Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

..........to which, General De Gaulle said, 'Oh, you think so! I think non and thrice non - so long as there is breath in my body, France will remain independent of the UK. The French people would never forgive me, were I and my government to cede any part of la belle France, geographic, cultural or political to la Grand Bretagne. Vive la différence!'

'We will come to an agreement with our neighbours, Belgium, Italy, Holland, Luxembourg and West Germany and create our own union, a common market, no less! In years to come, you British will be on your knees begging to join us!'

.........more or less, though perhaps not in those exact words.

Tom

.. well not in those words obviously.. apparently this de Gaulle person had a command of French.

 

[oldgroaner]

I agree, which rather undermines the arguments made by some on here that Brexit is a Tory plot which has been calculated to screw workers. As you say, they don't need to leave the EU to do that.

You are conveniently forgetting a raft of favourable legislation on working hours health and safety and holidays we would not have had but for the EU and will quickly lose once out, that they haven't dared attack before.
Sorry tillson your argument is false . BREXIT remains a Tory plot against worker's rights, conditions, benefits and welfare that they would have done while we we in the EU but didn't dare to, and they have said as much, that EU red tape was tying their hands.
It is true that wages are outside the remit of the Social chapter (that we opted out of) but rules on dismissal and Union Membership for instance are not
What Macron is doing is an attempt to level the playing field where those employed in the Public Sector and the private sector have vastly different pay, pension and other benefits.

This by the way is the EU position
http://ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=82
Rights at work

Every EU worker has certain minimum rights relating to:

• health and safety at work: general rights and obligations, workplaces, work equipment, specific risks and vulnerable workers
• equal opportunities for women and men: equal treatment at work, pregnancy, maternity leave, parental leave
• protection against discrimination based on sex, race, religion, age, disability and sexual orientation
• labour law: part-time work, fixed-term contracts, working hours, employment of young people, informing and consulting employees

Individual EU countries must make sure that their national laws protect these rights laid down by EU employment laws (Directives).

The Torys have and will circumvented both the spirit and the actual substance of these laws

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

Jackass and co have been upset by the Brexit committee
This from the Independent
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-trade-eu-theresa-may-business-mps-free-meaningful-vote-a8287141.html
"
Brexit deal should be judged a failure if businesses face ‘additional costs’ for EU trading, MPs warn
Report sets no fewer than 15 tests for success - including no new checks at the Irish border, or weakening of the fight against crime or terrorism"

I don't really know why when the leave Camp promised faithfully we could expect all these things.
"Mr Benn acknowledged they “set a high bar”, but said they were based on the prime minister’s statements on life outside the EU and David Davis’ pledge that “any new deal would be at least as good as what we have now”.

And we know we can rely on Mr Davis's word, Ha Ha Ha

 

[oldtom]

The EU created TUPE purely to protect workers from the worst ravages of the 'real-life monopoly game' played by voracious venture capitalists.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Phew!

(Did you notice - no Russian at all? )

Very suspicious ..........they may have found a way to "foreignise" their DNA.

Just think about that, they could then all get British Passports and come in bringing Mafia money with them.

OH

 

[tillson]

I see that a few hairline cracks are starting to appear in the international condemnation of Russia which May initiated. A senior German minister is asking, shouldn’t one have a certain amount of evidence if you are forcing nearly all NATO countries into solidarity? That seams perfectly reasonable to me.

The trouble is, May doesn’t have any evidence and yet again, the strong and stable ground which she thought she was stood upon is being undermined by scientific fact from Porton Down. How much longer will it be before the hairline cracks become a chasm which leaves the U.K. alone, isolated, vulnerable and with credibility in tatters? We can then look forward dealing with a vengeful Russia who will want their pound of flesh. Theresa May has to apologise, admit that she has made a massive error of judgment and resign. She is dangerous and she is a liability. Whether Russia were involved or not, she did not and still does not have the grounds to take her present course of action. Why is she so blind to the obvious humiliation she is bringing upon herself and the rest of us in the U.K.?

Again, Theresa May underestimates people and assumes that foreign leaders are as useless and incompetent as her and the other fuckwits in the HoC. She has no conception that in some countries people are appointed to high office based on ability and not on birthright, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity or a plethora of other irrelevant factors and targets.

If I were Mr Aitkenhead, I would be very worried about a lady from the 1970s surfacing and claiming that I once grabbed her by the tits. I suppose it’s marginally better than having a Dr David Kelly done on you, but unfortunately for Dr Kelly, the less lethal option of historical tit and @rse touching wasn’t invented until shortly after his death.

 

[Woosh]

How much longer will it be before the hairline cracks become a chasm which leaves the U.K. alone, isolated, vulnerable and with credibility in tatters?

that's the tory's way for you.

 

[flecc]

I agree, which rather undermines the arguments made by some on here that Brexit is a Tory plot which has been calculated to screw workers. As you say, they don't need to leave the EU to do that.

Mainly true, but as you know the Tories have been trying to get rid of the excellent Human Rights Act, which is an EU requirement, and that's been on entirely fictitious grounds.

Their real reason is to ensure we remain subjects and not citizens with rights that they want to remove, so in those respects I support those you are critical of.
.

 

[Danidl]

The Chief Executive of Porton Down has today stated that they could not finally identify the source of the poison, but confirmed it was a Novichok type.

He also stated that the government reached their conclusions from other sources.

Exactly as I posted, politicians smearing long before Porton Down had done their research and Porton Down unwilling to support their conclusion on who was guilty.
.

Since molecules refuse to carry passports, and the statement has to be accurate, scientific credibility demands that. Obviously he was never going to either know or be in position to name the sources, if any, that the UK government used to assign blame. Were he to know, naming these sources, then he would have breached the official secrets act.

 

[flecc]

Were he to know, naming these sources, then he would have breached the official secrets act.

But if knowing, he could without breaching the act say they did know the source, just as I can and have revealed that I've worked in the Porton Down high security establishment without revealing details. (No, I wasn't cleaning the toilets.)

He specifically said they were unable to identify a source, his coded intention quite clear.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Since molecules refuse to carry passports, and the statement has to be accurate, scientific credibility demands that. Obviously he was never going to either know or be in position to name the sources, if any, that the UK government used to assign blame. Were he to know, naming these sources, then he would have breached the official secrets act.

Since the Prime Minister must be aware of this act, you have to ask why she thought invoking Porton Down in the affair and pressing them for a form of words to implicate Russia, could ever be viewed by anyone other than a vague attempt to gain credibility for her position, when it is obvious to all that no help from them can ever be expected.

The irony here is that she too is covered by the act so therefore can't in theory demand they lie to support her.

In fact it is a very moot point as to whether she was within her rights to release the information that Porton Down know about Novichoc, who developed it, what it is and in what countries.
Knowledge such as that could be used by an enemy!
Isn't that why we have the officlal secrets act?
Porton Down must have thrown their hands up in horror when brought into the Public Gaze for propaganda purposes!
Hells teeth surely such information should be covered by the act?
And as a postscript on the affair, reading the Comments from readers of the Right wing papers is educational, as support for here story has dropped from more than >70% in favourable readers comments to <10%.
Support has frittered away as each version of the story becomes more far fetched than the last.

 

[oldgroaner]

But if knowing, he could without breaching the act say they did know the source, just as I can and have revealed that I've worked in the Porton Down high security establishment without revealing details. (No, I wasn't cleaning the toilets.)

He specifically said they were unable to identify a source, his coded intention quite clear.
.

I suspect that before long being opposed to Brexit will be covered by the Official Secrets Act
Make sure to leave the back door unlocked, just in case
Black cars pull up outside and heavies in Shades knock loudly on the front door
And keep one of these in the kitchen

So you can slip it on on the way out

 

[flecc]

It's just been revealed that Porton Down did not say the material was military grade and Twitter amendments have had to be made, much to the government's embarrassment.

It was our Ambassador to Russia saying that originally, though why a diplomat would assume such knowledge without access to the material isn't clear!

Somehow our pathetic government mixed up the two sources in their statements, Russia instantly seizing on that error.

From the entirety of what has happened, I'm completely satisfied that Russia had nothing to do with the poisoning on this occasion, despite their past record in these matters. It's most likely they've been conveniently framed, perhaps partly as retribution for the acquisition of The Crimea.
.

 

[Woosh]

Since molecules refuse to carry passports, and the statement has to be accurate, scientific credibility demands that. Obviously he was never going to either know or be in position to name the sources, if any, that the UK government used to assign blame. Were he to know, naming these sources, then he would have breached the official secrets act.

they do a number of tests beside the usual gas chromatography, IR spectrometry, mass spectrometry and gamma spectrometry to get to other compounds beside the poison or poisons, such as traces of special solvents, radioactive traces and biological traces.
If they could pin it on the Russians, I reckon they would. The head of Porton Down has gone beyond scientific findings by including 'Russia' in his TV appearance.

 

[oldgroaner]

It's just been revealed that Porton Down did not say the material was military grade and Twitter amendments have had to be made, much to the government's embarrassment.

It was our Ambassador to Russia saying that originally, though why a diplomat would assume such knowledge without access to the material isn't clear!

Somehow our pathetic government mixed up the two sources in their statements, Russia instantly seizing on that error.

From the entirety of what has happened, I'm completely satisfied that Russia had nothing to do with the poisoning on this occasion, despite their past record in these matters. It's most likely they've been conveniently framed, perhaps partly as retribution for the acquisition of The Crimea.
.

Oh for crying out loud! what the heck has TM done to our reputation?
We have been made to look utter fools.
Who will believe us again after such a transparent shambles?
"The Mouse that roared?
No
The Mouse that cried Wolf once too often.

 

[flecc]

Oh for crying out loud! what the heck has TM done to our reputation?
We have been made to look utter fools.
Who will believe us again after such a transparent shambles?
"The Mouse that roared?
No
The Mouse that cried Wolf once too often.

Russia has demanded representation in an examination of this affair and that has been granted at the Hague, the home of the International Court.

The UK government has really cocked this one up, with the EU foolish enough to have joined in.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

TM has found a Scapegoat
"
Foreign Office forced to admit it DELETED tweet falsely claiming Porton Down confirmed nerve agent was 'produced in Russia'

Both Boris Johnson and the Foreign Office are now accused of saying Porton Down confirmed the Novichok used on Sergei Skripal was from Russia"

You can watch Boris hang himself here
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-accused-misleading-public-12302193


Now we know why she didn't sack him before!

Remember when that goes viral, you read it here first!

 

[tillson]

Oh for crying out loud! what the heck has TM done to our reputation?
We have been made to look utter fools.

Absolutely. Many other countries have shown a great deal of good-will towards the UK and put their faith in what May & Johnson have told them regarding this Salisbury poisoning incident. The pair of them have let us all down and made this country appear foolish & unreliable. They will have also tainted and embarrased other nations with their acts of stupidity because those nations hadn't quite grasped what a liability Teresa May is. I'm sure they have the measure of her now.

Both May and Johnson should resign over this, they are totally unfit to represent this country.

 

[oldgroaner]

If this isn't a Political suicide note for Boris i don't know what is, there on the Video he said
The Context was the reporter was asking if we had samples and were sure they came from Russia.
Boris replied
"People from Porton Down were absoutely categorical I asked the guy myself are you sure? and they said "There's no doubt"

Watch TM ditch him over the side of the Titanic wearing a concrete overcoat and give the performance of her life protesting her innocence!

What new catastrophe real, imagined or manufactured will come to her rescue after the failure of "Falklands Mark 2?"

Strongly Unstable is the correct description, the Torys are becoming a very expensive and now dangerous deadweight.
A vote of no confidence rather than resignations and new elections to follow would be best.
This is what Corbyn has to say

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-accused-misleading-public-12302193
Here is the original tweet, Courtesy of the Russian Embassy (you have to laugh)

 

[oldgroaner]

Just in the nick of time some good news for the Government .......Perhaps......
"
Vauxhall announces new investment in Luton plant despite Brexit uncertainty
The carmaker's chief executive said the investment was a 'major milestone'
And of course it is: at least the jobs there are safe for a while as are the ones in support industries.
Naturally that is very good news, even if the result is only temporary
Ignoring the convenience for the Government at this time, let's look at what has actually happened

1. Money and or other inducements have been applied by the Govenment to grease the decision for Vauxhall to continue, odd that they have suddenly developed enthusiasm for something that previously was regarded as Anathema, and the Unions have guaranteed some accomodation from the workforce....no doubt involving some loss to them either financial or otherwise, just how the Tory Government intend the future to be for the workers, subdued and worse off.
   
2. There would have been considerable expense in moving the process out of the country, that the Company have avoided, and there won't be a tariff problem while we remain in the EU and during the transition period
3. The boss of the actual owners made it quite plain that everything is dependent on no change to access to and from the EU.
4. Evidently he has been assured that BRINO is on the cards.
5. This is evidently just a temporary expedient when he used the expression "into the next decade" and it has no effect on the Astra plant

So we have a Welcome but temporary stay of execution where the future is entirely dependent on an advantageous EU trading arrangement.

What is surprising is that he is willing to trust this Government to keep it's word.
Naturally other companies will now jump on this bandwagon for the freebies it will bring, one has to wonder how much it will cost us, the taxpayers, and how much it will cost the workforce.

Not getting the hard Brexit desired isn't going to sit well with Jackass, Boris, Gollum and co, though they do have a bit of a dilemna of how to play this and not appear to be against jobs being protected.
For if they press for a Hard Brexit now this deal will be dead in the water.
It will be interesting to see how that faction react.

Watch the Murdoch press blazon it as a fantastic Brexit Boom.
My take on this? Good news of a temporary reprieve for a lot of people and welcome for what it turns out to be worth, for however long it lasts, but not without costs to us and the workforce.

In the long term, not a permanent solution to the problem, it really makes you wonder what the company have been promised and bribed with, and the workers have been forced to accept.
I wonder if any of them voted for Brexit?

And it couldn't have come at a better time for TM and co, could it?

And all this is because of the mad decision from the Brexit Referendum, the Ultimate own goal for the working class.