Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

Really? how strange then that the class sizes of the school I went to were double those in size of modern ones?
There was no space for Maternity cases as the hospitals were full of war casualties?
You live in a nonsense world of your own creation.
The only line that made sense was the last one.
Brexit will lead to food riots.

So schools have got better since you attended ?? When was that OG ? I,d guess mid 50's..?? ( no insult meant if it wasn't) Thought all these tory governments had made things worse..
For once I agree with basis of your post. We are better off than any other time in history..( definitely than 50,s) So how come all the bitterness toward our system ?
You are doing same as so many..
Anti May, Anti Brexit, Anti Tory... but pro what ?
All the hypocrite wealthy activists do it..
" we are against poverty, exploitation, suffering, hunger..blah blah blah" Well actually so are we all, but the answers lie in offering solutions...not knocking what is going on all the time or pointing out the bloody obvious.

 

[Woosh]

Anti May, Anti Brexit, Anti Tory... but pro what ?

I am pro soft brexit, centrism and a coalition government.

 

[Zlatan]

I am pro soft brexit, centrism and a coalition government.

I think I,d support that aswell Woosh.

 

[Steb]

I am pro soft brexit, centrism and a coalition government.

I think I,d support that aswell Woosh.

after blair, the Iraq war, the Cameron libdem coalition and the 08 financial crisis supporting centrism and coalition is very, very brave of both of you. I'm not sure we can, physically, survive a repeat of it. in the spirit of saying what we're for, I support corbyn, in a parallel world there is a labour government that steers uk in the direction of something like Sweden - high tax, high quality public services, high quality of life, (and less overt obsession with consumption, financial speculation and invading foreign countries for oil). having lived in Sweden I think very high taxes is a ridiculously small price to pay for the privilege to live in a civilised society.

 

[flecc]

This is the problem and why it doesn’t, can’t and never will work.

Well, almost.

It can work if the responsibilities of socialism are enforced, but of course that can be unpleasant for some in such a state.

There are exceptions though, Sweden for example, a very level and fair society.
.

 

[Woosh]

having lived in Sweden I think very high taxes is a ridiculously small price to pay for the privilege to live in a civilised society.

times and times again, the UK electorate has voted for lower taxes.
Blair knew that and promised 'no new taxes' in 97.

 

[Steb]

Well, almost.

It can work if the responsibilities of socialism are enforced, but of course that can be unpleasant for some in such a state.

There are exceptions though, Sweden for example, a very level and fair society.
.

I was thinking there could be a third door ("work a bit, do what you enjoy and get some stuff")

 

[flecc]

I am pro soft brexit, centrism and a coalition government.

Well done, two and a half out of three.

Must do better.
,

 

[Steb]

times and times again, the UK electorate has voted for lower taxes.

that's true, but UK society has an unwholesome stratification in some ways: a small enclave of super rich who own the media and MP's and set the political agenda (and naturally emphasise tax cuts, for corporations and the rich - not the middle classes), and a large number of voters who are either trapped in this system or mindlessly colluding with it.

 

[OxygenJames]

Well, almost.

It can work if the responsibilities of socialism are enforced, but of course that can be unpleasant for some in such a state.

There are exceptions though, Sweden for example, a very level and fair society.
.

I have family in Sweden - since records began in 1890 Sweden has shown a consistently low ratio of inequality - in fact they have had an egalitarian society almost since time began - you can trace it back to 1000AD when Kings were elected (up until 1523 when Gustav Vasa became King).

I've chatted much about this and the general consensus seems to be that as its so bloody cold everybody always had to work with each other to make it even possible to live there. Their psyche is completely different to the US/UK (and even French) where individualism is rated much higher - not so in Sweden where culturally the norm is to be conservative (small c) and not to show off etc.

You see it in their much smaller size of the media, sports and entertainment industries - where people are not so keen to be 'stars' and therefore pay differentials are much lower. But its a cultural thing. Socialism just happens to fit into it - fit into the culture that was already there.

Plus - bear in mind - they pay humungous amounts of tax - 60%+ - there's no minimum wage - in fact there's pretty much no employment law at all - and you can't buy alcohol except in government shops.

Swings and roundabouts.

 

[Steb]

I have family in Sweden - since records began in 1890 Sweden has shown a consistently low ratio of inequality - in fact they have had an egalitarian society almost since time began - you can trace it back to 1000AD when Kings were elected (up until 1523 when Gustav Vasa became King).

I've chatted much about this and the general consensus seems to be that as its so bloody cold everybody always had to work with each other to make it even possible to live there. Their psyche is completely different to the US/UK (and even French) where individualism is rated much higher - not so in Sweden where culturally the norm is to be conservative (small c) and not to show off etc.

You see it in their much smaller size of the media, sports and entertainment industries - where people are not so keen to be 'stars' and therefore pay differentials are much lower. But its a cultural thing. Socialism just happens to fit into it - fit into the culture that was already there.

Plus - bear in mind - they pay humungous amounts of tax - 60%+ - there's no minimum wage - in fact there's pretty much no employment law at all - and you can't buy alcohol except in government shops.

Swings and roundabouts.

to a point that's true, except for the minimum wage bit. companies are by law obliged to sign agreements with unions to agree a minimum wage based on a person age and experience. for example, in 2016 this was the minimum for staff in hotels and restaurants

• Age 17: 84,50 sek per hour ($9,94)

• Age 18: 88,60 sek per hour ($10,42)

• Age 19: 96,80 sek per hour ($11,39)

• Age 20 and above, with no experience and no education required: 116,90 sek per hour ($13,75)

• Age 20 and above, with 6 years' experience and no education required: 124,90 sek per hour ($14,69)

• Age 20 and above, with no experience but education required: 124,00 sek per hour ($14,59)

• Age 20 and above, with 6 years' experience and education required: 132,00 sek per hour ($15,53)

 

[oldtom]

It isn't difficult to spot from the posts in this thread, those without a scintilla of humanitarian spirit. Those who continually point to the poor and the unsophisticated, the sick and disabled, claiming that they are all benefit cheats are disgusting examples of the human species.

Those who howl their condemnation of socialism and of Jeremy Corbyn, always attaching the the enormous tory lie about Labour's fiscal husbandry of treasury resources are responsible for every single death caused by NHS underfunding. They are culpable also for every death of a homeless person on our streets and every refugee drowned attempting to flee from the middle-east war zones or Afghanistan, or indeed anywhere the UK has assisted the American and Israeli warmongers.

They are responsible because they chose to vote for greedy monsters with no compassion for the 'have-nots' in society, in the hope that they may become as rich and powerful as those they idolise due to their political direction.

Any decent human being living in the UK would be ashamed that this is happening:



It seems though, that only those people who do not vote for the criminal, tory scum are ashamed to be British when this can happen in the 21st century.



Only tory voters could argue a case for such unfairness.



This is where we are at today.

Well done 'Brexidiots' - you are all tories, every last one of you.......but many of you didn't realise it when you fell for all the lies you bought when you cast your vote in the referendum.

Now, you cannot even bring yourselves to admit you were mugged!

Tom

 

[Danidl]

It isn't difficult to spot from the posts in this thread, those without a scintilla of humanitarian spirit. Those who continually point to the poor and the unsophisticated, the sick and disabled, claiming that they are all benefit cheats are disgusting examples of the human species.

Those who howl their condemnation of socialism and of Jeremy Corbyn, always attaching the the enormous tory lie about Labour's fiscal husbandry of treasury resources are responsible for every single death caused by NHS underfunding. They are culpable also for every death of a homeless person on our streets and every refugee drowned attempting to flee from the middle-east war zones or Afghanistan, or indeed anywhere the UK has assisted the American and Israeli warmongers.

They are responsible because they chose to vote for greedy monsters with no compassion for the 'have-nots' in society, in the hope that they may become as rich and powerful as those they idolise due to their political direction.

Any decent human being living in the UK would be ashamed that this is happening:

View attachment 22932

It seems though, that only those people who do not vote for the criminal, tory scum are ashamed to be British when this can happen in the 21st century.

View attachment 22933

Only tory voters could argue a case for such unfairness.

View attachment 22934

This is where we are at today.

Well done 'Brexidiots' - you are all tories, every last one of you.......but many of you didn't realise it when you fell for all the lies you bought when you cast your vote in the referendum.

Now, you cannot even bring yourselves to admit you were mugged!

Tom

I'm not going to break my policy of not commenting in internal British politics . Just however a correction. Mr Hammond is not a public sector worker. He is a ruler of the British people , selected by your parliament as representing the people and entrusted by them for a fixed period of time.
It is the bizarre situation which has arisen due to unnatural polarisation within the Westminster parliament which has allowed a minority government comprisd of the landowning class to be held in power and at ransom by a northern Ireland party who come from the other side of the economic class (DUP)and enabled by the refusal of a similar economic class based party ( SF) to engage in parliamentary democracy.
Until the broad base of MPs realise that they are the representatives of their constituancies that nonsense will continue

 

[anotherkiwi]

The French minister of finance is paid 12885€/month before social security, pension and other reductions. That comes to about 118732€ a year - £104993 at today's rate.

 

[flecc]

The French minister of finance is paid 12885€/month before social security, pension and other reductions. That comes to about 118732€ a year - £104993 at today's rate.

Only 2 pence a minute. He must be jealous of Philip Hammond's 2.7 pence.
.

 

[Woosh]

Those who howl their condemnation of socialism and of Jeremy Corbyn, always attaching the the enormous tory lie about Labour's fiscal husbandry of treasury resources are responsible for every single death caused by NHS underfunding.

Corbyn's and McDonnell's economics would be very different from previous labour government (Blair's and Brown's).
I personally don't think that their tax plan is credible.

 

[Steb]

Corbyn's and McDonnell's economics would be very different from previous labour government (Blair's and Brown's).
I personally don't think that their tax plan is credible.

not in terms of maintaining the status quo (an increasing and dramatically unequal distribution of wealth and economy based on offshore tax havens laundering criminal enterprise from Ukraine, Russia, middle east; large arms conglomerates profiting from instability etc etc).
but as part of a shift towards egalitarian society and more developed economy, possibly.
I don't think the corrupt conniving plutocracy of new "labour" and Conservative governments with the fig leave of a house of commons pretend democracy (we all know who really pay them and offer them jobs after brief "careers") is sustainable.

 

[flecc]

Corbyn's and McDonnell's economics would be very different from previous labour government (Blair's and Brown's).

That's a blessing.
.

 

[tillson]

Brexit will lead to food riots.

I think they are coming, brexit or no brexit. It’s global over population which is the cause, brexit has no influence, other than it may stave off the food riots for a few years, but they will inevitably happen.

 

[Woosh]

That's a blessing.
.

blessing or not, if their tax plan is not credible, they won't get that many middle ground taxpaying, slightly better than the JAMs (those that earn near the high rate, so not affected by their last tax plan) votes - without which, labour will stay on the opposition benches.