Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Meanwhile, in Italy where they seem to be able to ignore any inconvenient law...............................

There are two sensible ways to administer law:

1) The German model, making the laws fit the needs of the population with their interests at heart, then expecting full compliance at all times.

2) The Italian model, accept all the laws but not necessarily expect compliance, only punishing when a personal choice to break the law goes wrong. That only punishes those whose law breaking actually did harm, rather than everyone who breaks a law without harm to anyone.

The UK uses the worst elements of both, full application without suitability and expecting full compliance.
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[Zlatan]

There was never a restriction on the UK having any specific speed limits on bikes imposed by EU. Can you not see that that is the exact problem you have in NI

Where did the 15.5 mph limit come from ? Or for that matter the 11kw learner limit ??? Sounds more EU than UK ???

 

[Danidl]

or in your particular case represented by that highly respectable parliamentarian Gerry `the IRA Commander` Adams

at least our Unionist MEP muppets, Nicholson and Dodds have a certain self-respect and decency, although they can`t direct terrorism or strip and rebuild an AK47 in 60 seconds.

You`ve been really lucky down there in Louth to harness such talent.

.. when I used the term Muppets, I was not actually referring to the NI representatives, but the mainland UK reps. I will agree that the NI reps have as you say a certain decency. I might be wrong, but I never recall Mr Adams as having been a candidate for an ROI MEP constituency. As you may gather, I am in the Leinster constituency, and I doubt whether he would have chanced it,

 

[Zlatan]

One of the issues here is that until we joined the EU, we had very few laws, commonsense used to prevail. One example being the situation when it snows, or we have ice on the pavements.It was always accepted that you should be careful and walk/act accordingly. Now, it is always someone else's fault, be that the Council or the householder. And, on it goes, always someone else's responsibility, never your own. How much time do you think this wastes and how many pockets does it line?

To be fair Flecc I must say that attitude has come from other side of pond...One of things I did like about living in Spain/ France was the lack of " where there is blame there,s a claim"...
But I must also add there are places in Frrnch/ Spanish villages that would attract at least warning signs and or barriers to keep kids safer. My own house had only a 2feet 6 inch tall comunal wall infront of it with a 40 ft drop other side..It would get an extender fence in UK...not in France...
But every swimming pool has to be secure so kids cant get in...??? What does and doesn't attract H&S issues in France/ Spain is actually odd. ( We always laugh at the public defib unit on mentioned wall, for when folk have fallen over it perhaps)

 

[flecc]

There was never a restriction on the UK having any specific speed limits on bikes imposed by EU. Can you not see that that is the exact problem you have in NI

I don't understand your response, the EU imposes a 25 kph (15.5mph) assist speed limit on pedelecs, and that would also have applied in N.I. if the assembly had been sitting at the time the EU imposed that.

In fact it does apply there now in law, it's just being ignored and not being enforced since there is no enforcement mechanism at present.
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[oldtom]

Its not just yobs in Spain, France and Greece...its the entire nations.

The thoughts of a racist!

Tom

 

[flecc]

One of the issues here is that until we joined the EU, we had very few laws, commonsense used to prevail.

How I wish that had been true. It was actually said in 1973 that more laws had been passed in Britain between 1945 and 1973 than all of previous British history. We didn't need to learn that from the equally prolific EU.

But I fully agree with you about their unnecessary scope.
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[Danidl]

Where did the 15.5 mph limit come from ? Or for that matter the 11kw learner limit ??? Sounds more EU than UK ???

The technical standards groups within the EU make suggestions, the parliament and commission make decisions , depending on the nature of the change it may be advisory or compulsory... Compulsory where a state has agree to implement it. These technical standards are for every thing from cement, to sunglasses to medicines etc..

 

[Zlatan]

The thoughts of a racist!

Tom

No, it is not you fool. I was making point they ignore the rules we adhere to. I was not making point they are yobs, far from it. I actually posted later saying we should be more like it.( as did Flecc who also posted he ignores irrelevant laws)

 

[Zlatan]

The technical standards groups within the EU make suggestions, the parliament and commission make decisions , depending on the nature of the change it may be advisory or compulsory... Compulsory where a state has agree to implement it. These technical standards are for every thing from cement, to sunglasses to medicines etc..

I,m lost now Danid, you said EU had not imposed 15 5 mph ( 25 kph) limit on pedelecs, hence my question.
We used to enforce a 12bhp limit on learner riders. EU made that 11kw which is as near as dam it 15bhp( 14.7 BHP) it was an EU figure..as I thought the pedelec figure had been . ( or is)

 

[Steb]

It is a crying shame. So who do you think has made these EU guys feel that they are not wanted. I would suggest that it won't be the odd yob, that may or may not have voted Brexit, rather, it will be the remoaners who have continually spouted doom and gloom awaits us and indeed anyone else who cares to stay.

Reese mog has voted against allowing eu migrants to stay, as has patel and other brexiters. It find the editing out of the xenophobia out of the brexit campaign - and I don't only mean you I mean generally - quite disturbing. Not because I'm a migrant, but because it conjures images of Orwell' newspeak, fake news feels a dangerous step towards an indoctrinated society

 

[flecc]

Where did the 15.5 mph limit come from ?

We initiated the pedelec assist speed limits with it set at 12 mph back in the 1970s. The EU later followed Japanese law with 25 kph (15.5 mph).

We then harmonised by upping ours grudgingly to 15 mph in 1983, and finally conceded the extra bit to 15.5 mph in 2015.

In this it's the UK which has always been the more restrictive. Just re-read what I said about having weight limits and a lower age limit that no-one else has had. And our point blank refusal to have the speed pedelec class.
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[flecc]

We used to enforce a 12bhp limit on learner riders. EU made that 11kw which is as near as dam it 15bhp( 14.7 BHP)

Once again illustrating how much more lenient the EU is with regulation, just as with e-bikes. It's the UK which is intolerant.
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[Zlatan]

Once again illustrating how much more lenient the EU is with regulation, just as with e-bikes. It's the UK which is intolerant.
.

So it seems...in many ways..( no criticism of you in that Flecc)

 

[Danidl]

To be fair Flecc I must say that attitude has come from other side of pond...One of things I did like about living in Spain/ France was the lack of " where there is blame there,s a claim"...
But I must also add there are places in Frrnch/ Spanish villages that would attract at least warning signs and or barriers to keep kids safer. My own house had only a 2feet 6 inch tall comunal wall infront of it with a 40 ft drop other side..It would get an extender fence in UK...not in France...
But every swimming pool has to be secure so kids cant get in...??? What does and doesn't attract H&S issues in France/ Spain is actually odd. ( We always laugh at the public defib unit on mentioned wall, for when folk have fallen over it perhaps)

.. I can agree with the difference in public safety differences between the UK and Ireland and Spain... The number of deep drops without barriers on public steps, castle walls, parapets, frightens me. I see young children walking on these areas and my heart is in my mouth.. The fact that our neighbors in France have a 50 year old disabled son, contracted in a window fall as an infant just makes it more urgent to me.. It seems that architectural purity is more important than safety
But I have noticed a change in recent years.. there is a realisation that alcohol is not a good thing, . That private pools need to be screened from the road, and protected from child ingress are also examples. That smoking might be discouraged...

 

[Zlatan]

Reese mog has voted against allowing eu migrants to stay, as has patel and other brexiters. It find the editing out of the xenophobia out of the brexit campaign - and I don't only mean you I mean generally - quite disturbing. Not because I'm a migrant, but because it conjures images of Orwell' newspeak, fake news feels a dangerous step towards an indoctrinated society

You dont think the xenophobic, racist, fear card has been played by many remainers to discredit all leavers ???

 

[Zlatan]

.. I can agree with the difference in public safety differences between the UK and Ireland and Spain... The number of deep drops without barriers on public steps, castle walls, parapets, frightens me. I see young children walking on these areas and my heart is in my mouth.. The fact that our neighbors in France have a 50 year old disabled son, contracted in a window fall as an infant just makes it more urgent to me.. It seems that architectural purity is more important than safety
But I have noticed a change in recent years.. there is a realisation that alcohol is not a good thing, . That private pools need to be screened from the road, and protected from child ingress are also examples. That smoking might be discouraged...

To be fair it really shocked me how accepting of smoking laws both the Spanish and French bars were.
One English chap asked French bar keeper where smoking shelter was,it was raining, The bar tender produced an umbrella from behind the bar and handed it over...

 

[flecc]

The number of deep drops without barriers on public steps, castle walls, parapets, frightens me. I see young children walking on these areas and my heart is in my mouth..

But where does this stop and it is even realistic to remove all such risks?

Children who have avoided such mishaps have been killed later by collapsing walls and falling signs where no apparent risk even existed. Some later manage to achieve final oblivion with drink, drugs or dangerous driving.

People vary in personal risk management. Some like me keep very safe, while some are very accident prone, and the latter throughout life will always find a way to hurt themselves.

Should we really spend vast sums and destroy our environment to safeguard a small minority who all too often could take better care of themselves. I think not, the survival of the fittest has a just place in any society.
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[oldgroaner]

OK that's fine, now shut up and let them get on with it.

very amusing

 

[oldgroaner]

One of the issues here is that until we joined the EU, we had very few laws, commonsense used to prevail. One example being the situation when it snows, or we have ice on the pavements.It was always accepted that you should be careful and walk/act accordingly. Now, it is always someone else's fault, be that the Council or the householder. And, on it goes, always someone else's responsibility, never your own. How much time do you think this wastes and how many pockets does it line?

And on the first day at work I was taken on a tour of the factory and spotted ten stretchers outside the Foundry.
"Are those in case of accidents?" I asked my guide.
He laughed, "No when the men pass out from the heat we drag em outside put em on a stretched and chuck a bucket of water over them
When they come round they come back in, and get back to work, because they are on Peace Work, no work, no pay."
We sat on piles of Asbestos which was used in Boiler making, the Men who died as a result were put down as due to inhaling airborne sand and smoke.
Try and kid someone else with foolish wish to go back to a past where everyone was taking unnecessary risks.
Health and Safety has saved many lives even if it costs greedy Employers money out of their pockets.
Your Tory propaganda is just that, and dangerous nonsense.
And you last comment sums up the true Conservative attitude
You don't want to pay for the safety of others, do you?