Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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And I think that and union desirable, which of course is why we disagree on all these points.

If we don't eventually rejoin the EU or join another major power, we'll be nowhere, just an irrelevance in a world of future large powers.
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What baffles me is why the nation that had the largest empire in history is afraid of belonging to something bigger than itself

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Woosh

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What baffles me is why the nation that had the largest empire in history is afraid of belonging to something bigger than itself

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in such a construct, the UK won't be the leader next to France and Germany.
We can't have that can we?
 

flecc

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Just read London has overtaken New York in murders last month as well! I am rarely moved to comment on this forum but there we are.
Just tripped over a chart of the crime rates in the UK metropolitan areas, a bit dated but the facts haven't changed much.

London's rate the lowest at 1.1 per 100,000 persons.

Greater Manchester 1.9

West Midlands 1.6

Merseyside 2.2

And the rest all over 2 per 100,000 and the national rate at 1.4 also higher than London's.

Sort of puts the hysteria about this current spike in London into perspective.

Link
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Woosh

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Ever the optimist! Surely we are supposed to be doing all this to make our situation better?

Tom
time is the essence - in a weird way.
I'd like nothing more than UK and France form a single country, but not with Germany as well.
 

flecc

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I'd like nothing more than UK and France form a single country, but not with Germany as well.
That's already happened it seems, here's Churchill's words spoken on 16th June 1940 and with full French agreement:

"The two governments declare that France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations but one Franco-British Union. The constitution of the union will provide for joint organs of defence, foreign and financial and economic policy. Every citizen of France will enjoy immediately citizenship of Great Britain, every British citizen will become a citizen of France."

Not sure why no-one takes any notice of this fait accompli.
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oldgroaner

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That's already happened it seems, here's Churchill's words spoken on 16th June 1940 and with full French agreement:

"The two governments declare that France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations but one Franco-British Union. The constitution of the union will provide for joint organs of defence, foreign and financial and economic policy. Every citizen of France will enjoy immediately citizenship of Great Britain, every British citizen will become a citizen of France."

Not sure why no-one takes any notice of this fait accompli.
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It was never ratified as the Germans came en masse in the Traditional way and interrupted proceedings, though they did make an offer of their own.

If we joined with them we could keep our colonies,including even theirs we had stolen at the end of the First World War

After Dunkirk the public mood turned against the idea and seeing the way the wind was blowing suddenly as if in an Epiphany Fascism became far less acceptable to the Rothermere Press , King Edward and the Conservative Party.than the current EU arrangement is today , even though they had previously been big fans of AH and co.

A new surge of Patriotic Ardour was de Rigeur!

I suspect that what put them off the previous approach was the fear that the Public might use them for decorating Lamp posts with lengths of Rope.

Fortunately for the Country Churchill was wily enough to turn to Attlee and the Labour Party for support to prevent a surrender by the cowardly Conservatives, who had run out of Countries they could give to Hitler in the vain hope of buying "Peace in our Time" on a piece of toilet paper.

And when after Brexit the Proverbial hit's the fan, the same trusty instinct for self preservation will give rise to a clamour from the Press and Conservatives to rejoin the EU, (by which time they will have moved the money in their offshore Tax havens somewhere safer and sold off what little remains of this country's assets and infrastructure.)


History is fun, isn't it?
And the Wages of sin tucked for safety in an Offshore Tax Haven.
 

flecc

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surrender by the cowardly Conservatives, who had run out of Countries they could give to Hitler
Were they cowardly, or were they sometimes closet fascists? We had no shortage of them on the right wing. With Hitler admiring Britain's Empire achievements and at one time seeing us a possible partner, some may have that ambition.
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tillson

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Just tripped over a chart of the crime rates in the UK metropolitan areas, a bit dated but the facts haven't changed much.

London's rate the lowest at 1.1 per 1000 persons.

Greater Manchester 1.9

West Midlands 1.6

Merseyside 2.2

And the rest all over 2 per 1000 and the national rate at 1.4 also higher than London's.

Sort of puts the hysteria about this January and February spike in London into perspective.

Link
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Don’t those figures relate to all forms of crime. London does seem to be a hot spot for the crime of murder.

An interesting statistic would be murder per square metre. With all those people crammed in on top of each other and more arriving daily from goodness knows where, I should imagine that you are never far from a murder scene in London.
 
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Woosh

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An interesting statistic would be murder per square metre.
Southend is not specially high on crimes, yet, we have had two murders in Gordon Road, within 50m of our shop in Queens Road in the last 5 years and none before (we have been in this shop for more than 20 years).
 

flecc

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Don’t those figures relate to all forms of crime. London does seem to be a hot spot for the crime of murder.
No it's not a hot spot for murder, we do major in some other crimes. Scroll down low on the link I gave to Metropolitan force comparisons and you'll see those figures are in the first column for murder, all other areas including nationally worse.

The later columns give the other crimes for the Metropolitan areas.

Here's the link again.
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anotherkiwi

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When I was a student there were two axe murders in my street in Wellington, one being under my bedroom window... :eek: Fortunately I was at the pub at the time. Axe murder is a traditional Pacific Islander thing :(

Is that far enough of topic? Non brexit, non Uk... :p
 

oldgroaner

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When I was a student there were two axe murders in my street in Wellington, one being under my bedroom window... :eek: Fortunately I was at the pub at the time. Axe murder is a traditional Pacific Islander thing :(

Is that far enough of topic? Non brexit, non Uk... :p
you must try harder if you mean to give Zlatan competition :D
 
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flecc

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The Chief Executive of Porton Down has today stated that they could not finally identify the source of the poison, but confirmed it was a Novichok type.

He also stated that the government reached their conclusions from other sources.

Exactly as I posted, politicians smearing long before Porton Down had done their research and Porton Down unwilling to support their conclusion on who was guilty.
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oldgroaner

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I see the Russians are requesting a meeting with the OPCW over the poisoning affair.
There appears to be a reaction to the "Falklands Mark Two" ploy .
Russia and Turkey are getting very cosy....not exactly a good outcome for us, but predictable that they feel driven together by the hostility of other nations.
 

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