Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Right wing, left wing, they are only in it to sell papers, they don’t really care which side they are on, that’s why to have to be sceptical whatever they write, even if it’s agreeing with what you think.

Indeed. With all the information about each one of us that is being gathered all the time, once we all have small payment systems based on our personal phones or cards, the newspaper we buy online could have our own point of view on the front page at least.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

First you say it’s not propaganda, then you say it was propaganda, make up your mind.

I find it difficult to respect someone who would pass such a letter on to the media, it’s below the belt, and not the work of a gentleman.

How on earth did you come up with that?
Read my post again
"At a recent meeting Davis told Brussels to learn it's history.
This is one delegate present's response
Jonathan Mills
As a member of RUSI I can let the readers know that his words were greeted with polite but subdued applause. After he departed there was a period of silence followed by considerable laughter. One esteemed and highly regarded member made mention that
Britain has at one time or another been an enemy of every single region of the European continent; but never until now all of them at the same time.
More laughter ensued.

He represents us? is it wise to let him continue if this is the way he carries on?"

Where does the word propaganda appear? and where did I do other than point out that Davis was undermining our interests with making himself look a clown.
I never made any mention of Propaganda at all did I, that is entirely out of your imagination.
It may not suit a Government supporter, but so what.
The delegate who sent in the letter didn't think it was "below the belt" he intended it as fair warning of what a farce our position is looking with Davis in charge.
I actually merely posted it verbatim with this sensible additional comment

He represents us? is it wise to let him continue if this is the way he carries on?

 

[oldgroaner]

Right wing, left wing, they are only in it to sell papers, they don’t really care which side they are on, that’s why to have to be sceptical whatever they write, even if it’s agreeing with what you think.

But the problem is their lies have credibility and influence with the public and they should be held to be less used as propaganda vehicles

 

[oldgroaner]

Right wing, left wing, they are only in it to sell papers, they don’t really care which side they are on, that’s why to have to be sceptical whatever they write, even if it’s agreeing with what you think.

Really? surely you don't believe that . They are most certainly politically biassed and don't merely care, but are very careful to attempt to manipulate public opinion according the owners of their papers, even to the level of threatening front pages

Dont really care which side they are on?

 

[ianboydsnr]

Jonathan Mills
As a member of RUSI I can let the readers know

That’s the bit that says it’s propaganda,
Why did he feel the need to let anyone know?

It wasn’t his concern for the UK public now was it?
It wasn’t even a jibe at Davis in private, you know, a joke among friends and colleagues,
No it was purely to undermine Davis, it doesn’t even matter whether it’s a 100% correct, accurate or not, it’s inteded purpose was to ridicule and undermine, the person on the other side of the table, it worked, because you fell for it, and you won’t be the only one,

Now I don’t hold Davis in any high regard, but I do know that this sort of title tattle is playing to the crowd, it’s not what a professional should be doing, and not an innocent mistake.

 

[ianboydsnr]

Really? surely you don't believe that . They are most certainly politically biassed and don't merely care, but are very careful to attempt to manipulate public opinion according the owners of their papers, even to the level of threatening front pages

Dont really care which side they are on?

They don’t, it’s a business to sell papers, division is what sells, no one buys papers that have the opposite view, that’s why they pick sides,
Do you think that headline is to do with anything other than shift papers?

 

[ianboydsnr]

But the problem is their lies have credibility and influence with the public and they should be held to be less used as propaganda vehicles

Do they?

I thought it was waning and Faceache and Twatter was taking over, much quicker and easier to spread propaganda, fake news and be downright offensive at your fellow man

 

[oldgroaner]

TM is at it again
from the Independent
"
Theresa May’s plan to compromise with pro-EU rebel Tories faces a crisis less than 24 hours after it allowed her to avoid a humiliating commons defeat.

Rebels believe she personally promised to discuss their proposals to give parliament control over Brexit if no deal has been reached by February next year, but today Downing Street said the idea is not on the table.


The assurances Ms May gave the rebels on Tuesday persuaded them to temporarily back away from inflicting a damaging blow on her Brexit plans, but they are warning they will push ahead if she does not give enough ground."

They never learn, and what is worrying is that the EU folk are watching every devious move and dirty trick, imagine how they view us as trustworthy negotiators now.

 

[ianboydsnr]

TM is at it again
from the Independent
"
Theresa May’s plan to compromise with pro-EU rebel Tories faces a crisis less than 24 hours after it allowed her to avoid a humiliating commons defeat.

Rebels believe she personally promised to discuss their proposals to give parliament control over Brexit if no deal has been reached by February next year, but today Downing Street said the idea is not on the table.


The assurances Ms May gave the rebels on Tuesday persuaded them to temporarily back away from inflicting a damaging blow on her Brexit plans, but they are warning they will push ahead if she does not give enough ground."

They never learn, and what is worrying is that the EU folk are watching every devious move and dirty trick, imagine how they view us as trustworthy negotiators now.

Well they could hardly be classed as trustworthy, when they are leaking snide title tattle to the press,

That sounds to me like the independent creating a story by filling in the gaps.

 

[oldgroaner]

They don’t, it’s a business to sell papers, division is what sells, no one buys papers that have the opposite view, that’s why they pick sides,
Do you think that headline is to do with anything other than shift papers?

Yes.

 

[oldgroaner]

Well they could hardly be classed as trustworthy, when they are leaking snide title tattle to the press,

That sounds to me like the independent creating a story by filling in the gaps.

And that sounds to me like a government apologist trotting out excuses for the Government lying to members of it's own party. to falsely gain their support.

 

[ianboydsnr]

And that sounds to me like a government apologist trotting out excuses for the Government lying to members of it's own party. to falsely gain their support.

Not at all, but I prefer more than heresay and guesswork from the independent, in order to condem them, real evidence please

 

[Woosh]

Well they could hardly be classed as trustworthy, when they are leaking snide title tattle to the press,

That sounds to me like the independent creating a story by filling in the gaps.

I watched Anna Soubry on BBC2 at lunch time (BBC2 Daily Politics) talking about their meeting with TM yesterday.
The Independent reported reasonably accurately.
There will be more fireworks next month.

 

[oldgroaner]

That’s the bit that says it’s propaganda,
Why did he feel the need to let anyone know?

It wasn’t his concern for the UK public now was it?
It wasn’t even a jibe at Davis in private, you know, a joke among friends and colleagues,
No it was purely to undermine Davis, it doesn’t even matter whether it’s a 100% correct, accurate or not, it’s inteded purpose was to ridicule and undermine, the person on the other side of the table, it worked, because you fell for it, and you won’t be the only one,

Now I don’t hold Davis in any high regard, but I do know that this sort of title tattle is playing to the crowd, it’s not what a professional should be doing, and not an innocent mistake.

I see, in the eyes of a Government apologist it's wrong to report a situation that could work against our interests because it doesn't suit?

Would you rather Davis is beyond critisism?

If he is making us a laughing stock we need to know, we can judge for ourselves whether to believe it or not

The problem is that there is plenty of evidence from his actual speeches that this is more likely to be true than not, and you are in no position to take the lordly attitude "it's not what a professional should be doing"

That is a personal choice of the delegate, who could easily have made a much more cutting response than that, along the lines of
"
The former head of the Vote Leave campaign has branded the Brexit Secretary as “thick as mince” and “as lazy as a toad”.

Dominic Cummings said David Davis’s Repeal Bill contained provisions that would allow ministers to cave in to EU demands at the last minute.

Not a very flattering response from someone allegedly on the same side
"Its not what a professional should be doing".

 

[oldgroaner]

Not at all, but I prefer more than heresay and guesswork from the independent, in order to condem them, real evidence please

"
Rebel MP Anna Soubry took to Twitter to say: “For the avoidance of doubt, the PM said yesterday that clause c of Dominic Grieve’s amendment would be discussed as part of the new amendment to be tabled in the Lords.


“If the PM goes back on that there will be no agreed amendment that I can support.”

 

[oyster]

There was a report other day about them paying £113 for a pack of tablets available for under £5 abroad.

And a medicine with which I am familiar is being sold to the NHS at about £253 for 28 tablets. In Greece, the equivalent medicine is about 1.2 euros for 28. It isn't even as if the UK product is super-fantastic, ultra-quality. Many who have tried both prefer the Greek product.

The high price has resulted in numerous patients being refused the medicine. Even patients who were put on it by specialists many years ago.

(This is not a medicine where there are alternatives. Like insulin for diabetics or B12 for those with pernicious anaemia - only the real thing well do.)

 

[oyster]

There are two sides to every argument OG, if we carried guns perhaps ( big perhaps) there might be fewer moped attacks.

More likely more moped thieves would carry guns, with the obvious likelihood of more injuries from flying lead. Whether moped riders or victims.

 

[Zlatan]

More likely more moped thieves would carry guns, with the obvious likelihood of more injuries from flying lead. Whether moped riders or victims.

I did say perhaps.. (, big perhaps)

 

[oyster]

What a dog's breakfast...

Security row over EU Galileo satellite project as Britain is shut out
Fears over impact on Brexit talks with UK taxpayers having already contributed £1bn

I'll just note that until very recently, there was considerable trust between/among countries about very serious issues. Seems an awful lot of that has disappeared. For goodness sake, when Canada and USA appear daggers drawn...

 

[tillson]

TM is at it again
from the Independent
"
Theresa May’s plan to compromise with pro-EU rebel Tories faces a crisis less than 24 hours after it allowed her to avoid a humiliating commons defeat.

Rebels believe she personally promised to discuss their proposals to give parliament control over Brexit if no deal has been reached by February next year, but today Downing Street said the idea is not on the table.


The assurances Ms May gave the rebels on Tuesday persuaded them to temporarily back away from inflicting a damaging blow on her Brexit plans, but they are warning they will push ahead if she does not give enough ground."

They never learn, and what is worrying is that the EU folk are watching every devious move and dirty trick, imagine how they view us as trustworthy negotiators now.

In a post earlier today, I said the word “suckers” springs to mind.