Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

More misquoting. I've not argued that he would never get in power, indeed I've posted that he is very likely to win the next general election.

If you wish to quote, do the decent thing as I do and use the forum's quote facility to display the actual words posted.
.

You,as normal, misunderstand me.The latter part of that sentence is my opinion, but I agree its ambiguous.
I dont think JC will ever get in power. He might have last time had he had stronger policies regarding leaving and more worldy ones regarding defence.
I,ll edit my earlier post to clarify.

Think you should perhaps respond to my points rather than search for quotation faults. ie) What is alternative to May ?
At the moment its May or Corbyn. The country will choose May even with all her faults over Corbyn all day long.
Yes ,JC comes over a pleasant , trustworthy sincere man with all the right attitudes towards wealth distribution...then again so does bloke who runs our corner shop and he,ll never be PM either.

Corbyn is trying to convert people to the left, it wont work. We need a Labour politician who represents the values and politics of vast majority of voters. No matter how high extreme left claim their moral stance to be people are realists and pragmatic. Our country simply is not far enough left to have JC PM, no matter what Tom ,OG Frankie Boyle etc etc claim.
Its beyond high time Labour got realistic and pragmatic. They need to centralise or stay in wilderness for years more.

 

[Woosh]

JC may not have enough votes for a majority at the next GE but I can see JC becoming PM of a coalition left slanted government (Labour, SNP, LibDems, Green, Cymru).

 

[oldgroaner]

2i'm

As normal you cant express an opinion without juvenile references. I,m perfectly sure Tillson and I are capable of having different opinions without resorting to insult, which somehow escapes many on here.

Oh so you don't uses terms like Ogski?
Not an insult? not Juvenile? and you did it to flecc with fleccski which he regards as a insult, and quite righly too.
you have called me mad among other things too
Who are you kidding? you are simply incapable of not resorting to insults and while acutely aware on any coming your way, utterly unaware of the fact you are the worst offender.
Despite a million words what you have to say boils down to this

1. You want a Pink Tory Government
2. Brexit will give you an opportunity for some profit making
   
3. You hate Putin/Juncker/ etc ., etc
4. You are not prepared to require proof to support your arguments
5. After all this time, when accidentally you post ON TOPIC you still can't offer a convincing argument in Brexit's Favour.

You remind me of this saying

"I'm a bit of a Bull*****r myself
But I'm always happy to listen to an acknowledged Expert
Please feel free to continue"

 

[flecc]

What is alternative to May ?

Since I've already twice posted that and you have acknowledged those posts, why should I repeat myself? But I will try once again repeating what I posted to make it clear:

Jeremy Corbyn is likely to win, not because of his policies, but by default due to the increasing failures of the Tories.

The ever increasing disappointment of Leavers with the many Brexit failings agreed to (fisheries, paying in money, immigration etc), the chaotic NHS situation, the continuing austerity and threats to the welfare state and the obvious unsuitability of Theresa May to be a Prime Minister are likely to produce three reactions:

A poor turnout to vote by normally staunch Tories.

A swing to Labour by those on the left of the Tory spectrum who are increasingly concerned about the NHS and other welfare aspects

A greater determination by Labour supporters to vote.

With the Lib-Dems unable to recover and the Tories increasingly unacceptable to many, Labour is the only major party left to turn to, so they'll benefit from the government's failings.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

You,as normal, misunderstand me.The latter part of that sentence is my opinion, but I agree its ambiguous.
I dont think JC will ever get in power. He might have last time had he had stronger policies regarding leaving and more worldy ones regarding defence.
I,ll edit my earlier post to clarify.

Think you should perhaps respond to my points rather than search for quotation faults. ie) What is alternative to May ?
At the moment its May or Corbyn. The country will choose May even with all her faults over Corbyn all day long.
Yes ,JC comes over a pleasant , trustworthy sincere man with all the right attitudes towards wealth distribution...then again so does bloke who runs our corner shop and he,ll never be PM either.

Corbyn is trying to convert people to the left, it wont work. We need a Labour politician who represents the values and politics of vast majority of voters. No matter how high extreme left claim their moral stance to be people are realists and pragmatic. Our country simply is not far enough left to have JC PM, no matter what Tom ,OG Frankie Boyle etc etc claim.
Its beyond high time Labour got realistic and pragmatic. They need to centralise or stay in wilderness for years more.

It really doesn't matter as Brexit will (according to you) be a wonderful success and solve all problems,which is no doubt why you voted for it, in the knowledge as you keep pointing out that the Conservatives will remain in power.

Now who would be silly enough to Vote for Brexit in the full and certain knowledge the Conservatives will run the country for the conceivable future, if they were not convinced the Tory's can make it work out for the best?

What's your answer to that?
Were you having a bad day when you voted?

And you wonder why I find you amusing.
Now that is Funny!

 

[oldgroaner]

You,as normal, misunderstand me.The latter part of that sentence is my opinion, but I agree its ambiguous.
I dont think JC will ever get in power. He might have last time had he had stronger policies regarding leaving and more worldy ones regarding defence.
I,ll edit my earlier post to clarify.

Think you should perhaps respond to my points rather than search for quotation faults. ie) What is alternative to May ?
At the moment its May or Corbyn. The country will choose May even with all her faults over Corbyn all day long.
Yes ,JC comes over a pleasant , trustworthy sincere man with all the right attitudes towards wealth distribution...then again so does bloke who runs our corner shop and he,ll never be PM either.

Corbyn is trying to convert people to the left, it wont work. We need a Labour politician who represents the values and politics of vast majority of voters. No matter how high extreme left claim their moral stance to be people are realists and pragmatic. Our country simply is not far enough left to have JC PM, no matter what Tom ,OG Frankie Boyle etc etc claim.
Its beyond high time Labour got realistic and pragmatic. They need to centralise or stay in wilderness for years more.

While you are at it, why not edit ALL of your previous posts?

 

[Zlatan]

Tonight’s Times has a YouGov poll conducted on Wednesday night and Thursday daytime, giving us our first steer on the public reaction to the poisoning in Salisbury.

" 73% of people in the poll think that Russia is responsible for the poisoning, 21% are unsure, 5% don’t think it was Russia. There is also broad public support for the government’s reaction – 60% support the measures they’ve announced so far and 14% are opposed. Asking more specifically about the response of the party leaders, 53% think Theresa May has responded well to the incident, 23% badly; 18% think Jeremy Corbyn has responded well, 39% badly (and 43% don’t know)."


Sort of sums up the out of line general opinion on here doesn't it..

Lets just say that again..
Only 18% think Corbyn has reacted well and 53% think May has ?
Now I wonder
A) What that poll would look like taken in here.
B) Come next election which leader will be remembered by public as responding well.
Yes,I think Corbyn is a good man etc etc. Its irrelevant. Its another issue, rightly or wrongly, where Corbyn has reduced his chances of getting into no10.

And not that it matters at moment with no GE in sight but there has been a swing back to Conservative. Which at this stage of government's time in power is unusual.
OG, Flecc and whoever can keep on knocking May and how she,s handled this episode but the fact is general public think differently. I,m not for a moment saying that makes either side just but it gives a massive indication for future Tennant of no 10.

Only 14% of public think May has handled this episode badly...
Now tell me May is useless ...

So OG when you start insulting me for " thinking" Russia is responsible you are having a go at 73% of population.
But you know best...
My worst insult is calling you OGski and Flecc Fleecski ...get a life. I think the modern term is snowflake..(s)
Rather ironic when some can't post without calling May a bitch and Tom alikens Queen to Myra Hindley...none of which raised a comment from either of you.

And you,ll also notice although Tillson and I have regularly disagreed there has been no insults swapped...now I wonder why you and I cant post without doing so..

 

[flecc]

And you,ll also notice although Tillson and I have regularly disagreed there has been no insults swapped...

So why do your insult me by very misleading distortion of my forum name when all I've done is disagree with you?
.

 

[Zlatan]

So why do your insult me by very misleading distortion of my forum name when all I've done is disagree with you?
.

Your unswerving support of Russia; dictators in general, specifically Tito led me to believe you were infact quite a Trotsky. Which I still believe. I think your support of Putin and insulting tone to Wicki who obviously had more knowledge than any of us about Crimean was uncalled for.( I said so at time).
You were at best patronising towards his response, the one he mentioned his family history in. Seems tome Flecc you are apt to dismiss and patronise posters , accepted in a clever way, but still insulting none the less. I notice Wicki has since stopped posting !
To be fair it was initially said in humour, after my posting about 150, 000 Russian bots posting on european sites.

 

[oldgroaner]

Tonight’s Times has a YouGov poll conducted on Wednesday night and Thursday daytime, giving us our first steer on the public reaction to the poisoning in Salisbury.

" 73% of people in the poll think that Russia is responsible for the poisoning, 21% are unsure, 5% don’t think it was Russia. There is also broad public support for the government’s reaction – 60% support the measures they’ve announced so far and 14% are opposed. Asking more specifically about the response of the party leaders, 53% think Theresa May has responded well to the incident, 23% badly; 18% think Jeremy Corbyn has responded well, 39% badly (and 43% don’t know)."


Sort of sums up the out of line general opinion on here doesn't it..

Lets just say that again..
Only 18% think Corbyn has reacted well and 53% think May has ?
Now I wonder
A) What that poll would look like taken in here.
B) Come next election which leader will be remembered by public as responding well.
Yes,I think Corbyn is a good man etc etc. Its irrelevant. Its another issue, rightly or wrongly, where Corbyn has reduced his chances of getting into no10.

And not that it matters at moment with no GE in sight but there has been a swing back to Conservative. Which at this stage of government's time in power is unusual.
OG, Flecc and whoever can keep on knocking May and how she,s handled this episode but the fact is general public think differently. I,m not for a moment saying that makes either side just but it gives a massive indication for future Tennant of no 10.

Only 14% of public think May has handled this episode badly...
Now tell me May is useless ...

So OG when you start insulting me for " thinking" Russia is responsible you are having a go at 73% of population.
But you know best...
My worst insult is calling you OGski and Flecc Fleecski ...get a life. I think the modern term is snowflake..(s)
Rather ironic when some can't post without calling May a bitch and Tom alikens Queen to Myra Hindley...none of which raised a comment from either of you.

And you,ll also notice although Tillson and I have regularly disagreed there has been no insults swapped...now I wonder why you and I cant post without doing so..

 

[Zlatan]

Your last post said nothing OG.
Nothing new I suppose.

 

[oldgroaner]

Tonight’s Times has a YouGov poll conducted on Wednesday night and Thursday daytime, giving us our first steer on the public reaction to the poisoning in Salisbury.

" 73% of people in the poll think that Russia is responsible for the poisoning, 21% are unsure, 5% don’t think it was Russia. There is also broad public support for the government’s reaction – 60% support the measures they’ve announced so far and 14% are opposed. Asking more specifically about the response of the party leaders, 53% think Theresa May has responded well to the incident, 23% badly; 18% think Jeremy Corbyn has responded well, 39% badly (and 43% don’t know)."


Sort of sums up the out of line general opinion on here doesn't it..

Lets just say that again..
Only 18% think Corbyn has reacted well and 53% think May has ?
Now I wonder
A) What that poll would look like taken in here.
B) Come next election which leader will be remembered by public as responding well.
Yes,I think Corbyn is a good man etc etc. Its irrelevant. Its another issue, rightly or wrongly, where Corbyn has reduced his chances of getting into no10.

And not that it matters at moment with no GE in sight but there has been a swing back to Conservative. Which at this stage of government's time in power is unusual.
OG, Flecc and whoever can keep on knocking May and how she,s handled this episode but the fact is general public think differently. I,m not for a moment saying that makes either side just but it gives a massive indication for future Tennant of no 10.

Only 14% of public think May has handled this episode badly...
Now tell me May is useless ...

So OG when you start insulting me for " thinking" Russia is responsible you are having a go at 73% of population.
But you know best...
My worst insult is calling you OGski and Flecc Fleecski ...get a life. I think the modern term is snowflake..(s)
Rather ironic when some can't post without calling May a bitch and Tom alikens Queen to Myra Hindley...none of which raised a comment from either of you.

And you,ll also notice although Tillson and I have regularly disagreed there has been no insults swapped...now I wonder why you and I cant post without doing so..

Why would the opinion of 73% of the population have any impression on my logical processes?
What an odd thing to say!
And May and co seem to have nobbled Corbyn with the only partial reveal of the information so he said "We need more proof" in the knowledge that Tory press would blow that up into a Scoop!
I have already outlined why May has handled this badly but you are either unwilling or unable to see that all she has done is inflate her own standing at the expense of both Corbyn and increasing world tension.
This is the same Woman who kills by order our own citizens if they join ISIS in Foreign lands, yet shouts about "outraged" morals when someone else does the same thing here (apparently)
As to raising comments,where are yours regarding the fact that you voted for Brexit seemingly absolutely certain Corbyn will never get into power?
Perhaps the replacement for him turns out even further left, what becomes of Brexit in the hands of the Tory party then?
And where is your evidence for the advantages Brexit will bring?

Time to get posts on this thread back on Topic, instead of these tempting but irrelevant smokescreens of yours.

 

[oldgroaner]

Your last post said nothing OG.
Nothing new I suppose.

The internet connection dropped, I have since responded again

 

[Zlatan]

OG
To answer some of your points.
Pink Tory Government. No a left of centre Labour would be best.
Brexit will give me an opportunity to profit.
Doubtful my business is sorting Probate out on large Estates . My " interest" business was smashed to bits by Irma.
I hate Putin/ Junker. Not quite , frightened of Putin hold other in complete contempt.
I dont require proof for my arguments. Correct, opinions do not require proof. They become facts after proof. I,ve told you that 4 times now.
Convincing argument fir Brexit. Totally depends who I am trying to convince. I,ve seen enough corruption, poverty, crime, social injustice around EU to be convinced myself Brexit is a positive step.

Why would the opinion of 73% of the population have any impression on my logical processes?
They dont, nothing can. Point was telling me I,m easily led astray and incapable of logical thought is saying same to those 73% who also THINK Russia is responsible.

 

[Zlatan]

The internet connection dropped, I have since responded again

You should have left it...first response was much better.

 

[flecc]

Your unswerving support of Russia; dictators in general, specifically Tito led me to believe you were infact quite a Trotsky. Which I still believe.

How strange then that I have voted Conservative more times than I've voted Labour in my long life. Makes me a rather weird Trotskyite, especially since I'll be voting Conservative on May 3rd.

What I've done in my posts about Putin, Tito and dictators in general is point out the positives in order to balance the extreme views, gross bias and even lies being told elsewhere.

Fair impartial judgement would accept that, Tillson clearly did when agreeing one of those posts, but it seems your extreme anti-left views makes that impossible.
.

 

[Zlatan]

"How strange then that I have voted Conservative more times than I've voted Labour in my long life. Makes me a rather weird Trotskyite, especially since I'll be voting Conservative on May 3rd."

Now there is a revelation. Cant quite believe it..Hope Tom and OG are reading....

By the way..I,m anti extreme left ...not extreme anti left. I,ve never voted Conservative and never will. The extreme left are doing you tories a big favour..
Well I never. Flecc a tory. Think I,ll have a drink on that flecc. There's me, defending May because I actually think she,s decent for a tory and inherited an almost impossible job; has had some terrible events to deal with and all in all has come out well, and has gained rather than lost popularity...even though I,m a devout labour voter..( more so than lib Dem OG)..Yet I,ve been labelled pink tory.
What next. Tom and Tillson secret May supporters.
This is going to alter the whole ethos on here. Still cant believe it.

 

[flecc]

Now there is a revelation. Cant quite believe it..Hope Tom and OG are reading....

I don't mind if they are, I almost typed the words "much to Tom's distress" after saying how I would vote on May 3rd, but decided not to be provocative.

In voting Zlatan, I take a fair and balanced view, just as I do on all issues.

I detest bigotry and it has no part in my makeup.
.

 

[Zlatan]

I don't mind of they are, I almost typed the words "much to Tom's distress" after saying how I would vote on May 3rd, but decided not to be provocative.

In voting Zlatan, I take a fair and balanced view, just as I do on all issues.

I detest bigotry and it has no part in my makeup.
.

I admire your conviction Flecc and your situation very much backs up my feelings around voting, brexit and even this poisoning .
Folk say all kinds of things in public ; in private and on here..but once in voting booth you do what you think best but can then go back to saying whatever you like. Its exactly what happened in Brexit and will happen in next election.
I must admit your revelation has left me rather puzzled about your stance on Corbyn ? I think ?
I do apologise for my comment. It was meant in jest. I know you are a sincere poster. Take care. I,m off for a lay down.. and a beer.

 

[flecc]

I must admit your revelation has left me rather puzzled about your stance on Corbyn ?

My defence of Corbyn is based on the obvious fact that he is a decent man being targeted with all manner of gross lies and distortions on an "anything will do" basis.

He is a true socialist who, like so many on both sides of the political divide, when young had much stronger political convictions. But he is no longer young and has moderated, but having to suffer the past being dragged up all the time as if it were the present.

On present indications I will be voting for Labour at the next general election, as I did at the recent one, helping to elect our new MP with a record breaking large majority. That vote of mine and of many others was against the Theresa May government, and why she lost her majority nationally.

So you can see I'm not a Tory, not Labour, not a Trotskyite or Communist. I vote according to the need I perceive.
.