No labour should not be in power, that would be stupid, till the madness of Brexit you voted for is consigned to the dustbin, anyone with half a brain would want the Conservatives to sort out the mess they made.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Freedom of movement is a two way street. Will UK citizens, as a third country, have to jump through the same hoops as I have to in order to keep their cottage in the Perigord Noir?
I don't know myself but a friend recently enquired at the prefecture for a residence permit, she got a very courteous meeting with an official (unlike what Africans who queued outside the foreigners bureau were put through). Basically, you need to supply proof of residence at your French address for the last 3 months and proof of self supporting income, you'll get a residence permit for 1 year, after that, the permit will be renewed for 5 years. It's the same for all EU citizens at the moment.
But that's exactly the stupidity of Labour... Had they championed remain and with a more moderate leader they could be in power and putting a stop to Brexit. (If that's truly what country wants, which a GE on correct manifesto would have shown us... If tories want out of EU let them campaign on it, Labour should have opposed and nobody could then moan. The GE could have shut us all up,one way or another.)
Isn't that the idea of our democracy.??? JC thinks he is being clever. He is not. He is abusing our system.Comes on Marr and tells us he voted remain but he has opposed every single EU vote (eg Maastricht) since 1975. He is a committed europhobe,how can he oppose May.
He is actually conning nation. He wants to inherit power (not earn it) after we have left. Trouble is he simply won't.
https://dailym.ai/2PnTKjW
Ignore the article, Gallagher isn't quite a full shilling anyway but read some of the comments.. Very critical of current Labour, even Labour supporters.
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'struth! I guess that Wayne Kerr has been commenting on my posts again.
These selfish, anti-socialist, anti-humanitarians would believe anything if they think that the BBC and the toilet paper propaganda purveyors are suddenly telling the truth in what they are now reporting.
I note that 'Woosh', the forum fence-squatter and apologist for the racist fanatics who make up a huge proportion of the 'leave' mandate, still can't bring himself to condemn the unapologetic right-wing extremists who created the situation that directly resulted in the death of Jo Cox MP.
Those despicable racists have zero interest in the economy or in global markets or world politics; all they want is to rid the UK of foreigners, with total disregard for the human cost involved. The party which they see as their champion in this relentless crusade towards international isolation is the party of the enormously wealthy and the British aristocracy who will further rape the UK of any resources still available, selling off to foreign entities anything which can be sold.
It never ceases to amaze me how so many, particularly in this forum, can so glibly disregard or somehow mitigate the actions brought about by the direction and rabble-rousing expressions of the 'utter filth in a suit' as represented by the tory party and the UKIP scum.
To identify the fact that so many 'leave' voters did not vote to leave for economic reasons or what is best for all the British people, but for some other unspecified motive as 'Woosh' has done and not speak out, is a betrayal of all those ordinary folk and all those too young to be permitted a vote in 2016 and now. When you know something isn't right, it is incumbent upon any decent citizen to speak up as Martin Niemöller came to understand after 8 years imprisonment.
He encompassed his own failing and his regret in these well-known lines:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
'Brexit' is wrong and I will never become like the racists who voted leave due to their personal bigotry. Indeed, I still believe that change will come about in the future as predicted by Robert Burns over 200 years ago when he wrote these words in the old Scots tongue which are slightly difficult to grasp in places, although translation assistance is available on the internet for those who might need it:
Is there for honest Poverty
That hings his head, an' a' that;
The coward slave-we pass him by,
We dare be poor for a' that!
For a' that, an' a' that.
Our toils obscure an' a' that,
The rank is but the guinea's stamp,
The Man's the gowd for a' that.
What though on hamely fare we dine,
Wear hoddin grey, an' a that;
Gie fools their silks, and knaves their wine;
A Man's a Man for a' that:
For a' that, and a' that,
Their tinsel show, an' a' that;
The honest man, tho' e'er sae poor,
Is king o' men for a' that.
Ye see yon birkie, ca'd a lord,
Wha struts, an' stares, an' a' that;
Tho' hundreds worship at his word,
He's but a coof for a' that:
For a' that, an' a' that,
His ribband, star, an' a' that:
The man o' independent mind
He looks an' laughs at a' that.
A prince can mak a belted knight,
A marquis, duke, an' a' that;
But an honest man's abon his might,
Gude faith, he maunna fa' that!
For a' that, an' a' that,
Their dignities an' a' that;
The pith o' sense, an' pride o' worth,
Are higher rank than a' that.
Then let us pray that come it may,
(As come it will for a' that,)
That Sense and Worth, o'er a' the earth,
Shall bear the gree, an' a' that.
For a' that, an' a' that,
It's coming yet for a' that,
That Man to Man, the world o'er,
Shall brothers be for a' that.
Tom
Long winded way of saying very very little Tom. Not a word about Corbyn stance.
Which really only proves my point that the whole Westminter Club consisting of all the politicians there in all parties are not fit to run the country, so why do you keep pushing the idea there exist a Labour party you regard as pure?
It's simply a case of picking the lesser evil.
And the chice here is between two imperatives
- Naive optimism on the Labour side intended to help everyone including those who imagine they are "above needing help from Marxists"
- Malevolent avarice on the Conservative side to serve only the Elite, gift wrapped to fool the plebs who suffer from "Aspirationitis" and of course including those who imagine they are above needing help from Marxists ,and also exhibit financially masochistic tendencies .
And all of this is of no consequence till we get the Conservative car crash of Brexit out of the way.
They should be left to sort out this mess of their own making.
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Fake news award of the day goes to this Times header
"
Corbyn-fearing rich put homes on market for a quick getaway
Wealthy Britons are downsizing to smaller properties before moving abroad and shifting their money offshore in fear of a government under Jeremy Corbyn, estate agents claim. Pressures on the precarious high-end property market...
And the truth..........
They know Brexit is a disaster about the happen and are clearing the decks before selling out, and are damned if they will admit the true reason!
The Elephant in the room for this header is simply this
Why not simply sell up and move out?
Why downsize and stay temporarily? what could there be to gain?
After all if Corbyn doesn't get in what have they gained......
Because there is a killing to be made while property prices are still high , and some neat swindles when the pound bombs before they go, and they need a bolt hole if that fails to materialise
Nothing to do with Corbyn , everything to do with Brexit
As to shifting their money offshore because of Corbn, are we really expected to believe they haven't done that already? Oh, come on! are we supposed to be green enough to believe that? is there anyone, anywhere, that believes they keep their money in this country because they are altruistic enough to want to pay Tax on it?
That gets the Porkie of the day award as well.
And there is a plus side to all this, with any luck it will drastically reduce the number of Russian oligarchs funding the Conservative Party
"
Corbyn-fearing rich put homes on market for a quick getaway
Wealthy Britons are downsizing to smaller properties before moving abroad and shifting their money offshore in fear of a government under Jeremy Corbyn, estate agents claim. Pressures on the precarious high-end property market...
And the truth..........
They know Brexit is a disaster about the happen and are clearing the decks before selling out, and are damned if they will admit the true reason!
The Elephant in the room for this header is simply this
Why not simply sell up and move out?
Why downsize and stay temporarily? what could there be to gain?
After all if Corbyn doesn't get in what have they gained......
Because there is a killing to be made while property prices are still high , and some neat swindles when the pound bombs before they go, and they need a bolt hole if that fails to materialise
Nothing to do with Corbyn , everything to do with Brexit
As to shifting their money offshore because of Corbn, are we really expected to believe they haven't done that already? Oh, come on! are we supposed to be green enough to believe that? is there anyone, anywhere, that believes they keep their money in this country because they are altruistic enough to want to pay Tax on it?
That gets the Porkie of the day award as well.
And there is a plus side to all this, with any luck it will drastically reduce the number of Russian oligarchs funding the Conservative Party
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that is simplistic to the extreme to assume that the only people who speak out are:
- socialists
- trade unionists
- Jews
I am none of the above - I think of myself a decent human being and speak up on occasion against bullies.
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Too late the Noving finger wriites and all that.. changing your post before I could give it an Oxymoron warning
"I am none of the above - I think of myself a simple human being and speak up on occasion against the bullies here and elsewhere."
"Simple human being indeed"
Reminiscent of Churchills barbed praise about Clement Attlee
"He is a modest man,
Who has much to be modest about"
Just kidding
Your interpretation that this applies only to the groups named is itself simplistic.
Universal Soldier doesn't only apply to people of two specific heights:
He's five foot-two, and he's six feet-four
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war
Deeply insightful lyrics
oyster, remainers lost the vote but not necessary the battle whereas a lot of people who voted for brexit have been losers for years before. As the polls have revealed, a significant number of brexit voters were motivated by other issues than membership of the EU, it seems unfair to me that they have been branded all sorts of nasty epithets because of the issues they voted on. It's their democratic choice.
Really? Perhaps I have just imagined that you have kept remarkably schtum in these pages about the huge numbers of 'leave' voters that you seem to believe/admit voted for what I consider the worst of all reasons in the referendum of 2016. Now, I would think someone who claims to be unafraid to stand up to bullies and to speak out against them would do exactly that when confronted with the knowledge that racists represent a large section of that distorted referendum result.
It was distorted because the referendum should have been phrased in such terms that it could not be misconstrued by lowlife scum as a vote on immigration or skin colour or language differences but that is what happened.
Tom
In any group stereotyping then can be both an internal and external thing
On both sides there has been abuses, but it has to be said the greatest excesses have been commited by the Media and policians, also
almost certainly many Brexit voters have volutarily taken on victimhood as a sort of defence mechanism to ward off regret at the decision they made, much as religious followers have a tendency to do, when there is no pragmatic evidence based defence they can articulate.
My view is that people were simply misled by many competing methods of persuasion, and often were actually reacting to stimuli that they were not consciously cognisant of.
That wasn't their fault, and in truth they had much to feel aggrieved about and an easy and compelling target offered and tempting arguments were used to influence the decision they made against a background of no information to make a balanced judgement possible
Even the nature of the Referendum was after all hidden because the fear was of a low turnout if the public realised it was "Advisory only"
And that was only the first of many lies
Yes - nasty epithets have been all too common throughout and applied in both directions.
I disagree strongly with those who voted for brexit. Even if leaving the EU were right, those who were promoting it and leading the campaign seem deeply flawed to me. But I am certainly not out to hurl insults at individual voters.
And I do not understand how your response follows on from mine?
Why is this being ignored?
IT’S THE LAW, LEAVERS | Whatever Cameron promised or the leaflet said.
The referendum was advisory only - and can be disregarded by the current Government and Parliament who are not bound by the promises of its predecessors.
It’s that simple, really.
Tom
IT’S THE LAW, LEAVERS | Whatever Cameron promised or the leaflet said.
The referendum was advisory only - and can be disregarded by the current Government and Parliament who are not bound by the promises of its predecessors.
It’s that simple, really.
Tom
On the theme of "It's that simple really"
put yourself in the shoes of the Elite
if your offshore bank accounts were under threat from the EU would you want to remain in the EU?
That doesn't really accord with the man who proclaims himself to be a decent human being who stands up to bullies on occasion. Of course, maybe 'Brexit' isn't one of your 'occasions' and maybe it wasn't a lowlife scumbag who bullied Jo Cox. Every one of those who voted for the cause that enthused Thomas Mair so greatly is just as guilty in my book. They are all racists and bow down before fascist demagogues.
Doesn't it hurt your bum when you sit on a fence for so long?
Tom
Jo Cox was murdered by one person, not millions of people that you insult.
OT, you should listen to yourself sometimes. If someone talks to you the way you talk to me, how would you react?
Empathy is a a god's gift to humankind. Why don't you use it more talking to fellow posters?
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