Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

Remember what I said back in post 29618:

However, I believe Putin would face them down over Syria. He isn't going to just give up his one position of strength in the Middle East. He's shown himself to be a master of the high stakes game and could scare the West over this issue if they push too far.

Putin has just said that Russia will shoot down any incoming missiles into Syria if the West try it, as the US did last time they accused Syria of using chemical weapons.

About time we stopped randomly accusing Russia and Syria of acts we have no idea who carried out, or be prepared for World War 3.
.

The problem with Syria is that we have evil people on one side fighting with complete nut cases on the other, both sides being capable of unimaginable atrocities. Meanwhile, we must look at pictures of innocent civilian men women and children who have drowned in their own mucus as a result of the actions of others.

So do we:

1) Try to remove Assad and leave the civilian population in the hands of maniacs and a country of total chaos. Pretty much what we have achieved in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.

2) Leave Assad to remove the maniacs giving the the civilian population some sort of order, but at the cost of us standing by and watching children exterminated with chemicals.

I can't see any alternatives to the above. I see option 1 as having no end strategy and as being highly likely to escalate, resulting in a potentially biblical loss of life. We have been down that route many times before and it has always failed.

I see option 2 as highly unpalatable, but in the long term the better of the two, resulting in the least loss of life.

I don't think negotiating / talking etc is going to achieve anything. Especially since Donald trump has been on Twitter again.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG
Hows your kasha and tvorog this morning ?

I can't even be bothered to look those words up; your suggestions about Russia are like you. Silly

 

[oldgroaner]

The problem with Syria is that we have evil people on one side fighting with complete nut cases on the other, both sides being capable of unimaginable atrocities. Meanwhile, we must look at pictures of innocent civilian men women and children who have drowned in their own mucus as a result of the actions of others.

So do we:

1) Try to remove Assad and leave the civilian population in the hands of maniacs and a country of total chaos. Pretty much what we have achieved in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.

2) Leave Assad to remove the maniacs giving the the civilian population some sort of order, but at the cost of us standing by and watching children exterminated with chemicals.

I can't see any alternatives to the above. I see option 1 as having no end strategy and as being highly likely to escalate, resulting in a potentially biblical loss of life. We have been down that route many times before and it has always failed.

I see option 2 as highly unpalatable, but in the long term the better of the two, resulting in the least loss of life.

I don't think negotiating / talking etc is going to achieve anything. Especially since Donald trump has been on Twitter again.

I'm with you all the way on this one tillson choice one simply increases the agony and gives us a share of the blame, and ends up creating longer term suffering.
And all for the sake of currying favour with Trump
The Americans can surely call on their Israeli and Saudi friends if they need help.

 

[flecc]

The problem with Syria is that we have evil people on one side fighting with complete nut cases on the other, both sides being capable of unimaginable atrocities. Meanwhile, we must look at pictures of innocent civilian men women and children who have drowned in their own mucus as a result of the actions of others.

So do we:

1) Try to remove Assad and leave the civilian population in the hands of maniacs and a country of total chaos. Pretty much what we have achieved in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.

2) Leave Assad to remove the maniacs giving the the civilian population some sort of order, but at the cost of us standing by and watching children exterminated with chemicals.

I can't see any alternatives to the above. I see option 1 as having no end strategy and as being highly likely to escalate, resulting in a potentially biblical loss of life. We have been down that route many times before and it has always failed.

I see option 2 as highly unpalatable, but in the long term the better of the two, resulting in the least loss of life.

I don't think negotiating / talking etc is going to achieve anything. Especially since Donald trump has been on Twitter again.

I agree that option 2 is the sensible one, and correctly handled would not result in any more gassings etc.

I've just been listening to one of the experts observing how stupid we were back in 2011 to go against Bashir Assad in our delusions of there being an Arab Spring (that last phrase my opinion). As he rightly said, if we'd sided with him instead by letting him stop the rebellion, giving a little help, we'd have a friend and no conflict with Russia there.

Once again as so often, we got it hopelessly wrong, just as we are doing again now with both Russia and Syria.
.

 

[oldtom]

For me, it really is difficult to imagine that a failed Home Secretary, currently occupying the role of Prime Minister, wholly unfit for such office as she is, might lead the UK into another war in the middl-east.

David Schneider, in his inimitable way, describes the problem of having someone like May, a totally untrustworthy political animal, making decisions with ramifications for the people of the UK:



Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Comment in the Daily Mail from a reader
"
Wanderer1876, Nowheresville, United Kingdom, about a minute ago

Blowing the earth off its axis seems a little extreme to try and stop Mueller.

The Right wing press is losing influence on it's readers to a remarkable degree, the resentment at being dragged into another war should surely register among the imbeciles at Conservative party HQ, unless they are intent on electoral Seppuku?

 

[oldgroaner]

Sitrep for April 11th 2018.
We have a Government that has achieved the following

Upset the 51% pro Brexit Voters by incompetence in the Negotiations
Upset the 48% Remainers too by simply going ahead with it, plus the above.

Upset an unknown, but probably a figure in excess of either of those by promising to join in a war started by an American Dementia Sufferer with Narcissist tendencies that we can gain nothing from, in the hope of a disastrous trade deal.

Should this trade deal occur, it will louse up any deal with the EU our biggest Market.
They have also botched up Policing in our cities as icing on the cake, and lying about things is now standard practice.

 

[oldgroaner]

This Tweet from the even more dangerous American idiot than Boris

Much of the bad blood with Russia is caused by the Fake & Corrupt Russia Investigation, headed up by the all Democrat loyalists, or people that worked for Obama. Mueller is most conflicted of all (except Rosenstein who signed FISA & Comey letter). No Collusion, so they go crazy!

How convenient to start a little war to take the heat off himself at home.

 

[oldtom]

Chomsky has identified a major problem in society, probably American primarily but it is our problem too by extension.

The trouble is, by the time the penny drops with the British electorate, we may well have lost members of our armed forces in some foreign land again.



Tom

 

[Zlatan]

I can't even be bothered to look those words up; your suggestions about Russia are like you. Silly

Whereas tosser, plonker, troll and house trained are very mature.

 

[oldtom]

Whereas tosser, plonker, troll and house trained are very mature.

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

Like I said...very mature Tom.

 

[oldgroaner]

Whereas tosser, plonker, troll and house trained are very mature.

Such ingratitude!
When I described you as "House trained"
I was sticking up for you

 

[oldgroaner]

She been twisting reality again on the BBC
"Mrs May described the alleged chemical attack as a "shocking, barbaric act" and said she was "appalled but not surprised" at Russia, which vetoed a US-drafted UN resolution proposing a new inquiry to establish who was to blame.

Actually what happened was this note that the BBC joined in the lie

Russian veto
The information that France had showed "chemical weapons were indeed used and that the regime could clearly be held responsible", Mr Macron added.

On Tuesday the UN Security Council failed to approve moves to set up an inquiry into the alleged attack on Douma.

As permanent members of the council, Russia and the US vetoed each other's proposals to set up independent investigations.

The US-drafted resolution would have allowed investigators to apportion blame for the suspected attack, while Russia's version would have left that to the Security Council.

The Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons had said earlier that inspectors would travel to the town to investigate.

So both the USA and Russia used the power of their Veto

But as they say, never let the truth get in the way of propaganda!

 

[tommie]

Like I said...very mature Tom.

They`re dragging you down to their level Zlat..

I do however rate you at LA Galaxy - you`ll be better thought of there,

Legend!

PS: C`mon Donald, get on with it - finger on that RED button, and Presssss...

 

[Danidl]

They`re dragging you down to their level Zlat..

I do however rate you at LA Galaxy - you`ll be better thought of there,

Legend!

PS: C`mon Donald, get on with it - finger on that RED button, and Presssss...

Even in jest Tommie, your P.S. is not funny. I have been concerned for a long time what the response might be when he might feel the jig was up.

 

[Woosh]

The problem with Syria is that we have evil people on one side fighting with complete nut cases on the other, both sides being capable of unimaginable atrocities. Meanwhile, we must look at pictures of innocent civilian men women and children who have drowned in their own mucus as a result of the actions of others.

So do we:

1) Try to remove Assad and leave the civilian population in the hands of maniacs and a country of total chaos. Pretty much what we have achieved in Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan.

2) Leave Assad to remove the maniacs giving the the civilian population some sort of order, but at the cost of us standing by and watching children exterminated with chemicals.

I can't see any alternatives to the above. I see option 1 as having no end strategy and as being highly likely to escalate, resulting in a potentially biblical loss of life. We have been down that route many times before and it has always failed.

I see option 2 as highly unpalatable, but in the long term the better of the two, resulting in the least loss of life.

I don't think negotiating / talking etc is going to achieve anything. Especially since Donald trump has been on Twitter again.

I see Assad as the lesser of the two evils.

 

[oyster]

The Americans will rescue Holy Brexit with lots of Chlorinated Chickens and other Hormone and Chemical containated food on the cheap?

It all depends on how the chlorinated compounds are delivered. If, as appears, they have been used in Syria, it is easy to condemn and to expect others to do so. But when they are delivered in our food and drink, the guilty parties just gain greater profits.

 

[Danidl]

Back on topic...
It was with some surprise I read in yesterday's Irish times that your minister Davies made a number of comments regarding the Irish government at a recent address in London.
The tenor of these remarks was that..
With the change of government in the republic there was a change in attitude regarding BREXIt , essentially a hardening. And that it was being led by Sinn Fein...
He was also bemoaning the fact that there was no government in northern Ireland.

Now the facts.... There has been no change of government in the republic. What there has been is a well signalled retirement, if anything over protracted, a party election for a new leader, but otherwise business as usual. The new incumbent Leo may be slightly more abrasive than the wily but older Enda, but the policy has not changed one iota.
Any suggestion that there has been a policy change at the behest of SF , is laughable in the extreme. The actual fact is that we have a remarkably stable government , . It is a minority FG government held in place by" a confidence and supply agreement" by an almost equal sized FF party. They agreed a program for government and provided the general terms of that agreement are met, there will be no forced election and the government will last it's term. That basically means that SF have no policy input , and no ministers and are isolated.
What has happened with the NI assembly is primarily the responsibility of the Westminster Parliament, and leaving it to fester for what is a year, is his, as a minister of the Crown and their, his cabinet colleagues collective fault.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Express this morning

"
FURY as Jeremy Corbyn 'plays into hands of Kremlin' by DEMANDING 'peace talks' on Syria
JEREMY Corbyn has been blasted for “playing into the hands of the Kremlin” after demanding Theresa May hold peace talks with Russia on Syria and calling for the Prime Minister to seek Parliament’s approval for airstrikes."

By whom exactly? he's the only one talking sense.

And the readers comments are not following the Government line on this at all.
And a similar pro war report in the Daily Mail met a hostile response from the readers.