Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

You really think they'll go for the free movement thing? Really? We're not in Schengen now, I can't see people bring happy with that move.

Check the polls.
TM's strategy works. Hard brexit died when the tories lost their majority at the last GE.
JRM and his mates can't replace TM, only remainer tory MPs can change her policy and she tacitly lets them do so. The only obstacle to recognition day is JC. When he lets go of the idea of cake and eating, it will be quickly resolved.

 

[oldgroaner]

I don't think those suckers will result in many new strawberry plants.

But there has been lots of Rhubarb

 

[oldgroaner]

This page from the BBC news online tells you all you need to know about Britain's future prospects as a nation with little in the way of exports that other nations might actually wish to buy.

When the banking cartel decides the time is right and migrate to mainland Europe along with the carmakers, then the leave voters will have what they asked for - sovereignty outside of the EU. They'll have bucketloads of the stuff!

news

Tom

With Zero calorie contents too!

 

[oldgroaner]

EFTA membership is like keyhole surgery. Maybe not as good as the traditional method but the healing process is much quicker.

But simply it is only delaying the inevitable and only temporarily addresses financial questions, not social or long term future ones and can only be regarded as a blind alley we will have to reverse out of.
Why are we heading into a worse situation than we are in already?
Madness

 

[Woosh]

But simply it is only delaying the inevitable and only temporarily addresses financial questions, not social or long term future ones and can only be regarded as a blind alley we will have to reverse out of.
Why are we heading into a worse situation than we are in already?
Madness

The idea of a supra-government is intolerable to roughly half the voters and they won the last vote. So if there is a cost, I am afraid the right thing to do is to cough up the money for the divorce bill, accept all additional costs and make the best of what is available. It's no different when you have to sell your shares in a company.
If somehow Labour or Conservatives manage to call a new referendum, then we'll look at what is possible again.
you can't please all the people in politics because we are all different.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
"
Brexit: Jacob Rees-Mogg defends Ireland move by City firm he co-founded ahead of EU withdrawal
Brexit negotiations may cause 'considerable uncertainty', the firm's prospectus warns

As the Airliner goes into a steep dive the Captain's voice comes over the intercom.

"We have encountered a technical malfunction, but not to worry.
If you look out of the window you will see below two Parachutes.
The Co-pilot and I have gone to get help.

Have a nice day and thank you for flying RusskiBrexit Airlines"

 

[oldgroaner]

The idea of a supra-government is intolerable to roughly half the voters and they won the last vote. So if there is a cost, I am afraid the right thing to do is to cough up the money for the divorce bill, accept all additional costs and make the best of what is available. It's no different when you have to sell your shares in a company.
If somehow Labour or Conservatives manage to call a new referendum, then we'll look at what is possible again.
you can't please all the people in politics because we are all different.

The notion that the EU "supra government" is intolerable isn't bourne out by Polling results over the years where stay or leave had very wide swings in both directions
https://theconversation.com/polling-history-40-years-of-british-views-on-in-or-out-of-europe-61250

Interesting, yes?

 

[Danidl]

We are not that daft, we would have rejoined before that happens.

Can you not see the disconnect? If one is anticipating rejoining, why leave?
But the very serious point is that industrial prowess , once lost is difficult to regain. If and when car assemblers leave the UK, they take with them an infrastructure, and car designers soon follow. For the automobile industry you can substitute almost any other high tech activity. The world moves on and without the constant impetus of innovation ,entire industries are left behind. The assumption that a car industry can be mothballed and then reawakened some years later is fantastic.

 

[Woosh]

The notion that the EU "supra government" is intolerable isn't bourne out by Polling results over the years where stay or leave had very wide swings in both directions
https://theconversation.com/polling-history-40-years-of-british-views-on-in-or-out-of-europe-61250

Interesting, yes?

it's just an example why leave won. Don't forget that the turnout was exceptionally high, a lot of those who normally wouldn't bother to vote did come out voting. They were usually excluded from polling profiles because they normally don't vote, so you would need to move the whole leave plot up a few percents.

 

[Woosh]

Can you not see the disconnect? If one is anticipating rejoining, why leave?

we need proof of concept.

 

[ianboydsnr]

I think the point is, some in the UK thought we'd just stay in it. Which we clearly can't do. We have to leave, and then sort a new agreement based on our new 3rd country status, and no one knows how long that agreement will take to negotiate, do they. So for a period of time, there is a likelyhood that we'll be out. That isn't a controversial statement is it?

Why couldn’t we stay in?

China are in, Morocco are in, Israel are in, and many others,

What I meant to explain is that the EU using it as a pawn is a mistake, the thing holding back Russia isn’t the 5,000 troops on the border, it’s the symbolism that you take one on you take all on, the value of an EU GPS is that it helps bind the military of Europe together, shared systems and shared technology with a shared focus on what it needs to do, excluding the UK cheapens the product,
The actual system is not that hard to build, the Uk could easily build there own, or join one of the other competing systems, but even if building our own is made technologically better, would still not address the unity in defence that the EU one achieves, but loses if we are not included,

Staying in the EU is the easiest solution to every problem bar the referendum problem,

That doesn’t mean that excluding the UK from the system, or even threatening to do that isn’t a mistake, or that the UK withdrawing from it isn’t a mistake either, it’s a bad idea from both sides, because both benefit from it.

 

[Woosh]

@Danidl

I like EFTA better than the EU in any case.

 

[Woosh]

China are in, Morocco are in, Israel are in, and many others,

they are not 'in' - everyone can use the GPS system but only the EU27 members can get access to high high precision data for military use.
The fuss is about UK being excluded from future work.

 

[ianboydsnr]

they are not 'in' - everyone can use the GPS system but not the high precision for military use.

Not according to what I have read in the past, they paid around half a billion to be in, why would they pay for low level access that anyone can have?

Edit, they have since decided to upgrade their own system, for security reasons, so you are right, but other non EU members remain in, and my thinking it a mistake still stands, and the EU were quite happy for China to be a part of the high precision part.

 

[Woosh]

Not according to what I have read in the past, they paid around half a billion to be in, why would they pay for low level access that anyone can have?

for work.
Founding members have the right to bid for work contracts, then there are on-going commercial development opportunities.
The UK will be excluded from the military use of Galileo when we leave. No more contracts until we have a deal.

 

[ianboydsnr]

for work.
Founding members have the right to bid for work contracts, then there are on-going commercial development opportunities.
The UK will be excluded from the military use of Galileo when we leave. No more contracts until we have a deal.

That matters not a lot, when the UK spends our money on building its own, or partners with some other despot state to build its own, like Saudi, or India, or Australia, not that those are despot states,

And it will end up as much of a white elephant as the EU one will become.

 

[Woosh]

That matters not a lot, when the UK spends our money on building its own, or partners with some other despot state to build its own, like Saudi, or India, or Australia, not that those are despot states,

And it will end up as much of a white elephant as the EU one will become.

I reckon it won't come to that.
By this time next year, we'll be out of the EU but in transition. Temper will cool off, the EU will have to face a choice: either create an exit route for unhappy members like Italy or face the UK joining a stronger EFTA.
Last week, Slovenia voted in a majority Eurosceptic.

 

[ianboydsnr]

I reckon it won't come to that.
By this time next year, we'll be out of the EU but in transition. Temper will cool off, the EU will have to face a choice: either create an exit route for unhappy members like Italy or face the UK joining a stronger EFTA.
Last week, Slovenia voted in a majority Eurosceptic.

You’re probably right, I just think it’s part of that big propaganda war, and not that important, a drip feed of dross to keep the pressure up, but some seem to take things like this as hugely important.

When the important thing is that we move to a point where we stay in fully, or we get a reasonable agreement, I am not a lover of being in the EEA, purely because it’s worse than staying in, but is staying in, and I don’t see that as a long term solution, that’s not to say that it couldn’t be a modified EEA solution, in order to sell it to enough of the leavers

 

[flecc]

That matters not a lot, when the UK spends our money on building its own, or partners with some other despot state to build its own, like Saudi, or India, or Australia, not that those are despot states,

And it will end up as much of a white elephant as the EU one will become.

We'll probably continue with our present arrangement for use of the USA's system.

I don't agree that Galileo will be a white elephant. It's a substantial upgrade on the US system which is why the Americans tried their hardest to stop the EU developing it. And not only a military upgrade, consumers will benefit from from more precise location, necessary for many applications outside of traffic directions.
.

 

[ianboydsnr]

We'll probably continue with our present arrangement for use of the USA's system.

I don't agree that Galileo will be a white elephant. It's a substantial upgrade on the US system which is why the Americans tried their hardest to stop the EU developing it. And not only a military upgrade, consumers will benefit from from more precise location, necessary for many applications outside of traffic directions.
.

Consumers won’t get the benefit of the upgrade, the US system is downgraded in its accuracy, the accuracy of the EU system will only be available to the military, the Americans tried to stop it, because to block it means they would block their own system if I remember correctly, and the EU wanted their own to be free from using the American system, it’s unlikely that the Americans won’t upgrade their system anyway, it being ancient now,

However it turns out, the best system is where all European allies are on the same system, everything else is a worse system, worse for the EU and worse for the UK.

They must have been working on it for about 15 years, it must be already out of date.