Brexit, for once some facts.

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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apparently, London now wants to stay in the Single Market too.
My guess many other cities would like the same, leaving hard brexiters representing farmers, fishermen and Weatherspoon pubs.
 
apparently, London now wants to stay in the Single Market too.
My guess many other cities would like the same, leaving hard brexiters representing farmers, fishermen and Weatherspoon pubs.
Well yes, apart from the fact that the Farmers and Fisherman also want to keep the benefits and even Wetherspoons have been on this today, saying he needs immigrant labour.

Its as if everyone is finally starting to realise what the membership of the EU gives us.
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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N.I. to have different rules to the rest of the UK, following another Theresa May concession.

The Irish border will be subject to “regulatory alignment”, a new wording to make acceptance of some EU rules in N.I. sound more acceptable.

Can't see the DUP being thrilled.
.
Please Sir, can we have some of that too? :rolleyes:
 
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Danidl

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One of the advantages of living near the Rioja is finding really nice wines at 18€ the 15 liter BIB... :rolleyes: Champagne (drinkable) is from about 14€ and up, 25€ are the better known brands but I prefer unknown names direct from the property at about 17-18€.

But I prefer Blanquette de Limoux: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanquette_de_Limoux the ancestor of Champagne which is about 8€ a bottle.
In that department, our family preference is a sparkling wine called "clairette de die", .. as close as the spelling checker will allow me..about the same price. We used it instead if champagne at a recent wedding... Very pleasant.
 
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Zlatan

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One of the advantages of living near the Rioja is finding really nice wines at 18€ the 15 liter BIB... :rolleyes: Champagne (drinkable) is from about 14€ and up, 25€ are the better known brands but I prefer unknown names direct from the property at about 17-18€.

But I prefer Blanquette de Limoux: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanquette_de_Limoux the ancestor of Champagne which is about 8€ a bottle.
You should try the cheap stuff from Lidl. ( only available in France) Its 2.20 euro... We put some in an expensive champagne bottle and took it to a pretentious wine tasting do...( alll bottles wrapped in silver foil). It came second out of a choice of 8....
We never pay more than 3 euro a bottle for red, white ,rose or champagne...throw lots away mind...
 
Its all going to work out ok.



The areas in YELLOW voted to REMAIN in the European Union so will continue to TRADE FREELY within the EU. There will be a HARD BORDER between the YELLOW and BLUE areas, who voted to LEAVE. The RED LINES represent a SERIES OF ELABORATE ZIPWIRES to transport PEOPLE and GOODS.
 

tommie

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at last an Irish citizen telling it how it is..

Ireland, the EU is playing you like a fiddle

Brendan O'Neill

The EU has no shame. It is a completely shame-free zone. How else do we explain the grotesque spectacle of EC President Donald Tusk cosying up to Ireland this weekend, and claiming to respect Irish sovereignty, as if the past 15 years of Brussels treating Ireland as a colonial plaything had never happened? As if the EU hadn’t time and again overridden the Irish people’s democratic wishes? As if the EU didn’t just a few years ago send financial experts to run the Irish economy above the heads of the apparently dim Irish demos? Tusk claiming to be a friend of the Irish takes EU chutzpah to dizzying new heights.

EU officials were all over Ireland at the weekend. Tusk decreed that Ireland would have the final say on the Brexit deal. And if the deal hardens the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, then the Republic can choose to scupper it. ‘The key to the UK’s future lies, in some ways, in Dublin,’ said Tusk. Plucky little Ireland and the monolithic EU are as one, he said: ‘The Irish request is the EU request.’

Today Tusk tweeted ‘Tell me why I like Mondays!’ — cringe — after apparently having an encouraging phone call with Taoiseach Leo Varadkar about Brexit and Ireland — which will be bad news for Brexiteers. All over Twitter EU officials have been fawning over the Irish. Guy Verhofstadt, Brexit negotiator for the EU Parliament, tweeted ‘Ireland decides’, with the hashtag: #IamIrish.


As an Irish citizen currently mortified beyond description by the the weaponisation of Ireland’s border concerns against Brits’ democratic vote for Brexit, I have only one thing to say to this EU love for Paddies: pass me the sickbag. The EU respects Ireland’s borders and national integrity like a shark respects a seal. Is the crisis of historical memory now so pronounced that we have forgotten how the EU treated Ireland when its people had the temerity to vote against the Nice Treaty and the Lisbon Treaty? It was the polar opposite of ‘The Irish request is the EU request’; it was more like ‘The Irish request is pig ignorant and must be ignored by all good people’.

Years before the EU referendum, our Irish cousins were revolting against Brussels. In June 2001 the Irish stunned EU officials by rejecting the Nice Treaty in EU enlargement. The EU was at first bamboozled, then furious. It said the result was unacceptable — not least because the Irish had received so much EU cash — and it insisted the Irish be made to vote again. In the words of Roger Cole of the anti-EU Peace and Neutrality Alliance, the EU’s ‘contempt for the Irish people clearly showed in their reaction to our vote against the [Nice] Treaty’. In the second referendum in 2002, under huge political and economic pressure from every wing of the establishment, the Irish relented and voted Nice through.

In 2008, the Irish people voted against the Lisbon Treaty, which was in essence a new constitution for the EU. A Brussels insider described them as ‘ungrateful bastards’. The EC said there was ‘no Plan B’ to Lisbon — in short, it would carry on regardless of what the daft Irish thought. Pro-EU commentators insisted the Irish had been brain-warped by ‘populist demagogues’. It was precursor to the snobbish, anti-democratic fury that has likewise greeted the Brexit vote in certain EU fanboy circles. On Lisbon, too, the Irish were forced to vote again, and again they gave in the second time round.

Not content with dissing Irish voters, the EU then took over the running of their country in 2011. It sent the Troika — the EC, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund — to oversee an overhauling of Irish public spending in order to keep the Euro ticking over. The Troika suits were effectively an unelected government. In the words of an Irish Times account of how they conducted their affairs in Ireland, they ensured that ‘members of the government were deliberately kept in the dark’. A budget for Ireland was drawn up by EU officials who didn’t consult Ireland’s own cabinet. To the EU, Ireland is a kind of colonial outpost, and its people pesky, irritating know-nothings.

And yet now the EU says it is Ireland’s mate and trusts it to make big decisions. It really doesn’t. It wants Ireland to do one thing and one thing only: wound Brexit. Ireland is being played like a fiddle. It is being used by an EU that is still reeling from our brilliant Brexit sucker-punch and which is so desperate to preserve its flagging authority that it is willing to pit Ireland against Britain; the Irish government against the British people; Irish concerns against British democracy. This is cynical, divisive and dangerous. An oligarchical institution that has demonstrated nothing but contempt for Irish and British voters and which is so speedily losing the plot that it’s happy to stir up tensions between nations in order to do over a democratic vote? With each passing day I grow happier and happier that I voted for Brexit.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/12/ireland-the-eu-is-playing-you-like-a-fiddle/
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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at last an Irish citizen telling it how it is..

Ireland, the EU is playing you like a fiddle

Brendan O'Neill

The EU has no shame. It is a completely shame-free zone. How else do we explain the grotesque spectacle of EC President Donald Tusk cosying up to Ireland this weekend, and claiming to respect Irish sovereignty, as if the past 15 years of Brussels treating Ireland as a colonial plaything had never happened? As if the EU hadn’t time and again overridden the Irish people’s democratic wishes? As if the EU didn’t just a few years ago send financial experts to run the Irish economy above the heads of the apparently dim Irish demos? Tusk claiming to be a friend of the Irish takes EU chutzpah to dizzying new heights.

EU officials were all over Ireland at the weekend. Tusk decreed that Ireland would have the final say on the Brexit deal. And if the deal hardens the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, then the Republic can choose to scupper it. ‘The key to the UK’s future lies, in some ways, in Dublin,’ said Tusk. Plucky little Ireland and the monolithic EU are as one, he said: ‘The Irish request is the EU request.’

Today Tusk tweeted ‘Tell me why I like Mondays!’ — cringe — after apparently having an encouraging phone call with Taoiseach Leo Varadkar about Brexit and Ireland — which will be bad news for Brexiteers. All over Twitter EU officials have been fawning over the Irish. Guy Verhofstadt, Brexit negotiator for the EU Parliament, tweeted ‘Ireland decides’, with the hashtag: #IamIrish.


As an Irish citizen currently mortified beyond description by the the weaponisation of Ireland’s border concerns against Brits’ democratic vote for Brexit, I have only one thing to say to this EU love for Paddies: pass me the sickbag. The EU respects Ireland’s borders and national integrity like a shark respects a seal. Is the crisis of historical memory now so pronounced that we have forgotten how the EU treated Ireland when its people had the temerity to vote against the Nice Treaty and the Lisbon Treaty? It was the polar opposite of ‘The Irish request is the EU request’; it was more like ‘The Irish request is pig ignorant and must be ignored by all good people’.

Years before the EU referendum, our Irish cousins were revolting against Brussels. In June 2001 the Irish stunned EU officials by rejecting the Nice Treaty in EU enlargement. The EU was at first bamboozled, then furious. It said the result was unacceptable — not least because the Irish had received so much EU cash — and it insisted the Irish be made to vote again. In the words of Roger Cole of the anti-EU Peace and Neutrality Alliance, the EU’s ‘contempt for the Irish people clearly showed in their reaction to our vote against the [Nice] Treaty’. In the second referendum in 2002, under huge political and economic pressure from every wing of the establishment, the Irish relented and voted Nice through.

In 2008, the Irish people voted against the Lisbon Treaty, which was in essence a new constitution for the EU. A Brussels insider described them as ‘ungrateful bastards’. The EC said there was ‘no Plan B’ to Lisbon — in short, it would carry on regardless of what the daft Irish thought. Pro-EU commentators insisted the Irish had been brain-warped by ‘populist demagogues’. It was precursor to the snobbish, anti-democratic fury that has likewise greeted the Brexit vote in certain EU fanboy circles. On Lisbon, too, the Irish were forced to vote again, and again they gave in the second time round.

Not content with dissing Irish voters, the EU then took over the running of their country in 2011. It sent the Troika — the EC, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund — to oversee an overhauling of Irish public spending in order to keep the Euro ticking over. The Troika suits were effectively an unelected government. In the words of an Irish Times account of how they conducted their affairs in Ireland, they ensured that ‘members of the government were deliberately kept in the dark’. A budget for Ireland was drawn up by EU officials who didn’t consult Ireland’s own cabinet. To the EU, Ireland is a kind of colonial outpost, and its people pesky, irritating know-nothings.

And yet now the EU says it is Ireland’s mate and trusts it to make big decisions. It really doesn’t. It wants Ireland to do one thing and one thing only: wound Brexit. Ireland is being played like a fiddle. It is being used by an EU that is still reeling from our brilliant Brexit sucker-punch and which is so desperate to preserve its flagging authority that it is willing to pit Ireland against Britain; the Irish government against the British people; Irish concerns against British democracy. This is cynical, divisive and dangerous. An oligarchical institution that has demonstrated nothing but contempt for Irish and British voters and which is so speedily losing the plot that it’s happy to stir up tensions between nations in order to do over a democratic vote? With each passing day I grow happier and happier that I voted for Brexit.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/12/ireland-the-eu-is-playing-you-like-a-fiddle/
But you're not getting brexit are you Tommie? Is that why you are happier?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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at last an Irish citizen telling it how it is..

Ireland, the EU is playing you like a fiddle

Brendan O'Neill

The EU has no shame. It is a completely shame-free zone. How else do we explain the grotesque spectacle of EC President Donald Tusk cosying up to Ireland this weekend, and claiming to respect Irish sovereignty, as if the past 15 years of Brussels treating Ireland as a colonial plaything had never happened? As if the EU hadn’t time and again overridden the Irish people’s democratic wishes? As if the EU didn’t just a few years ago send financial experts to run the Irish economy above the heads of the apparently dim Irish demos? Tusk claiming to be a friend of the Irish takes EU chutzpah to dizzying new heights.

EU officials were all over Ireland at the weekend. Tusk decreed that Ireland would have the final say on the Brexit deal. And if the deal hardens the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, then the Republic can choose to scupper it. ‘The key to the UK’s future lies, in some ways, in Dublin,’ said Tusk. Plucky little Ireland and the monolithic EU are as one, he said: ‘The Irish request is the EU request.’

Today Tusk tweeted ‘Tell me why I like Mondays!’ — cringe — after apparently having an encouraging phone call with Taoiseach Leo Varadkar about Brexit and Ireland — which will be bad news for Brexiteers. All over Twitter EU officials have been fawning over the Irish. Guy Verhofstadt, Brexit negotiator for the EU Parliament, tweeted ‘Ireland decides’, with the hashtag: #IamIrish.


As an Irish citizen currently mortified beyond description by the the weaponisation of Ireland’s border concerns against Brits’ democratic vote for Brexit, I have only one thing to say to this EU love for Paddies: pass me the sickbag. The EU respects Ireland’s borders and national integrity like a shark respects a seal. Is the crisis of historical memory now so pronounced that we have forgotten how the EU treated Ireland when its people had the temerity to vote against the Nice Treaty and the Lisbon Treaty? It was the polar opposite of ‘The Irish request is the EU request’; it was more like ‘The Irish request is pig ignorant and must be ignored by all good people’.

Years before the EU referendum, our Irish cousins were revolting against Brussels. In June 2001 the Irish stunned EU officials by rejecting the Nice Treaty in EU enlargement. The EU was at first bamboozled, then furious. It said the result was unacceptable — not least because the Irish had received so much EU cash — and it insisted the Irish be made to vote again. In the words of Roger Cole of the anti-EU Peace and Neutrality Alliance, the EU’s ‘contempt for the Irish people clearly showed in their reaction to our vote against the [Nice] Treaty’. In the second referendum in 2002, under huge political and economic pressure from every wing of the establishment, the Irish relented and voted Nice through.

In 2008, the Irish people voted against the Lisbon Treaty, which was in essence a new constitution for the EU. A Brussels insider described them as ‘ungrateful bastards’. The EC said there was ‘no Plan B’ to Lisbon — in short, it would carry on regardless of what the daft Irish thought. Pro-EU commentators insisted the Irish had been brain-warped by ‘populist demagogues’. It was precursor to the snobbish, anti-democratic fury that has likewise greeted the Brexit vote in certain EU fanboy circles. On Lisbon, too, the Irish were forced to vote again, and again they gave in the second time round.

Not content with dissing Irish voters, the EU then took over the running of their country in 2011. It sent the Troika — the EC, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund — to oversee an overhauling of Irish public spending in order to keep the Euro ticking over. The Troika suits were effectively an unelected government. In the words of an Irish Times account of how they conducted their affairs in Ireland, they ensured that ‘members of the government were deliberately kept in the dark’. A budget for Ireland was drawn up by EU officials who didn’t consult Ireland’s own cabinet. To the EU, Ireland is a kind of colonial outpost, and its people pesky, irritating know-nothings.

And yet now the EU says it is Ireland’s mate and trusts it to make big decisions. It really doesn’t. It wants Ireland to do one thing and one thing only: wound Brexit. Ireland is being played like a fiddle. It is being used by an EU that is still reeling from our brilliant Brexit sucker-punch and which is so desperate to preserve its flagging authority that it is willing to pit Ireland against Britain; the Irish government against the British people; Irish concerns against British democracy. This is cynical, divisive and dangerous. An oligarchical institution that has demonstrated nothing but contempt for Irish and British voters and which is so speedily losing the plot that it’s happy to stir up tensions between nations in order to do over a democratic vote? With each passing day I grow happier and happier that I voted for Brexit.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/12/ireland-the-eu-is-playing-you-like-a-fiddle/
There is a slightly better article by David Trimble in the actual spectator magazine dated 2nd december. There are a few points in it I would disagree with, particularly his contention that Leo was attempting to come accross as more green than SF and or posturing in the likelihood of a general election. Those points ignored, it is a valuable insight.
 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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There is a slightly better article by David Trimble in the actual spectator magazine dated 2nd december. There are a few points in it I would disagree with, particularly his contention that Leo was attempting to come accross as more green than SF and or posturing in the likelihood of a general election. Those points ignored, it is a valuable insight.
The article by O'Neill is so riddled with inaccuracies that it is not worth dissecting.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,216
30,617
Laura Kuenssberg‏Verified account@bbclaurak

Hearing it was the DUP call that sunk today's chances of a deal - Foster held her press conf, 20 mins later May leaves talks with Juncker to call her, goes back into the room and the deal is off.


Yep, deal will be on DUP`s terms Mr. Juncker!
Dream on, the DUP were always going to be the losers in this issue:

The R.o.I. is in the EU.

N.I. voted to stay in the EU.

The UK don't want a hard border between them.

The R.o.I. don't want a hard border.

N.I. doesn't want a hard border.

The DUP don't want a hard border.

But the DUP blocks the only solution acceptable to all other parties, despite wanting the same soft border as all the others.

Typically perverse, and they'll lose.
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It WILL be a `sensible` border on the DUP`s terms.... end of

View attachment 22359
So how will that work?

The border has to either be.

a) Between Ireland and NI,

b) between NI and rest of UK.

or

c) we call the whole thing off.

Is there an option d)? Because if there is I suspect the whole of Europe would be all ears
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,216
30,617
It WILL be a `sensible` border on the DUP`s terms.... end of

View attachment 22359
Arlene Foster is wrong in saying she will not accept any regulatory divergence. Such divergence already exists and is accepted by the DUP:

N.I. subjects have the right to be R.o.I. citizens.

N.I. subjects have the right to be EU citizens.

Other UK citizens without Irish relationships have no such automatic rights.

Ergo, there is already regulatory divergence and Brexit doesn't mean N.I.'s subjects are leaving the EU completely. Only the geography is really leaving and with "regulatory divergence", even that will hardly be fully leaving.
.
 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
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The European Union
In that department, our family preference is a sparkling wine called "clairette de die", .. as close as the spelling checker will allow me..about the same price. We used it instead if champagne at a recent wedding... Very pleasant.
Quel horreur ! :eek: Headache guaranteed!
 
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