Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

those estimates will evolve with time. We are at the beginning of the technological age where a lot of land is still used to provide food and energy. In the future, most of those two categories will use a lot less land - eg nuclear fusion leads to undersea gardens etc,

 

[Zlatan]

those estimates will evolve with time. We are at the beginning of the technological age where a lot of land is still used to provide food and energy. In the future, most of those two categories will use a lot less land - eg nuclear fusion leads to undersea gardens etc,

If we get our act together...and entire planet understands exactly what situation is...
China, India, and much of Asia are currently undergoing massive revolutions...dwarfing our own industrial one. Is somebody going to say hang on a minute, all you people cant have cars..no they are not. In next ten years car usage will explode on world stage..All our talk and environment protection projects will be totally and utterly insignificant. Yet, here we are calling each other names about being in or out of some stupid trading organisation..Nero fiddled..
I visited Vietnam 20 years ago...absolutely everybody travelled by pushbike...droves and droves of the things. All those people now ride little motor bikes...droves and droves...Another 10 years and they,ll all be in cars.( they are building infrastructure now) that scenario will be repeated in loads of countries.. most of whom have no emission laws. Just look at China and its estimated growth. Global warming is just getting started...unless we do do something...but we are doing less...on a world .
Fortunately sea levels have not risen to extent expected 10 years ago, but we now know sea levels correlate with CO2 levels. We,ve had a respite, that's all. Its quite feasible much of London is underwater before Brexit is sorted..

 

[Kudoscycles]

I don’t know what relevance the card trick has. Could you explain which bit I am supposed to be impressed by?

From your account, the question posed was, “which people should we retain in the U.K.?” (I’ve assumed that you made a Typo). The implication being mass deportation of all EU nationals. This presupposes that prior to the Brexit vote, people were told that EU workers in the fields of medicine, hospitality & catering, agriculture and social care would be deported. This is untrue and you know it to be so. So why are you promoting an agenda which you know to be based on a lie? It was made very clear that the U.K. would like more control over immigration so that the right skills and talent could be attracted and retained. In effect, that was precisely what the couple were doing, identifying people with skills which the U.K. would very much like to attract and retain.

Statistically, the couple from Mansfield are likely to be poorly educated, but not stupid as you smugly imply. In that area, schooling would have been orientated towards conditioning the males to follow their fathers down the coal mines and the women, their mothers into hosiery & textile factories. These people are not stupid, you are the idiot for branding them as such. With the closure of the mines and factories, they feel isolated, let down, abandoned and angry. Maybe they correctly or incorrectly blame the EU for that, but conceited fools such as yourself are too stupid to appreciate this.

They were stupid because they didn’t and still don’t understand the implications of their vote. EU migrants are going home in droves,unfortunately they are just the worker profile that the lady said we should be keeping.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

I visited Vietnam 20 years ago...absolutely everybody travelled by pushbike...droves and droves of the things. All those people now ride little motor bikes...droves and droves...Another 10 years and they,ll all be in cars.( they are building infrastructure now) that scenario will be repeated in loads of countries.. most of whom have no emission laws. Just look at China and its estimated growth. Global warming is just getting started...unless we do do something...but we are doing less...on a world .

zlatan, you worry too much - before they drive billions more cars, they need to build billions more kms of roads.
The current global growth rate is 3.1%, levelling I guess around 1%-2% in a 50-100 year time, growth of cars will be that same order of magnitude. By then, cars may fly. The environment is manageable.

 

[Kudoscycles]

it is relevant because brexiters buy into the belief that new FTAs with the 50 odds CW countries and the USA where a large part of future growth will come from will easily replace any loss of trade with the EU27 and more potential.
I wonder if the 'heat map' of those areas where the belief in the greatness of the Empire coincides with that of brexit votes.

We thought that the 60 plus countries that already have trade deals with the EU would automatically transfer those deals to the U.K.
But the world is progressing,these countries realise that when we quit the EU we will be desperate to do replacement deals,so we will be vulnerable to blackmail in such deals. Also we don’t have the trade attractiveness,being only 50 million when compared to the 500 million in the EU.
KudosDave

 

[oyster]

We thought that the 60 plus countries that already have trade deals with the EU would automatically transfer those deals to the U.K.

Some may have though that. I can't see any possible reason for doing so - it would simply have been an unjustified assumption.

 

[Woosh]

We thought that the 60 plus countries that already have trade deals with the EU would automatically transfer those deals to the U.K.
But the world is progressing,these countries realise that when we quit the EU we will be desperate to do replacement deals,so we will be vulnerable to blackmail in such deals. Also we don’t have the trade attractiveness,being only 50 million when compared to the 500 million in the EU.
KudosDave

those who are part of the 750 current FTAs with the EU don't have to do anything if JRM and his associates get their no deal brexit. The UK will be open for business, free to all those who want to import stuff.
The problem will be ours, we won't be able to sell them much in return.
I deplore people who believe in JRM's economics.

 

[Kudoscycles]

No my post was completely relevant. The workers to which you refer come here because we are a generous and welcoming nation able to offer a far better standard of living to that which they have in their home country. If it was anything less, they wouldn’t come here.

That was the situation prior to the Brexit vote but we made it clear that many in the U.K. did not want EE workers and the fall in the value of the pound v euro has swung the balance such that they are equally well off socially and financially back home.
Also some of these EE countries are booming,I was in Gdansk recently,the quantity and quality of house building is obvious.
As you say’ if it was anything less,they wouldn’t come here’.....which is why they came in the first place, but it is now less so they are leaving.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

those who are part of the 750 current FTAs with the EU don't have to do anything if JRM and his associates get their no deal brexit. The UK will be open for business, free to all those who want to import stuff.
The problem will be ours, we won't be able to sell them much in return.
I deplore people who believe in JRM's economics.

I agree with your conclusion except under a no Brexit deal we would have to pay WTO tariffs,that would be hugely damaging especially for food,Ireland would be particularly badly hurt.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

zlatan, you worry too much - before they drive billions more cars, they need to build billions more kms of roads.
The current global growth rate is 3.1%, levelling I guess around 1%-2% in a 50-100 year time, growth of cars will be that same order of magnitude. By then, cars may fly. The environment is manageable.

The expanding middle class in China is causing massive traffic jams,just too many cars.....returning from CNY from the west to the east the country was gridlocked,even outside of the cities.
I have noticed that train and air travel is packed and now more expensive than travelling around Europe.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

I agree with your conclusion except under a no Brexit deal we would have to pay WTO tariffs,that would be hugely damaging especially for food,Ireland would be particularly badly hurt.
KudosDave

the hard brexiters' idea is we don't charge tariff, we don't have quotas. We won't have a border with the ROI and we don't check lorries at Calais. Their argument is that will bring the price of clothing, shoes, orange, coffee, sugar, meats, wines and cars down for the poor.
That idea, if carried out, will wipe out our manufacturing, farming, fishing etc then how are we going to pay for the imports? The Pound will crash and those who support JRM will find out soon that he is an idiot.

 

[Kudoscycles]

It’s a bit hypocritical the EU objections to Trump putting 25% tariff on EU and U.K. steel into the US.....in October 2016 the EU put 73.7 % tariff on all hot rolled Chinese Steel....Tata steel welcomed this as the saviour of Port Talbot steel works.
As I have previously mentioned Theresa May intends to continue these tariffs under TRA (Trade Remedies Authority) ,the UK’s version of ADT.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

the hard brexiters' idea is we don't charge tariff, we don't have quotas. We won't have a border with the ROI and we don't check lorries at Calais. Their argument is that will bring the price of clothing, shoes, orange, coffee, sugar, meats, wines and cars down for the poor.
That idea, if carried out, will wipe out our manufacturing, farming, fishing etc then how are we going to pay for the imports? The Pound will crash and those who support JRM will find out soon that he is an idiot.

I think we are legally obliged to charge WTO tariffs unless we have a trade deal with the supplying country.....not sure on that ?
The rest of your post is exactly what the EU are frightened of,to end up with a country on its doorstep that will lower standards and smuggle loads of cheap goods into the EU,you can’t blame them we have history of not collecting duty.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

I think we are legally obliged to charge WTO tariffs unless we have a trade deal with the supplying country.....not sure on that ?

WTO does not oblige you to collect duty. It only concerns itself with trade disputes. If you waive tariff, nobody is going to complain to the WTO.
If you run Tate & Lyle or Weatherspoons, wouldn't you want the UK to waive import duty on wines and sugars? JRM and his band of bucaneers like to cite the success of Singapore but as I pointed out, Singapore has a very large reservoir of cheap labour in Malaysia's Johor Bahru, just over the bridge.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Guardian
"
Two out of three people believe that 
EU is trying to bully UK over Brexit"

Of course they do! the propaganda is working as intended.

 

[Woosh]

of course it does. So is international diplomacy.

 

[Zlatan]

It’s a bit hypocritical the EU objections to Trump putting 25% tariff on EU and U.K. steel into the US.....in October 2016 the EU put 73.7 % tariff on all hot rolled Chinese Steel....Tata steel welcomed this as the saviour of Port Talbot steel works.
As I have previously mentioned Theresa May intends to continue these tariffs under TRA (Trade Remedies Authority) ,the UK’s version of ADT.
KudosDave

EU puts 10% on American cars...in return USA puts 2.5% on EU ones...Who:s the bad guy ?

 

[Woosh]

EU puts 10% on American cars...in return USA puts 2.5% on EU ones...Who:s the bad guy ?

there is no bad guy in this sort of agreements. They help to strike the right balance between protecting jobs and reaping the benefit of free trade.
It's the idea of free for all trades that is idiotic because it only benefits the traders to the detriment of the workers.

 

[oldgroaner]

WTO does not oblige you to collect duty. It only concerns itself with trade disputes. If you waive tariff, nobody is going to complain to the WTO.
If you run Tate & Lyle or Weatherspoons, wouldn't you want the UK to waive import duty on wines and sugars? JRM and his band of bucaneers like to cite the success of Singapore but as I pointed out, Singapore has a very large reservoir of cheap labour in Malaysia's Johor Bahru, just over the bridge.

Just as we had one on the mainland till we effectively "Burnt our Bridge"

 

[Woosh]

Just as we had one on the mainland till we effectively "Burnt our Bridge"

that's one way of putting it. For decades, our civil service knows the value of EU workers to our economy and actively recruit EU workers and students, even to the point of not asking them to leave when the person has a long spell of unemployment. Instead of making the case for more EU immigration and possibly using it to reduce non-EU immigration, the tories went for populism, easy picking isn't it.