Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Food for thoughts this morning:

quote

Many Britons believe the empire was a good thing. A 2014 YouGov poll of 1,741 people across Britain showed 59% felt the empire was something to be proud of and only 19% thought it was something to be ashamed of. Almost half the respondents felt the colonies were better off for being colonised; only 15% felt they were worse off.

end quote

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/mar/10/empire-strikes-back-why-former-colonies-dont-need-britain-after-brexit

the fault is clearly how history is taught in the UK.

While it certainly didn't help, that background had far less influence, bad enough as it was (some of us remember Empire Day lessons at School) than the daily propaganda versions of historical events in the printed media, and allegedly Historically accurate movies

History lessons are generally not so influential as this Daily drip feed of nonsense is.

 

[oldgroaner]

Splendid Matt cartoon in the Telegraph this morning.

Excellent!

 

[tillson]

Robinson on the TV,took a pack of cards to Mansfield Notts ,70% Leave voting area. He showed the cards to an older couple and asked which people should be want to retain in the UK...
He showed the lady a chef....her reply,we are short of those.
a care worker......definitely got to keep those
a farm worker......we need those to harvest the crops
a nurse.........very important we need more nurses.
He pointed out to this woman that she wanted to retain every EU worker he had shown her,so which workers should we restrict....the lady was dumbstruck
So her turned to the guy and asked why he voted Leave....he said we can make our own laws. So he asked which EU law he wanted rid of?....he was dumbstruck.
So why did you vote leave...we can take back control.!!!!!
But we are supposed to respect these stupid people.
KudosDave

I don’t know what relevance the card trick has. Could you explain which bit I am supposed to be impressed by?

From your account, the question posed was, “which people should we retain in the U.K.?” (I’ve assumed that you made a Typo). The implication being mass deportation of all EU nationals. This presupposes that prior to the Brexit vote, people were told that EU workers in the fields of medicine, hospitality & catering, agriculture and social care would be deported. This is untrue and you know it to be so. So why are you promoting an agenda which you know to be based on a lie? It was made very clear that the U.K. would like more control over immigration so that the right skills and talent could be attracted and retained. In effect, that was precisely what the couple were doing, identifying people with skills which the U.K. would very much like to attract and retain.

Statistically, the couple from Mansfield are likely to be poorly educated, but not stupid as you smugly imply. In that area, schooling would have been orientated towards conditioning the males to follow their fathers down the coal mines and the women, their mothers into hosiery & textile factories. These people are not stupid, you are the idiot for branding them as such. With the closure of the mines and factories, they feel isolated, let down, abandoned and angry. Maybe they correctly or incorrectly blame the EU for that, but conceited fools such as yourself are too stupid to appreciate this.

 

[oldgroaner]

The referendum was quite simply a case of public distress hijacked by a Mafia with an agenda far removed from their promises.
What a wonderful world it will be when "the Goodness Flows! " sadly it was all lies, wasn't it?

Perhaps it is time to recall what promises the leave campaign actually made, this from "open Britain"

https://www.open-britain.co.uk/leave_campaigners_try_to_drop_their_false_promises

Here's just a sample
"
3. Trade with the EU will not be harmed. “Our trade will almost certainly continue with the EU on similar to current circumstances…The reality is that the hard-headed, pragmatic businessmen on the continent will do everything to ensure that trade with Britain continues uninterrupted.” David Davis, speech, 26 May 2016

“The EU’s supporters say ‘we must have access to the Single Market’. Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave”.Vote Leave, What Happens When We Vote Leave?

“there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market”, Boris Johnson, The Telegraph, 26 June 2016

"It should be win-win for us and it will be if we vote to leave and we can maintain free trade, stop sending money and also have control of our borders", Michael Gove, BBC, 8 May 2016

“The idea that our trade will suffer…is silly”,Vote Leave, What Happens When We Vote Leave


We were effectively promised the same membership benefits of the EU without the cost of membership for a start, were we not?

Anything less is unacceptable according to the leave campaigners.

 

[oldgroaner]

I don’t know what relevance the card trick has. Could you explain which bit I am supposed to be impressed by?

From your account, the question posed was, “which people should we retain in the U.K.?” (I’ve assumed that you made a Typo). The implication being mass deportation of all EU nationals. This presupposes that prior to the Brexit vote, people were told that EU workers in the fields of medicine, hospitality & catering, agriculture and social care would be deported. This is untrue and you know it to be so. So why are you promoting an agenda which you know to be based on a lie? It was made very clear that the U.K. would like more control over immigration so that the right skills and talent could be attracted and retained. In effect, that was precisely what the couple were doing, identifying people with skills which the U.K. would very much like to attract and retain.

Statistically, the couple from Mansfield are likely to be poorly educated, but not stupid as you smugly imply. In that area, schooling would have been orientated towards conditioning the males to follow their fathers down the coal mines and the women, their mothers into hosiery & textile factories. These people are not stupid, you are the idiot for branding them as such. With the closure of the mines and factories, they feel isolated, let down, abandoned and angry. Maybe they correctly or incorrectly blame the EU for that, but conceited fools such as yourself are too stupid to appreciate this.

You were doing really well until that last sentence.........
Assuming of course that you ignore the fact that there are existing laws in force concerning control of EU immigrants re work, benefits and residence, and leaving the EU does nothing about the immigrants from elsewhere we have in theory complete control of we don't exercise.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent, and example of a company accepting reality despite having to lose face
"
KFC reverts to old chicken supplier after massive shortage led to forced store closures
Fast-food chain says it is reverting to Bidvest Logistics after having switched to DHL and its partner QSL for around 350 restaurants.

There's a moral in there somewhere!

Time the Government took this as an example of how to deal with Brexit.
Accept the loss of face and go back to the EU as the new purveyors of promises like Moggy and co fail to deliver

 

[tillson]

Assuming of course that you ignore the fact that there are existing laws in force concerning control of EU immigrants re work, benefits and residence, and leaving the EU does nothing about the immigrants from elsewhere we have in theory complete control of we don't exercise.

That maybe so, but my post was aimed at Bicycle Man’s loaded deck of cards stunt. Did the pack contain a card showing an Iraqi “Manchild” refugee terrorist who’s passage into the U.K. was eased by EU policies?

 

[oldgroaner]

That maybe so, but my post was aimed at Bicycle Man’s loaded deck of cards stunt. Did the pack contain a card showing an Iraqi “Manchild” refugee terrorist who’s passage into the U.K. was eased by EU policies?

Care to explain which EU policy concerns Iraqi citizens? you've got me there!
Surely as a Non EU citizen he was one of the ones we do have complete control of!
The question then becomes why didn't we do so?

 

[anotherkiwi]

That maybe so, but my post was aimed at Bicycle Man’s loaded deck of cards stunt. Did the pack contain a card showing an Iraqi “Manchild” refugee terrorist who’s passage into the U.K. was eased by EU policies?

Maybe he has some bones to pick? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Iraq

 

[tillson]

Care to explain which EU policy concerns Iraqi citizens? you've got me there!
Surely as a Non EU citizen he was one of the ones we do have complete control of!
The question then becomes why didn't we do so?

Allowed free passage across the EU thanks to border policies and free movement. EU country head, Merkel allowing thousands of unknowns from identified terrorist hot spots into the EU and then onwards, Article 8 Human Rights Act (right to family life) which we can’t adjust to prevent abuse of the system, allowing unknowns pretending to be joining families into the U.K. from the EU.

I will agree that our ability to patrol and control our borders is woefully inadequate, and that is our own fault, but the aspects of EU membership which I have listed make the job even harder.

 

[tillson]

Maybe he has some bones to pick? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Iraq

WTF?

 

[oldgroaner]

A video from the Parlimentary EU committee is instructive
Note it won't embed.
Pascal Lamy says Brexit is like "Extracting an Egg from an Omelette"
And any trade deal will take at least five years!

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/8b00ce90-e83d-4f76-8c87-b0d2d2174af7

 

[oldgroaner]

Allowed free passage across the EU thanks to border policies and free movement. EU country head, Merkel allowing thousands of unknowns from identified terrorist hot spots into the EU and then onwards, Article 8 Human Rights Act (right to family life) which we can’t adjust to prevent abuse of the system, allowing unknowns pretending to be joining families into the U.K. from the EU.

I will agree that our ability to patrol and control our borders is woefully inadequate, and that is our own fault, but the aspects of EU membership which I have listed make the job even harder.

Human rights act isn't simply an EU thing is it?

 

[oldgroaner]

That maybe so, but my post was aimed at Bicycle Man’s loaded deck of cards stunt. Did the pack contain a card showing an Iraqi “Manchild” refugee terrorist who’s passage into the U.K. was eased by EU policies?

By the way I loved the "Rocket Man " put down by Trump allusion with your put down "Bicycle Man"

Classic tillson

 

[anotherkiwi]

WTF?

Why would an "Iraqi “Manchild” refugee terrorist" want to come to the UK? Which country has been stiring up trouble in Iraq for generations (a century at least)?

So now we have scores of highly trained killers parked in Calais just waiting on an occasion to invade England and wreak havoc and bloodshed... Ho hum...

In the meantime you have been hosting hate spewing mullahs who walk freely in your streets untroubled. The same ones influencing young French born kids to go and fight the holy war in the Middle East.

 

[oyster]

From the Independent, and example of a company accepting reality despite having to lose face
"
KFC reverts to old chicken supplier after massive shortage led to forced store closures
Fast-food chain says it is reverting to Bidvest Logistics after having switched to DHL and its partner QSL for around 350 restaurants.

There's a moral in there somewhere!

Time the Government took this as an example of how to deal with Brexit.
Accept the loss of face and go back to the EU as the new purveyors of promises like Moggy and co fail to deliver

Difficult to use the word "moral" in a post about our government.

 

[oldtom]

History lessons are generally not so influential as this Daily drip feed of nonsense is.

The latter is deliberate brainwashing and is only one plank of a whole spectrum of ways and means, some blatant, some less obvious and some subliminal, but all designed to instill a perverse version of truth and reality into the minds of unsuspecting recipients - most recently, we saw the results in those successfully treated by this programme - we know them as 'Brexidiots'!

Tom

 

[Wicky]

I don’t know what relevance the card trick has. Could you explain which bit I am supposed to be impressed by?

From your account, the question posed was, “which people should we retain in the U.K.?” (I’ve assumed that you made a Typo). The implication being mass deportation of all EU nationals. This presupposes that prior to the Brexit vote, people were told that EU workers in the fields of medicine, hospitality & catering, agriculture and social care would be deported. This is untrue and you know it to be so. So why are you promoting an agenda which you know to be based on a lie? It was made very clear that the U.K. would like more control over immigration so that the right skills and talent could be attracted and retained. In effect, that was precisely what the couple were doing, identifying people with skills which the U.K. would very much like to attract and retain.

Statistically, the couple from Mansfield are likely to be poorly educated, but not stupid as you smugly imply. In that area, schooling would have been orientated towards conditioning the males to follow their fathers down the coal mines and the women, their mothers into hosiery & textile factories. These people are not stupid, you are the idiot for branding them as such. With the closure of the mines and factories, they feel isolated, let down, abandoned and angry. Maybe they correctly or incorrectly blame the EU for that, but conceited fools such as yourself are too stupid to appreciate this.

As I've previously tried to get across, the NHS has not just a problem with a shortage of skilled doctors, nurses technicians , a lot of domestic staff to fullfill domestic unqualified roles inc cleaning, cooking, tea making dishing out meals & drinks, Health Care assistants etc. these roles are bulked out by Europeans willing to work unearthly hours at minimum wage, and many of the ones I talked to are degree educated - they work hard and uncomplaining (at least within earshot ;-).

These and similar 'unskilled' workers (farmworkers etc) are now not inclined to come and do these unskilled jobs like the skilled ones due to the rejection they feel from Brexit and those that are prejudiced against them.

Tilson Who do you suggest fills in for the absence of these workers?

 

[flecc]

EU country head, Merkel allowing thousands of unknowns from identified terrorist hot spots into the EU and then onwards

No she didn't. The EU boundary countries let them in, she merely stuck to the letter of the law as Germans are inclined to do, since she had no legal right to stop them crossing her internal border.

Once in, as a humane person she treated them decently as fellow human beings. I'm confident that will pay off as well as it did with the over three million Turks Germany brought in post war who have integrated well into German society.

Their remaining Arian obsessed fascists don't like it but that pleases me, they deserve a miserable and unhappy life as a reward for the miserable and unhappy life they wish upon others.
.

 

[oldtom]

I will agree that our ability to patrol and control our borders is woefully inadequate, and that is our own fault

That bit is correct and renders the rest irrelevant - all EU states are free to exercise control over who enters and may terminate the right under which entry was permitted where circumstances clearly indicate that individuals are neither tourists nor workers, or demonstrably seeking employment.

Tom