Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

A more moderate, centralist party could have run away in last election, just as Makron did in France, a country which most accurately reflects our own political views.

I can't agree since the long term failure of the Liberals in their various guises show the British won't vote that way. Our electorate seem to think they are on a seesaw, unable to achieve a balance in the middle.

They need to learn the hard way, let Jeremy Corbyn be voted in and see what happens.
.

 

[Zlatan]

"Politicians who think they know about the situation and feel they have a solution have not started to even grasp the difficulty of the problem"

Cant remember who said it or about what but the premise certainly applies to the Israel / Palestine issue.

Since the Exodus of 1947 there simply can not be an amicable solution. The Chris Tarrant railway programme from Israel / Palestine / Jerusalem gave an insight to the problem..

 

[flecc]

they are legitimised by UN resolution 181.

If you call that corrupt US inducement by their Jewish population legitimisation. I don't.

The UN was doomed from the moment the USA bullied their way into getting it based in the USA, not in Switzerland where the great majority wanted it.
.

 

[Zlatan]

I can't agree since the long term failure of the Liberals in their various guises show the British won't vote that way. Our electorate seem to think they are on a seesaw, unable to achieve a balance in the middle.

They need to learn the hard way, let Jeremy Corbyn be voted in and see what happens.
.

We voted that way for Blair..Perhaps not a liberal in same sense as Makron but certainly more central than any government before or since. Think we agree we are still paying the price for Blair's behaviour. Not having a centralist option to vote for now is one of them.
Not sure we can use history to predict our voting trends anymore.. Brexit, Trump and Makron demonstrate this.
I actually think May tries to be light blue but her party keeps her " true blue".( and probably her G4 husband has some influence)

 

[Zlatan]

they are legitimised by UN resolution 181.

Surely that is simply legitimising the invasion of Palestine in 1947. Are you suggesting if enough countries agree a Countries' sovereignty can be changed and legitimised by the UN ? With our world wide popularity perhaps our Queenie should watch out.

 

[flecc]

they are legitimised by UN resolution 181.

Which also ruled that Jerusalem be governed internationally by a Corpus separatum, certainly not by Israel. They've ignored that in the same way they've ignored UN resolutions on withdrawing to the previous borders.

I say a government can't just pick and choose on UN resolutions, and Israel's criminal actions remove any legitimacy for that country to exist.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Which also ruled that Jerusalem be governed internationally by a Corpus separatum, certainly not by Israel. They've ignored that in the same way they've ignored UN resolutions on withdrawing to the previous borders.

I say a government can't just pick and choose on UN resolutions, and Israel's criminal actions remove any legitimacy for that country to exist.
.

But that's exactly why the problem is impossible to solve. Israel does now exist and its inhabitants are deserving of UN protection...as are Palestinians.
Can you imagine the situation had Israel been established elsewhere. ( Australia? China? Vietnam . My personal view is Israel should have been a state within USA. ( Geographically and politically. ) Would have made far more sense than in Palestine.

 

[flecc]

But that's exactly why the problem is impossible to solve. Israel does now exist and its inhabitants are deserving of UN protection...as are Palestinians.

But it should be subject to obeying UN resolutions. No compliance, no protection.

My personal view is Israel should have been a state within USA. ( Geographically and politically. ) Would have made far more sense than in Palestine.

Totally agree and I've also long said the same. There's even a theological argument for it. The unhappy experiences of Hebrews in Canann under the Romans and those in modern day Israel show that it could not possibly have been the promised land intended by their God.

Conversely the powerful support of Zionism by the US governments and the religious majority in the USA surely qualifies that land as meeting the requirements for that title, if it ever existed. Economically it really can be a land of metaphorical milk and honey.
.

 

[Woosh]

My personal view is Israel should have been a state within USA.

The USA identifies already itself with Israel.

 

[Woosh]

But it should be subject to obeying UN resolutions. No compliance, no protection.

The boot is now on the other foot.
We now protect Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Syria against Israel.
In the long run, it will reach an equilibrium.

 

[flecc]

In the long run, it will reach an equilibrium.

When Palestine has been destroyed and the remaining Palestinian people of that identity die out. As I posted, the Israeli policy of ethnic cleansing approved by the West.
.

 

[flecc]

We now protect Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, Syria against Israel.

But studiously avoid protecting the survival of Palestine and the Palestinian people.
.

 

[Woosh]

When Palestine has been destroyed and the remaining Palestinian people of that identity die out.

it's not going to happen. Palestinians are just as resourceful and educated people as Israelis. They have a lot more in common than any other pair.

 

[Danidl]

I would have thought the opposite is right.
When people get richer, they will want to improve the environment and welfare.
Their view moves to the left.

When people get richer they want to improve their environment. What they term as their environment depends on their global reach.
Welfare of others is not necessarily linked .
If newspaper are to be believed ,the upcomming event in Windsor will result in a cleaning up of the environment, part of which will involve the dislocation of unsightly vagrant to other towns off the tourist trail.

 

[Zlatan]

Just as a lighter OT break and linked to the Boxster discussion, read this other day , its about handling of cars.....if you get my drift..

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

Thought it was very clever.

 

[Danidl]

it's not going to happen. Palestinians are just as resourceful and educated people as Israelis. They have a lot more in common than any other pair.

Unfortunately for them they don't have as many powerfull friends.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Just as a lighter OT break and linked to the Boxster discussion, read this other day , its about handling of cars.....if you get my drift..

"Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car, oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you take the wall with you"

Thought it was very clever.

The latest 718 Boxster is a 4 cylinder turbo,the 918 older model was a 6 cylinder,many prefer the manual drive old model to the TPK new model,the old model is holding its price,the new model is falling.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

But that's exactly why the problem is impossible to solve. Israel does now exist and its inhabitants are deserving of UN protection...as are Palestinians.
Can you imagine the situation had Israel been established elsewhere. ( Australia? China? Vietnam . My personal view is Israel should have been a state within USA. ( Geographically and politically. ) Would have made far more sense than in Palestine.

I recently read a novel in which this was the central theme... in this book an nuclear explosion apparently occurred in one of the central desert states .. Nevada or Dakota making it apparently uninhabitable and an exclusion zone declared. Meanwhile and over the suceeding 10 years the Israeli state with US collusion built a new set of buildings and potential farms. Then they in secret transported their 9 million population over They then sold the concept to the US as being cheaper than continual aid .

 

[Kudoscycles]

Wake up Mrs May....high business rates,high parking charges and tax fraud by the likes of Amazon and E-Bay are destroying the high street....Debenhams,House of Fraser,Fenwicks,Toys R Us,M&S are all in problems,some I suspect terminal.
Governments have looked upon these companies as easy to get tax out of,whereas the likes of Amazon are difficult to deal with. They are big employers,with their loss the high street will be just charity shops,hairdressers and coffee bars....the latter will also suffer if there is no reason to travel into town.
Brexit caused the £ to weaken against the dollar,making the purchase costs higher and with stagnant wages we can't afford higher prices so margins are being squeezed.
If the government doesn't react then Amazon will dominate everything,they are building low cost distribution centres in every corner of the UK,working for them is close to slave labour. OK they are providing employment which the government like because it keeps the unemployment numbers down but ultimately the cost could destroy our country.
Is this government bright enough to see what is happening,unfortunately I don't think so,several of the big retailers will go bust and then it will be too late.
KudosDave

 

[Wicky]

When Palestine has been destroyed and the remaining Palestinian people of that identity die out. As I posted, the Israeli policy of ethnic cleansing approved by the West.
.

flecc wrote: "ethnic cleansing"

eh what https://knoema.com/atlas/Palestine/Death-rate

https://knoema.com/atlas/Palestine/Population-growth-rate

"Palestine population growth rate was at level of 2.9 % in 2016, unchanged from the previous year."

"Since the establishment of limited Palestinian self-rule in the West Bank and Gaza Strip in the mid-1990s, the U.S. government has committed more than $5 billion in bilateral economic and non-lethal security assistance to the Palestinians , who are among the world's largest per capita recipients of international foreign aid."

If the Israelis / West are doing what you claim, (unsucessfully if their intention is to wipe them out) then maybe they should take lessons from Assad / Putin...