Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

In my case, it's because I like being a citizen of Europe and I do not wish to condemn my children and grandchildren to economic and political isolation, while they watch 27 other sovereign nation states become wealthier and more influential in the world than the UK can ever be again.

We are going the way of all great empires with the exception that we are actively contributing to our own downfall.

Tom

Not WE, They, the Brexit Voters.

 

[oldgroaner]

you are not taking their personal viewpoint into account.

Really? I thought flecc had done that!

 

[oldgroaner]

Since we now have a custom of asking the public's advice on matters they don't understand, perhaps she'll have a referendum on what sort of Irish border the people would like.

Since the people of the ROI wouldn't be able to vote in it, out of fairness and a need for balance and impartiality, she might exclude the people of Northern Ireland as well.

I'm sure the DUP would understand.
.

For a small additional consideration?

 

[flecc]

For a small additional consideration?

Yes, another billion should do it, though once the DUP realise they are virtual billions they might kick up.
.

 

[oldtom]

Mladic is sentenced to life for his crimes in the Bosnian War, Gerry Houdini Adams should be thankful that the PIRA leadership is not in the the Hague charged with war crimes including ethnic cleansing & the deliberate targeting of civilians

That is just bigotry on your part.

Tom

 

[tommie]

How so?

 

[oldtom]

How so?

That you ask that question is evidence enough that you are blinkered and have no real understanding of either Irish or British history.

Tom

 

[tommie]

Mladic is sentenced to life for his crimes in the Bosnian War, Gerry Houdini Adams should be thankful that the PIRA leadership is not in the the Hague charged with war crimes including ethnic cleansing & the deliberate targeting of civilians

How is that Bigotry??!

Come on, please explain which part???

 

[oldtom]

The yellowbelly coward who sold all his party's principles for a taste of power in 2010 and is now attempting to reinvent himself as a mainstream political figure has spoken publicly about the EU border-to be in Ireland. Sadly, as he is both a proven liar and anti-socialist, his words can be disregarded, even if the point he makes is correct if hardly original.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1856844897689159

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

If the UK leaves without an agreed customs structure, yes we will have a land border on the island. I flagged that up in one of my very early posts. I realised it on the day after the referendum. We know that, but we are not going to facilitate it.
The problems of a UK outside the EU, without the supports of the eu, without financial passporting, without ryanair, , with miles and miles of lorries at ports , without free movement of fresh food, from Ireland, France, Denmark, Netherlands, are going to pose such problems that a container of ebikes will be chickenfeed..
.. Duck, mushrooms, baileys Irish liquor, lettuce, fresh milk, spanish tomatoes all off the menu. It will need the Dunkirk spirit all over again.
The supply chains for these goods are so intricate, that they take years to re-establish once severed.
This is what your friends in Europe have been trying to tell you....
The irony is that this is being faciliated by the DUP, whose province voted against it and those economy will in all likelihood be the worst affected of the UK regions.

You don't need to tell us,you need to tell the EU. The EU are threatening again saying we have 10 days to progress cash and the Irish border problem. By now someone should have calculated what we owe,less of course what the EU owes us,nobody seems to want to reveal that number,this is not 'grey' money ,this is what is not in dispute.
We should then ask the EU what they want as a border,this should then be considered by Ireland,NI and the U.K. After all,a border has 2 sides why should all the suggestions come from the UK,the EU/Ireland should suggest ideas.
If no border is achieved trade will continue between Ireland and NI,it may not be managed trade but who cares.
It's looking like we are 'crashing out' which so many of the Tory bastards seem to want,I suspect it will be messy but it will put pressure on the EU to get constructive,the EU will be desperate for money without any payments from the UK and have to turn to the rest of the states for more money,the U.K. won't be popular but that is life.
Ps....e-bikes don't run on chicken feed !!!
KudosDave

 

[oldtom]

The liars leading the nation into international oblivion just don't give up - the tory stock-in-trade is lies and here is another recent example:



Eventually, although I believe it will be far too late, the 'Brexidiots' will finally realise that they have been conned - taken for a ride by a coterie of vociferous agents of the British establishment and all to further divide the country between the haves and the have-nots.

That should be fun to watch!



Tom

 

[oldtom]

After all,a border has 2 sides why should all the suggestions come from the UK,the EU/Ireland should suggest ideas.

I cannot understand why you seek to place the onus on the EU, Dave. We all know what the status quo position was and, indeed, still remains.

The change which is scheduled to come about in March 2019 is the result, not of any action by the EU, but by the desire of the UK to unfriend itself from 27 other sovereign nation states, currently our friends. In the full knowledge of the ramifications of 'Brexit' and the ideals and rules relating to membership of the EU, surely it is incumbent on the UK to ensure a secure border exists around all British territory, thus permitting those states of the EU to continue to enjoy the benefits of membership that we have been party to for decades?

The best deal in town remains full membership and participation at the heart of all EU business so we should not accept anything less just to satisfy a bunch of fascists and their mentally deficient racist supporters right-wing extremist fans.

Tom

 

[Danidl]

That you ask that question is evidence enough that you are blinkered and have no real understanding of either Irish or British history.

Tom

I would think that as Tommie lives in Co Down , he has some idea . Whether he has lived enough of the" troubles " , to have a realistic view, may be in doubt, as he may have either direct experience or is believing stories he has been told by others that would depend on his age. . However I am prepared to believe that he has had a similar history he has seen the damage done murder squads in the border areas. For those unfamiliar there is a song by the sands family called "there were roses" which might give an inkling.

 

[Danidl]

The yellowbelly coward who sold all his party's principles for a taste of power in 2010 and is now attempting to reinvent himself as a mainstream political figure has spoken publicly about the EU border-to be in Ireland. Sadly, as he is both a proven liar and anti-socialist, his words can be disregarded, even if the point he makes is correct if hardly original.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1856844897689159

Tom

The validity of his point is not dependant on its originality. As to whether he has a yellow belly.. have you seen him without a shirt?

 

[Danidl]

You don't need to tell us,you need to tell the EU. The EU are threatening again saying we have 10 days to progress cash and the Irish border problem. By now someone should have calculated what we owe,less of course what the EU owes us,nobody seems to want to reveal that number,this is not 'grey' money ,this is what is not in dispute.
We should then ask the EU what they want as a border,this should then be considered by Ireland,NI and the U.K. After all,a border has 2 sides why should all the suggestions come from the UK,the EU/Ireland should suggest ideas.
If no border is achieved trade will continue between Ireland and NI,it may not be managed trade but who cares.
It's looking like we are 'crashing out' which so many of the Tory bastards seem to want,I suspect it will be messy but it will put pressure on the EU to get constructive,the EU will be desperate for money without any payments from the UK and have to turn to the rest of the states for more money,the U.K. won't be popular but that is life.
Ps....e-bikes don't run on chicken feed !!!
KudosDave

I have already responded to the topic of the exit payments and won't bother repeating myself other than to reiterate that the piece I posted from the irish Times concurred with my analysis.
The customs and border have been aired a number of times and it gets tiresome repeating the same statement. Suffice to say the eu would appear to have an understanding and the uk negotiators don't.

 

[oldgroaner]

EU will be desperate for money without any payments from the UK and have to turn to the rest of the states for more money,the U.K. won't be popular but that is life.

Why should the EU be "Desperate"?
They will simply have to shelve or modify some of their plans till we are legally made to cough up the amount we owe.
Let's be realistic, we WILL end up paying our Bill, so the loss to the EU will just be annoying, not critical.

And this confrontational notion they are making "Threats" dosn't help, does it?
They are in a position to decide how and when talks progress on their terms.
Not ours.

This is the situation you get into for leaving, that of being a supplicant.
The Brexiters Choice, not the EU and now the Brexiters think that they can demand what the SU should do.
Apart from the Notion we will crash out and not pay our debts (Which we will end up having to) what other leverage have we got?

We are like Brian London after the Cassius Clay Fight, remember that?

Brian London said "I had him worried in the third round!"
Harry Carpenter was amazed, "How could you think that?"
Brian London replied
"He thought he'd killed me!"

 

[oldtom]

There's an interesting article from the Russian, state-sponsored news outfit called RT, which used to be known as 'Russia Today', with regard to India's position on its relationship with the UK:

410891-india-immigrants-free-trade

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Meanwhile in the UK, it seems 'Black Friday' knows no boundaries:



Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

You don't need to tell us,you need to tell the EU. The EU are threatening again saying we have 10 days to progress cash and the Irish border problem. By now someone should have calculated what we owe,less of course what the EU owes us,nobody seems to want to reveal that number,this is not 'grey' money ,this is what is not in dispute.
We should then ask the EU what they want as a border,this should then be considered by Ireland,NI and the U.K. After all,a border has 2 sides why should all the suggestions come from the UK,the EU/Ireland should suggest ideas.
If no border is achieved trade will continue between Ireland and NI,it may not be managed trade but who cares.
It's looking like we are 'crashing out' which so many of the Tory bastards seem to want,I suspect it will be messy but it will put pressure on the EU to get constructive,the EU will be desperate for money without any payments from the UK and have to turn to the rest of the states for more money,the U.K. won't be popular but that is life.
Ps....e-bikes don't run on chicken feed !!!
KudosDave

A simple question really

If we have "Taken back control of our borders"
How can we demand that the EU determines what they should be?
Or even ask them?

We have taken back control, it's the "Will of the people"
Or was that an illusion?
Another lie to add to all the others?

 

[oldgroaner]

There's an interesting article from the Russian, state-sponsored news outfit called RT, which used to be known as 'Russia Today', with regard to India's position on its relationship with the UK:

410891-india-immigrants-free-trade

Tom

Hang on a minute wasn't

"“freer movement of people and professionals” is critical for any future trade agreement between the two countries to be “mutually beneficial.”"

Just a nasty EU plot?
That must be true as the Leave Campaign said so!