Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

How would that work? Dont forget our 'wonderful' Mr Liam Fox is intending a free trade deal with China....how would the EU react to goods coming in tariff free into Belfast from China and then being sold into Ireland across the 'no border'....we are discussing this on a site for pedelecs,it could be that post Brexit e-bikes coming into Dublin would be subject to maybe 54% duty,those into Belfast tariff free...that would have Juncker spilling his finest!!!!
Even if we crash out,the WTO tariff I think is 14%,a lot less than 54%.
KudosDave

Obviously the scenario you paint is utterly unacceptable. As would the drugs and guns smuggled from south America and eastern Europe and appearing on the streets of Glasgow and London. As I provided previously there are 5 viable solutions (6 if one includes Tommies highly impracticable one. )
A UK crashout is increasingly likely due to the confusion around the uk cabinet table.
As a compromise, Ireland could host one if the border posts for south Wales. Our port at rosslare has the necessary space and infrastructure to handle traffic from swansea and Pembroke.
In the model I was suggesting, for cairnryan liverpool etc. All trade would go through a joint border customs post manned by both uk and EU officials, and all international trade by sea would be dealt with it there. In Ireland we are familiar with this concept as we have US customs and immigration for air passengers at Dublin and Shannon airports. In these US personnel , with american accents , carry out us immigration proceduress while on irish soil.

 

[Danidl]

why, certainly --> https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/foster-meets-varadkar-says-she-wants-sensible-brexit-1.3122129

At the moment the ROI are being used/bullied again by Barnier etc just like in that Lisbon referendum,

about time you told the EU it`s not our problem mate, sort it out yourselves!!

Lily gilding time again. That Ms Foster wants a sensible result is fine and. dandy. That is a far cry from stating that herself and Leo had had a deal scuppered by the big bad wolves of the EU.. We also want a sensible result.

 

[tommie]

Obviously the scenario you paint is utterly unacceptable. As would the drugs and guns smuggled from south America and eastern Europe and appearing on the streets of Glasgow and London. As I provided previously there are 5 viable solutions (6 if one includes Tommies highly impracticable one. )
A UK crashout is increasingly likely due to the confusion around the uk cabinet table.
As a compromise, Ireland could host one if the border posts for south Wales. Our port at rosslare has the necessary space and infrastructure to handle traffic from swansea and Pembroke.
In the model I was suggesting, for cairnryan liverpool etc. All trade would go through a joint border customs post manned by both uk and EU officials, and all international trade by sea would be dealt with it there. In Ireland we are familiar with this concept as we have US customs and immigration for air passengers at Dublin and Shannon airports. In these US personnel , with american accents , carry out us immigration proceduress while on irish soil.

Aye.... when they were handing Blarney out you were at the head of the queue

I thought for a moment there your TD had entered the thread!

 

[Kudoscycles]

Obviously the scenario you paint is utterly unacceptable. As would the drugs and guns smuggled from south America and eastern Europe and appearing on the streets of Glasgow and London. As I provided previously there are 5 viable solutions (6 if one includes Tommies highly impracticable one. )
A UK crashout is increasingly likely due to the confusion around the uk cabinet table.
As a compromise, Ireland could host one if the border posts for south Wales. Our port at rosslare has the necessary space and infrastructure to handle traffic from swansea and Pembroke.
In the model I was suggesting, for cairnryan liverpool etc. All trade would go through a joint border customs post manned by both uk and EU officials, and all international trade by sea would be dealt with it there. In Ireland we are familiar with this concept as we have US customs and immigration for air passengers at Dublin and Shannon airports. In these US personnel , with american accents , carry out us immigration proceduress while on irish soil.

You managed to ignore the route China>Belfast>Dublin,or is that what the DUP refer to as small business (20%),I done think so!!!!
This is the help your government have stated....

Republic of Ireland leader Leo Varadkar has said the country will not design a border for Brexiteers and insisted there was no proposal that the Irish Sea should become the new frontier with the UK after withdrawal from the European Union.

The Dublin administration is also unconvinced by the UK's plans to use technology to maintain the invisible land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, which will become the boundary with the EU after Brexit.

The border between Northern Ireland and the Republic is one of the key issues that needs to be resolved by the UK and the EU before talks begin on a new trade deal.

The Taoiseach (prime minister) said: "What we're not going to do is to design a border for the Brexiteers because they're the ones who want a border.

"It's up to them to say what it is, say how it would work and first of all convince their own people, their own voters that this is actually a good idea.

"As far as this government is concerned there shouldn't be an economic border. We don't want one."

That helps a lot...I think big brother EU will tell you otherwise!!!!
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

People voted in relation to their personal circumstance. For instance, the situation of the man in Hartlepool that KudosDave mentions many times is not comparable to KudosDave's own, that explains why they voted differently.

But the man from Huddersfield really should have voted Remain,I selfishly quite like the Rees-Mogg version of Brexit,could have voted Leave....but I am trying to look at the bigger picture and consider my kids and grandkids.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

Since NI voted to remain in the EU, surely the sensible option is for NI to leave the UK and rejoin the ROI.
.

That is the SF position. Now as I understand it, that requires a whole ireland poll, and requires the British government enacting a bill to allow a poll to take place in NI. All these eventualities are included in the Good Friday Agreement.
As the DUP are keeping the minority government in place, it is unlikely that the UK government will be proposing it. However I suspect that a number of Labour MPs would vote in favour and it is possibly the only issue on which the SF might be induced to take their Westminster seats.
On the other hand, if the Tories wanted rid of a troublesome problem.. the DUP, who will become irksome when their billion doesn't arrive, they could make it happen....
With a united Ireland, there would be no Irish representatives and a slightly slimmer parliament, they might fancy their chances

So Brexit the gift which keeps on giving...

 

[Danidl]

You managed to ignore the route China>Belfast>Dublin,or is that what the DUP refer to as small business (20%),I done think so!!!!
This is the help your government have stated....

Republic of Ireland leader Leo Varadkar has said the country will not design a border for Brexiteers and insisted there was no proposal that the Irish Sea should become the new frontier with the UK after withdrawal from the European Union.

The Dublin administration is also unconvinced by the UK's plans to use technology to maintain the invisible land border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, which will become the boundary with the EU after Brexit.

The border between Northern Ireland and the Republic is one of the key issues that needs to be resolved by the UK and the EU before talks begin on a new trade deal.

The Taoiseach (prime minister) said: "What we're not going to do is to design a border for the Brexiteers because they're the ones who want a border.

"It's up to them to say what it is, say how it would work and first of all convince their own people, their own voters that this is actually a good idea.

"As far as this government is concerned there shouldn't be an economic border. We don't want one."

That helps a lot...I think big brother EU will tell you otherwise!!!!
KudosDave

I dont think I had excluded traffic from third countries direct to NI ports.. the special EU economic area called NI would have catered for that. Or if not , Uk and EU customs would designate NI ports as regional and not international, so all traffic there from outside the uk or eu would be banned and would be redirected to Liverpool or similar where proper customs faciliates would exist. .. entry into UK followed by export and entry in EU .
All these arrangements are messy and less efficient than the current ones , but hey you voted for Brexit, now live with it!.

 

[Danidl]

Aye.... when they were handing Blarney out you were at the head of the queue

I thought for a moment there your TD had entered the thread!

It is with a sense of pleasure that I note his imminent retirement.

 

[tommie]

It is with a sense of pleasure that I note his imminent retirement.

Mladic is sentenced to life for his crimes in the Bosnian War, Gerry Houdini Adams should be thankful that the PIRA leadership is not in the the Hague charged with war crimes including ethnic cleansing & the deliberate targeting of civilians

 

[Danidl]

You won't find me disagreeing with that assessment. The policy of proxy bombs in the early days was utterly repugnant.
However the long term insistence by the British government that it was not a war makes that case more difficult.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I dont think I had excluded traffic from third countries direct to NI ports.. the special EU economic area called NI would have catered for that. Or if not , Uk and EU customs would designate NI ports as regional and not international, so all traffic there from outside the uk or eu would be banned and would be redirected to Liverpool or similar where proper customs faciliates would exist. .. entry into UK followed by export and entry in EU .
All these arrangements are messy and less efficient than the current ones , but hey you voted for Brexit, now live with it!.

I didnt vote for Brexit,but I am living with it....at the moment the currency situation is good for UK traders but these things may change.
I cant see the DUP being happy if the status of Belfast is downgraded and what a mess and additional costs to import via Liverpool.
Sorry your suggestions are non starters...if we leave without a customs union then the EU will insist on a border,they will demand it and you will agree to it.
Do you think Cameron had any idea of the far reaching complexity of Brexit,the border was never mentioned before the referendum.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Do you think Cameron had any idea of the far reaching complexity of Brexit

I doubt he even gave it a thought, such was his complacent belief that the vote would be to Remain.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

the border was never mentioned before the referendum.
KudosDave

I was discussed by many people. I think the phrase was "project fear"

This from May 2016.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-and-irish-border/

 

[Kudoscycles]

Corbyn is getting his timing right,he has the measure of Theresa May and has not ducked the issue of which way he would vote in another referendum,he stated yesterday in PMQ's that he voted remain and would vote remain again.
Looks like Theresa May got on the wrong horse and has ridden it until it is knackered,too late now Mrs May!!!!
Having said that I dont fancy a Labour government,but that does look like where we are headed.
Wonder what May's next disaster will be?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

I was discussed by many people. I think the phrase was "project fear"

This from May 2016.

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-referendum-and-irish-border/

Maybe it was written on the other side of the big red bus.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

I didnt vote for Brexit,but I am living with it....at the moment the currency situation is good for UK traders but these things may change.
I cant see the DUP being happy if the status of Belfast is downgraded and what a mess and additional costs to import via Liverpool.
Sorry your suggestions are non starters...if we leave without a customs union then the EU will insist on a border,they will demand it and you will agree to it.
Do you think Cameron had any idea of the far reaching complexity of Brexit,the border was never mentioned before the referendum.
KudosDave

It was well understood on this side of the water. Why do you think the NI vote was 56% remain?.. even in the face of illegally sourced pro Brexit funding, and a strong DUP showing.

 

[flecc]

Wonder what May's next disaster will be?
KudosDave

Since we now have a custom of asking the public's advice on matters they don't understand, perhaps she'll have a referendum on what sort of Irish border the people would like.

Since the people of the ROI wouldn't be able to vote in it, out of fairness and a need for balance and impartiality, she might exclude the people of Northern Ireland as well.

I'm sure the DUP would understand.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Since we now have a custom of asking the public's advice on matters they don't understand, perhaps she'll have a referendum on what sort of Irish border the people would like.

Since the people of the ROI wouldn't be able to vote in it, out of fairness and a need for balance and impartiality, she might exclude the people of Northern Ireland as well.

I'm sure the DUP would understand.
.

Well there is history there....Cameron didnt let the expats in Spain,France and Italy have a vote in the referendum,the very people most affected by the decision.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

I didnt vote for Brexit,but I am living with it....at the moment the currency situation is good for UK traders but these things may change.
I cant see the DUP being happy if the status of Belfast is downgraded and what a mess and additional costs to import via Liverpool.
Sorry your suggestions are non starters...if we leave without a customs union then the EU will insist on a border,they will demand it and you will agree to it.
Do you think Cameron had any idea of the far reaching complexity of Brexit,the border was never mentioned before the referendum.
KudosDave

If the UK leaves without an agreed customs structure, yes we will have a land border on the island. I flagged that up in one of my very early posts. I realised it on the day after the referendum. We know that, but we are not going to facilitate it.
The problems of a UK outside the EU, without the supports of the eu, without financial passporting, without ryanair, , with miles and miles of lorries at ports , without free movement of fresh food, from Ireland, France, Denmark, Netherlands, are going to pose such problems that a container of ebikes will be chickenfeed..
.. Duck, mushrooms, baileys Irish liquor, lettuce, fresh milk, spanish tomatoes all off the menu. It will need the Dunkirk spirit all over again.
The supply chains for these goods are so intricate, that they take years to re-establish once severed.
This is what your friends in Europe have been trying to tell you....
The irony is that this is being faciliated by the DUP, whose province voted against it and those economy will in all likelihood be the worst affected of the UK regions.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I really hope the border moves from Calais to Dover as well...