great being esteemed... A first..
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,200
30,603
If I am not mistaken, the ECJ has some authority in this convention.
Despite all the huffing and puffing from TM and co. about getting rid of the ECJ, we are still subject to the ECJ in numerous ways. Many of the EU laws we passed into UK law with the great repeal bill have the ECJ as the final arbiter, and TM's deal if accepted includes being subject to the ECJ on some of the issues contained in the deal.
.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
Will I need a passport to visit Ireland next April? Or will the special arrangements still hold that mean driving licence (or whatever) is adequate?
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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It's rather bad and typifies points made earlier when our champion of socialism, equal rights and anti prejudism uses a sexiest term like "stupid woman"..
I don't agree, this is a petty issue that some women are now using as yet another accusation of sexism. They've often shown no reluctance to accuse a man of being stupid and only recently I heard a group of three women saying just that.

There have been occasions when I've said stupid man or stupid woman and I will continue to say either when I think it suits what I observe. Do you really think JC has never muttered "stupid man"? Of course he has, probably made more likely by being in politics surrounded by them, and also very likely that he's been called a stupid man many times. You've done it yourself Zlatan when you posted this:

stupid Labour leaders

In other words, used in both directions these expressions are not sexual or gender discrimination and women who say they are should be told to shut up and stop being stupid.
.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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I don't agree, this is a petty issue that some women are now using as yet another accusation of sexism. They've often shown no reluctance to accuse a man of being stupid and only recently I heard a group of three women saying just that.

There have been occasions when I've said stupid man or stupid woman and I will continue to say either when I think it suits what I observe. Do you really think JC has never muttered "stupid man"? Of course he has, probably made more likely by being in politics surrounded by them, and also very likely that he's been called a stupid man many times. You've done it yourself Zlatan when you posted this:

stupid Labour leaders

In other words, used in both directions these expressions are not sexual or gender discrimination and women who say they are should be told to shut up and stop being stupid.
.
I know where you are coming from flecc and sort of agree with you. His mistake is not intrinsically using the term its the out of touch attitude he demonstrates inviting the sexism card. Of course he isn't a sexist but in his position with folk looking for faults he makes himself such an easy target.
I, ve used term, would again in certain company. Would not have been worth hassle to use term when I was employed and if I used it on boat.... I, d be thrown overboard. You just can't use such terms nowadays. It invites repercussion, whether rightly or wrongly is irrelevant. Because it does.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,200
30,603
I know where you are coming from flecc and sort of agree with you. His mistake is not intrinsically using the term its the out of touch attitude he demonstrates inviting the sexism card. Of course he isn't a sexist but in his position with folk looking for faults he makes himself such an easy target.
I, ve used term, would again in certain company. Would not have been worth hassle to use term when I was employed and if I used it on boat.... I, d be thrown overboard. You just can't use such terms nowadays. It invites repercussion, whether rightly or wrongly is irrelevant. Because it does.
But we should stand up against it, PC is going too far now and I particularly object to the current trend of some woman clutching at any straw as part of the utterly stupid "Me too" bandwagon.

Too often imagined wrongs.
.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,200
30,603
Will I need a passport to visit Ireland next April? Or will the special arrangements still hold that mean driving licence (or whatever) is adequate?
Million dollar question, who knows? Hopefully not but we can't be sure yet.

I used to have to present a passport to enter the UK's Northern Ireland in the 1970s!
.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
Million dollar question, who knows? Hopefully not but we can't be sure yet.

I used to have to present a passport to enter the UK's Northern Ireland in the 1970s!
.
Last time I went to NI, maybe five years ago, I was advised to take my passport. It is not a great burden if you already have one!

Was just looking at Pembroke Dock/Fishguard services and the sites do not suggest that a passport will be required but it struck me that I really don't know how the historic special arrangements will be impacted.
 
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Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
The government said on Tuesday that it had sent letters to 140,000 businesses, urging them to trigger their no-deal contingency plans as appropriate.
It will also distribute 100-page information packs on Friday.

Good timing in the Christmas post,most firms pack up this Friday!!!!!
I wonder what no-deal contingency plans I should be instigating????
KudosDave
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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But we should stand up against it, PC is going too far now and I particularly object to the current trend of some woman clutching at any straw as part of the utterly stupid "Me too" bandwagon.

Too often imagined wrongs.
.
No, it's wrong flecc, but minor.
If it upsets them don't use term. End of. Hardly hardship..
But its a strange world. He can call May stupid. He can say she is a woman... but can't call her a "stupid woman"... Ask his mates, this sort of thing is rife in Labour Party, which is why its made such an issue of...
 

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
3,373
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Iron Man is a superhero.

Iron woman is a command.

The old ones are the old ones. I'm here till Xmas.
 

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