Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

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The latest 718 Boxster is a 4 cylinder turbo,the 918 older model was a 6 cylinder,many prefer the manual drive old model to the TPK new model,the old model is holding its price,the new model is falling.
KudosDave
Yep , there are a lot of worried Porsche people. Getting rid of the flat 6 boxer engine I think will prove problematic. The engine in the 986/7/1 was fundamental to its character. It sounded fantastic, pulls low but still revs to 7k plus.. The 4 cylinder ( still boxer I believe, 2 litre ,turbo , circa 350 bhp,) was deemed necessary for emission regulations.( at price of Boxster) I think Porsche would have overcome the problems on the 6 cylinder...they are masters at development over design.( look how the 911 overcame design flaws)
But the 718 is still a fantastic car but Porsche fans dont see anything other than flat 6 as a Porsche..time will tell.
I,d still have any but there is something almost spiritual from a howling flat 6 !!! Especially in Boxster...its nearer to you than in 911.
Wish I hadn't sold mine. Think I,ll get another.( RS60 next time ?? I,ll tolerate poor hood)
 
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oldgroaner

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I would have thought the opposite is right.
When people get richer, they will want to improve the environment and welfare.
Their view moves to the left.
That is an interesting idea, sadly it fails to reflect that Fact that Conservatism is the ultimate Expression of Humanities purest emotion.

GREED
 
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flecc

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the U.S. government has committed more than $5 billion in bilateral economic and non-lethal security assistance to the Palestinians , who are among the world's largest per capita recipients of international foreign aid."
Because they are being progressively being denied the chance to adequately support themselves, they are made increasingly dependent on outside support. Their lands are being continuously shrunk to achieve that, a deliberate Israeli strategy which includes oppression and military control beyond reason.

Once they've lost their identifiable land, their following generations will lose their identity, the end game of the ethnic cleansing.
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Wicky

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Because they are being progressively being denied the chance to adequately support themselves, they are made increasingly dependent on outside support. Their lands are being continuously shrunk to achieve that, a deliberate Israeli strategy which includes oppression and military control beyond reason.

Once they've lost their identifiable land, their following generations will lose their identity, the end game of the ethnic cleansing.
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Once again, if the Palestinian population within Palestine is continually increasing then your claimed Israeli & western policy of "Ethnic Cleansing" is going backwards - tunnels seem to operate one way bringing in Mercs, weapons & exclusive foods to order but despite the potential to leave there is no mass exodus for some reason (Hamas regulate the tunnels holding their own folk hostage?)

"military control beyond reason."

What reasonable response do you suggest is made when Hamas launches rocket and mortar plus knife and vehicle attacks against Israelis.

If Hamas had the firepower that Israel possesses what do think would happen to Israel, bearing in mind one of the stated goals of Hamas is the destruction of Israel: 'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' ?
 

Kudoscycles

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The taxation bill going through parliament next week will state that all goods coming from the EU post Brexit will have to pay vat and duty on delivery...this is obvious to me,everything that comes in from China has to pay vat and duty on delivery so when we leave why should goods from Germany be treated any different.
This will cause massive cash flow problems for thousands of U.K. companies,they will get the vat back,but after a few months,the duty is lost and will inevitably cause price rises. In the end it is dialled into the cash flow of the business but initially it will cause big problems.
KudosDave
 
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Zlatan

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That is an interesting idea, sadly it fails to reflect that Fact that Conservatism is the ultimate Expression of Humanities purest emotion.

GREED
Agreed, but you still haven't given an example of a "successful" socialist society. Vietnam has average monthly wage of under 50 us dollars. ( and many people surviving on under a dollar a day)
China and Vietnam are single party democracies, ie dictatorships.

Nearly all of us live in.paradise by comparison. My own example, in next month I,m having a tooth extracted, a cardio version and possibly eye cataract op...all on NHS. We nearly all live like kings at side of places extreme left quote.
Many seem incapable of appreciating what our system gives. Yes, it has its faults and demonstrates massive unfairness. Seems to me many on here simply look for every negative they can and in doing so make themselves miserable and damage others.
For goodness sake OG appreciate what the Tories have given you at side of what your quoted " socialist" utopia would have.
Just tell me one country where your situation would be significantly better than that you currently enjoy ? There isn't one.
China would have shot many on here.
Yourself and Tom seem so bitter. I dont understand it at all.
Both of you have had health care, education, good earnings, homes, good food,jobs and families throughout your lives. If you haven't it isn't necessarily the governments fault.
Yes, it could obviously be better but it could certainly be a damned site worse.( and might be under Brexit but certainly would under Corbyn)

Perhaps we should be looking for solutions and ways forward rather than continually reporting grievences.
 
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Danidl

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Agreed, but you still haven't given an example if a "successful" socialist society. Woosh quoting China and Vietnam is actually quite ridiculous. China for reasons mentioned , Vietnam has average monthly wage of under 50 us dollars. ( and many people surviving on under a dollar a day)

Nearly all if us live in.paradise by comparison. My own example, in next month I,m having a tooth extracted, a cardio version and possibly eye cataract op...all on NHS. We nearly all live like kings at side of places extreme left quote.
Many seem incapable of appreciating what our system gives. Yes, it has its faults and demonstrates massive unfairness. Seems to me many on here simply look for every negative they can and in doing so make themselves miserable and damage others.
For goodness sake OG appreciate what the Tories have given you at side of what your quoted " socialist" utopia would have.
Just tell me one country where your situation would be significantly better than that you currently enjoy ? There isn't one.
China would have shot many on here.
I dont want to get into the political party debate, as to whether a left wing or right leaning government is better for the uk, but I do want to agree with the main point of this posting that western europe is the best place , with the best prospects for a safe and healthy life on the planet, within or without of brexit.
People generally recognise that that they have less chance of arbitary arrest, some chance of getting justice in courts, better prospects of getting some health care, and a likely hood of actually getting a job....irrespective of personal circumstances , than in other regions of the world.
What the debate could be about is whether the chances of sustaining and enhancing these values are improved within or without of Brexit. .
 

Woosh

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Woosh quoting China and Vietnam is actually quite ridiculous. China for reasons mentioned , Vietnam has average monthly wage of under 50 us dollars. ( and many people surviving on under a dollar a day)
I think you will be surprised when you visit Vietnam. The last time I was in Vietnam was in 2009. Even then, it was no longer a third world country, compared to a lot of African countries. Wages were rising fast in China as well as in Vietnam. The average salary of factory workers are now more than $400 a month. Roads are now choked by cars, not bicycles. They both have a national health system and the waiting time at A&E is much less than our 4 hours.
 
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Woosh

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I,ve removed some of previous post.
there is no need, I hope you'll be pleasantly surprised. I was pestered a bit by insistent hawkers and the general traffic in Hanoi and HCM city. Other than that, it was very good.
 
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flecc

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Once again, if the Palestinian population within Palestine is continually increasing then your claimed Israeli & western policy of "Ethnic Cleansing" is going backwards - tunnels seem to operate one way bringing in Mercs, weapons & exclusive foods to order but despite the potential to leave there is no mass exodus for some reason (Hamas regulate the tunnels holding their own folk hostage?)

"military control beyond reason."

What reasonable response do you suggest is made when Hamas launches rocket and mortar plus knife and vehicle attacks against Israelis.

If Hamas had the firepower that Israel possesses what do think would happen to Israel, bearing in mind one of the stated goals of Hamas is the destruction of Israel: 'Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.' ?
You are completely missing the point I made, that ethnic cleansing can be by removal of identity and that is the method the Israelis are using. I'm not denying a population increase, I am stressing the loss of identity. Hamas are using two methods at least to increase the population in an effort to oppose the Israeli policy, but the tiny size of the Gaza Strip makes that ultimately futile, like all other Hamas actions.

There are two things that enable a people to retain an identity. One is having a religion which is unique only to them, and the Jewish people have had that over millennia. The one that is much more common is having a land that is home to a people, and that is the only one the Palestinian people have.

That identity is what the Israelis are destroying. One method they are using is the theft of Palestinian land, mainly by the continuing creation of illegal settlements which they then defend with occupying troops. A second method is by theft at the border, both by the barrier wall intruding deep into Palestinian land and by disobeying th UN resolution to move back to the pre 1967 borders.

Gradually taking over increasing areas of Jerusalem and declaring it be the capital of Israel are further moves, as is the deliberate avoidance of the name Palestine. The Israelis commonly use the terms West Bank and Gaza Strip, and their own internal Palestinian population they don't refer to as such, instead terming them their Arab population.

The eventual loss of the name of Palestine and identifiable Palestinian land means the inevitable loss of a Palestinian identity. Already that has happened to the second to fourth generations of one time Palestinians in other countries like Jordan, it being reported that they no longer identify as Palestinian. Hardly surprising when they've never seen that land and it is so rarely referred to as Palestine.

That is the effective form that the Israeli ethnic cleansing of Palestinians has taken, the elimination of that identity. Of course I had already clearly explained that in a prior post, but you chose to ignore that.

Regarding your remaining points, the mention of military control beyond reason obviously refers to the troops occupying the West Bank as I'm sure you already knew. There is no excuse for that occupation and it is in defiance of UN resolutions and therefore illegal.

And the Hamas actions are a war against an aggressor who stole their land. I don't defend what they are doing and know it is entirely pointless anyway, but I do understand why they are doing it.
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oldgroaner

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Agreed, but you still haven't given an example of a "successful" socialist society. Vietnam has average monthly wage of under 50 us dollars. ( and many people surviving on under a dollar a day)
China and Vietnam are single party democracies, ie dictatorships.

Nearly all of us live in.paradise by comparison. My own example, in next month I,m having a tooth extracted, a cardio version and possibly eye cataract op...all on NHS. We nearly all live like kings at side of places extreme left quote.
Many seem incapable of appreciating what our system gives. Yes, it has its faults and demonstrates massive unfairness. Seems to me many on here simply look for every negative they can and in doing so make themselves miserable and damage others.
For goodness sake OG appreciate what the Tories have given you at side of what your quoted " socialist" utopia would have.
Just tell me one country where your situation would be significantly better than that you currently enjoy ? There isn't one.
China would have shot many on here.
Yourself and Tom seem so bitter. I dont understand it at all.
Both of you have had health care, education, good earnings, homes, good food,jobs and families throughout your lives. If you haven't it isn't necessarily the governments fault.
Yes, it could obviously be better but it could certainly be a damned site worse.( and might be under Brexit but certainly would under Corbyn)

Perhaps we should be looking for solutions and ways forward rather than continually reporting grievences.
UK 1945

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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flecc

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in next month I,m having a tooth extracted, a cardio version and possibly eye cataract op...all on NHS.
For your own sake Zlatan, please consider carefully the options if the cataract operation is necessary. This is one area where the NHS has long been failing, their methods many years behind the times.

Basically for cost and convenience reasons they will only plan for one eye at a time, and that eye is given a standard focus lens. In other words middling, not particularly good at long distance and hopeless for reading. The lenses are fixed focus of course, unlike the variable focus original that we are born with.

When eventually you need the other eye treated, the same happens and you are stuck with reading glasses since all your closer vision is very limited. If you are very unlucky, like my brother, their cataract treatments will leave you needing glasses for both close and distant vision!

Being aware of this I chose to go private when my cataracts were advancing, meaning my treatment for both eyes could be planned at one time. That enabled me to have a system called Monovision.

That enabled the first treatment of the worst cataract to have a lens biased the way that eye was best, in my case it was the left eye for excellent long vision. Then later when the right eye was treated, the lens was chosen for a shorter vision, still just able to pass the easy UK number plate test but biased for very much shorter range.

The outcome is that I dont need glasses at all and my all round eyesight is actually better than when I was young. The long distance vision is excellent and I can not only read normally but even cope with small print. When tested after both eyes were dealt with I was handed a five section chart of ever smaller print paragraphs and asked to read from the lowest one to see how far up I could go. I didn't bother, just jumped straight to the top paragraph of the tiniest print and read it out at full arms length away.

In any investigation you may discover that replacement variable lenses have been created now. However I was strongly advised to avoid them since the failure rate is high and failure means a repeated operation. A cataract operation has a roughly 1 in 1000 chance of blindness occurring in the eye, and the odds on that happening are greatly shortened for a repeated operation. That's why there are very few doing them.

My operation cost in 2013 and 2014 totalled near to £5000, well worth it for the outcome.

The first eye cost £2200, but because the planning was for two eyes, there was a discount for bulk on the second eye at £1950. There was a charge of £90 for the precise scanning of both eyes to exactly determine their natural focus, plus two long consultations with the specialist consultant at £200 each. These were mainly to determine my exact requirements at each stage.
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Danidl

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there is no need, I hope you'll be pleasantly surprised. I was pestered a bit by insistent hawkers and the general traffic in Hanoi and HCM city. Other than that, it was very good.
I was in hcm city in 2012, and the ratio of cars to bikes was very low... The bike population simply mind boggling. I cannot accept that the health service for the ordinary viet was other than chaotic.. on different days I was adjacent to two of the major maternity hospitals with , clinics and the bustle and milling about of mothers with babes in arms, was like a combination of cup finals at Wembley, added to christmas sales . Unlike anything experienced in the western world.
 
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flecc

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I was adjacent to two of the major maternity hospitals with , clinics and the bustle and milling about of mothers with babes in arms, was like a combination of cup finals at Wembley, added to christmas sales . Unlike anything experienced in the western world.
I wonder how much of that was cultural though? The peoples of many far away countries seem uniquely able to create physically chaotic situations.

In sharp contrast, the British in similar situations just form a queue.
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Danidl

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I wonder how much of that was cultural though? The peoples of many far away countries seem uniquely able to create physically chaotic situations.

In sharp contrast, the British in similar situations just form a queue.
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To be of any meaningfull length, the volume of people I am describing would have to have been in a queue 100 to 200 wide... . Think crowds in vatican square , think crowds rotating around the mosque in Mecca on haj , and I was told it was a daily occurrence. And these were with sick babies, I dont think they were going in for the flu jab.
 
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Woosh

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To be of any meaningfull length, the volume of people I am describing would have to have been in a queue 100 to 200 wide... . Think crowds in vatican square , think crowds rotating around the mosque in Mecca on haj , and I was told it was a daily occurrence. And these were with sick babies, I dont think they were going in for the flu jab.
one indication is the number of doctors per 1000 inhabitants.
UN stats in 2008 shows UK 2.8 doctors per 1000 inhabitants, Vietnam 1.26 (that number was 0.24 in 1980), China 1.94.
That shows the staggering improvement in public health provision.
Of course most wealthy Vietnamese have access to private healthcare.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.MED.PHYS.ZS

Streets in Hanoi and HCM are full of shops providing cosmetic dentistry works.
 
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flecc

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To be of any meaningfull length, the volume of people I am describing would have to have been in a queue 100 to 200 wide... .
Understood. I also understand that they are still, so long after, suffering the ill effects of the agent orange used in the Vietnam war

Queue wise we are getting there though, our A & E queues now spilling out of waiting rooms, along corridors and outside into queues of ambulances.
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