Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Delusional and hypocritical, keep going OG, your list of qualities gets longer every post.

You're doing it again, please attempt to stop and post on topic

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Danidl]

Well that must have been answered many many times, but I guess it’s because they don’t like what the EU is becoming, to be fair no one thinks that the EU doesn’t need big reform, no one other than the EU, CAP, the industrial strategy, training and youth employment, the ability of companies to offshore profit to tax havens, lobbyists, immigration both in and outside the EU, corruption,

That’s not to say that even those that voted leave don’t think that there have been some big benefits, but it doesn’t seem capable of change, it moving city every other month, it’s constrained by nationalism, in the constituent countries, the French doing what’s best for the French, the Germans doing what’s best for Germany, that sort of thing, the nationalists that are in the corridors of the EU

On the one hand it needs to change to a federal state of Europe, in order to override the nationalism, which it’s slowly been doing, since it evolved into the EU, but on the other hand nationalism means that many don’t want that to happen, those nationalists not in the corridors of the EU, that governments like to ignore,
To be fair Ireland got to vote on each stage, was it twice? So you had the ability to buy into the changes, the UK didn’t, and that was a mistake by Blair and Brown, that would have been a referendum that could have worked regardless of the result.

I accept the validity of your view as expressed in the first paragraph. I don't agree with many parts of it but it is a valid viewpoint.
What my comment was is more limited in scope. And about was the decision by the HoC to exclude giving themselves the right to veto the negociated package. That is what is bizzare. Every textbook on management and human relationships recognises that every group will seek to maximise their freedom of action while seeking to limit the freedom of others.. It is an axiom, yet now we experience a group volunteering to limit their power to act.

 

[ianboydsnr]

Your abrasive attitude was evident from your very first post, and you are still off topic and launching a personal attack.

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

Pot calling kettle springs to mind,

But thats ok, I can take it as well as give it

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

It is an axiom, yet now we experience a group volunteering to limit their power to act.

replace "act" with "be held responsible for"

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Damn these pesky experts.

An absolute broadside against Brexit from outgoing CBI president Paul Drechsler today...

1. Sectors of manufacturing "risk becoming extinct" after hard Brexit.

2. There's "zero evidence" that trade deals outside the EU would provide any economic benefit to the UK.

3. "Tidal wave of ideology" responsible for government's bad Brexit policies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44462829

 

[ianboydsnr]

I accept the validity of your view as expressed in the first paragraph. I don't agree with many parts of it but it is a valid viewpoint.
What my comment was is more limited in scope. And about was the decision by the HoC to exclude giving themselves the right to veto the negociated package. That is what is bizzare. Every textbook on management and human relationships recognises that every group will seek to maximise their freedom of action while seeking to limit the freedom of others.. It is an axiom, yet now we experience a group volunteering to limit their power to act.

I can understand that, it’s hard to negotiate, when you don’t hold the authority to agree a deal, it’s bad enough when you agree a deal, and you have to phone your manager to confirm that it’s acceptable, imagine how difficult if your manager, then says that he will have to put it to the shareholders and the shareholders accept it and share the blame, or they reject it and get the blame, sharing the responsibility is the same as sharing the blame,

I think they should share the blame.

Which part of my first paragraph do you disagree with?

 

[ianboydsnr]

Damn these pesky experts.

An absolute broadside against Brexit from outgoing CBI president Paul Drechsler today...

1. Sectors of manufacturing "risk becoming extinct" after hard Brexit.

2. There's "zero evidence" that trade deals outside the EU would provide any economic benefit to the UK.

3. "Tidal wave of ideology" responsible for government's bad Brexit policies.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44462829

Whilst I don’t wholey disagree with what he says, but wasn’t he the replacement for the last CBI president that was fired for having the opposite view?
That doesn’t mean he is wrong, just that he would always have that view, because that’s the view the CBI employed.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

just that he would always have that view, because that’s the view the CBI employed.

He's leaving... so if he had a different view, now would be the time he shared it.

 

[oldgroaner]

Pot calling kettle springs to mind,

But thats ok, I can take it as well as give it

I would remind you I was responding to your remarks, not the other way round
You certainly "give it" as you put it, but seem unable to stop, despite being asked to do so.

 

[oldgroaner]

You take things far too seriously, hanging of everything that is said means you’re not seeing the wood for The trees, the properganda in the media is just to sell media, it’s not real, nor is it where discussions take place.

And you dismiss it too readily this wasn't media propaganda but a private letter of a delegate at a meeting

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Daily Mail
"
Commons in chaos as every SNP MP walks out of PMQs after their leader is kicked out by John Bercow in dispute over devolution

• Ian Blackford tried to force a vote during PMQs today in defiance of protocol
• Successfully using arcane trick to halt PMQs would have been unprecedented
• Speaking John Bercow lost control of the Commons chamber during the stunt
• Blackford was eventually expelled from the Commons and his MPs left with him

Interesting times we live in thanks to Brexit

 

[oldgroaner]

yet now we experience a group volunteering to limit their power to act.

They have the survival skills of the average Dodo!
And so do those who support them, however it really doesn't matter as they are not in control over anything more than their bar bills.

 

[flecc]

From the Daily Mail
"
Commons in chaos as every SNP MP walks out of PMQs after their leader is kicked out by John Bercow in dispute over devolution

• Ian Blackford tried to force a vote during PMQs today in defiance of protocol
• Successfully using arcane trick to halt PMQs would have been unprecedented
• Speaking John Bercow lost control of the Commons chamber during the stunt
• Blackford was eventually expelled from the Commons and his MPs left with him

Interesting times we live in thanks to Brexit

Yes, isn't it sad that the House of Commons cannot debate Brexit in the civilised and polite way that we do in here.
.

 

[ianboydsnr]

He's leaving... so if he had a different view, now would be the time he shared it.QUOTE]

My point was that the reason the last boss left was because he didn’t follow the views of the board of the CBI at the time, the replacement got the job because of his views, so it’s not unexpected what he says, leaving has nothing to do with it, they specifically employed a remainer, so it’s not unexpected that he has remainer views still

 

[ianboydsnr]

And you dismiss it too readily this wasn't media propaganda but a private letter of a delegate at a meeting

If you know about it, it’s not that private now is it?

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, isn't it sad that the House of Commons cannot debate Brexit in the civilised and polite way that we do in here.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

If you know about it, it’s not that private now is it?

Of course not, he wrote to the papers, so what's your point? he obviously thought it worth reporting the reaction of the audience to the nonsense Davis came out with.

 

[ianboydsnr]

Of course not, he wrote to the papers, so what's your point? he obviously thought it worth reporting the reaction of the audience to the nonsense Davis came out with.

First you say it’s not propaganda, then you say it was propaganda, make up your mind.

I find it difficult to respect someone who would pass such a letter on to the media, it’s below the belt, and not the work of a gentleman.

 

[oldgroaner]

Today's Fake news from the Express
"
Putin takes CREDIT for Trump-Kim summit but warns nuclear war threat STILL remains
PRESIDENT Vladimir Putin has taken credit for the landmark summit between President Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un earlier this week, but said there are still issues surrounding North Korea’s missile programme and the threat of nuclear war is not out of sight.

He did no such thing

The Moscow statement was as follows
"The Kremlin said on Wednesday that a summit between the US President Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un showed President Putin was right to encourage direct dialogue as a way to reduce tensions.

But then, this is a Right Wing Paper, not renowned for integrity

 

[ianboydsnr]

Today's Fake news from the Express
"
Putin takes CREDIT for Trump-Kim summit but warns nuclear war threat STILL remains
PRESIDENT Vladimir Putin has taken credit for the landmark summit between President Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un earlier this week, but said there are still issues surrounding North Korea’s missile programme and the threat of nuclear war is not out of sight.

He did no such thing

The Moscow statement was as follows
"The Kremlin said on Wednesday that a summit between the US President Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un showed President Putin was right to encourage direct dialogue as a way to reduce tensions.

But then, this is a Right Wing Paper, not renowned for integrity

Right wing, left wing, they are only in it to sell papers, they don’t really care which side they are on, that’s why to have to be sceptical whatever they write, even if it’s agreeing with what you think.