Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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So, tell us how would you describe yourself at this stage in your life? Cheerful perhaps... unlikely of course and whilst I appreciate that you don't like a drink, surely you don't expect us to think that this is normal conversation, not even for you.
Cheerful? no, simply coping as best I may, as my wife has been diagnosed with Altzheimers.
Nevertheless I am capable of rational thought and concern for the fate of others.
 
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PeterL

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And that is entirely my point: providing for everyones needs has proved beyond the capability of all recent governments, and not only that they have no commitments to change things for the better, with the added handicap of dealing with a situation created by Brexit where they have no plans, no talent, no resources, and no intention of making a success economically or socially, merely hoping to do damage limitation, and prolong the poor state of the people at the bottom of society that the Brexit Voters wanted changed for the better.

It's not good enough to tell them not to be jealous of those who have the good things in life, as they see those people getting richer and themselves getting poorer.
If Brexit doesn't deliver the better times to them and quickly, all hell will break out.
If Brexit doesn't deliver... I really do think that it offers us our best chance as outlined earlier in the day. I also believe that TM, for all her faults, meant and said, the right things when she took office. The Tories really do understand compassion and want the best for all our peoples and will deliver.

Others choose to dumb down in the misguided belief that the lowering of standards will bring about equality. It even amuses me to read what I have just written.
 

PeterL

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Cheerful? no, simply coping as best I may, as my wife has been diagnosed with Altzheimers.
Nevertheless I am capable of rational thought and concern for the fate of others.
I sympathise and I am obviously lucky in that sense but, life is not all bad.
 

oldgroaner

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If Brexit doesn't deliver... I really do think that it offers us our best chance as outlined earlier in the day. I also believe that TM, for all her faults, meant and said, the right things when she took office. The Tories really do understand compassion and want the best for all our peoples and will deliver.

Others choose to dumb down in the misguided belief that the lowering of standards will bring about equality. It even amuses me to read what I have just written.
I suspect you speak in jest! Tories and Compassion are like Attila the Hun and Diplomacy, in fact they may have derived inspiration from him.
Are you including "Strong and Stable" among those right things she said?
What happened there?
And as to the notion they will "Deliver" who did you have in mind they would be delivering to, and what?
 
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PeterL

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OG I wonder if you were switched on the C4 this evening? The Northern Powerhouse. For me it was uncomfortable watching but it is things like this that I find important and in themselves life-changing. I hold little, if any, time for the do-goers in this world who think that propping up the poor is a solution. Handouts, whatever they are, do precious little other than waste precious resources. We need to concentrate on outcomes, not inputs: more money for the NHS will rarely equate to better services for the patients and so on. Socialism will never work, it might sound good. but work, never in a million years. Anyway back to the Northern Powerhouse. It would seem that the project is being watered down - better not be! To bring about real meaningful change you empower the people to be able to succeed - you don't give them the money for another pint of beer. That's a metaphor by the way for the Seb's of this world - bit like Jesus and the fishes! Or better still teach the man to fish...
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
This seems like an opportune moment to remind ourselves what tories are all about:

22814389_907191722773082_1057524096116623782_n.jpg And this was tory electioneering material just over half a century ago - nothing has really changed in that regard!

22729204_1898718373778034_8960389295500225075_n.jpg

This is pertinent as it describes my attitude to those less fortunate, something alien to tories:

1390677_224496247713893_1902865913_n.jpg

Although I'm not religious, I do believe that those who mistreat other human beings in any way need to be opposed. That means my humanity dictates I must be socialist and stand against the evil-doers in society just as this passage from the Christian bible describes:

'Cynicism says, “I’ll believe it when I see it.” Faith says, “You’ll see it when you believe it.” In Obadiah, verse 11 (the book only has one chapter), we read that the prophet said that when evil takes place, we have to be involved. We have to take a stand.'

Tom
 
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tommie

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This seems like an opportune moment to remind ourselves what tories are all about:

View attachment 21933 And this was tory electioneering material just over half a century ago - nothing has really changed in that regard!

View attachment 21934

This is pertinent as it describes my attitude to those less fortunate, something alien to tories:

View attachment 21935

Although I'm not religious, I do believe that those who mistreat other human beings in any way need to be opposed. That means my humanity dictates I must be socialist and stand against the evil-doers in society just as this passage from the Christian bible describes:

'Cynicism says, “I’ll believe it when I see it.” Faith says, “You’ll see it when you believe it.” In Obadiah, verse 11 (the book only has one chapter), we read that the prophet said that when evil takes place, we have to be involved. We have to take a stand.'

Tom


DNVOMaVWkAAQUN_.jpg
 

oldgroaner

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Handouts, whatever they are, do precious little other than waste precious resources.
Yet huge ones were given to the Banks

"Socialism will never work, it might sound good. but work, never in a million years"

Really? the the post war recovery of the Attlee Government never happened!

Sorry but only Socialism offers a realistic future world wide, and Democracy itself is under dire threat from Corporate Power, which OWNS the Conservative Party and directs it's actions.
 
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oldgroaner

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It could be called 'Tough Love' OG but sincerely, it is love and better still - hope.
Strange that none of their so called helpful schemes have done anything more that increase the suffering of the poor, and made many more of the people who are employed living on the read line.
What sort of Society has Food Banks?
Disgraceful.
Tough love? Exploitation is the word and much worse to come after Brexit.
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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What sort of Society has Food Banks?
a better, more compassionate society.
Before food banks, those who use them would have to go hungry.
You have to deal with the roots of poverty. Inherited wealth, disability, education, racism, job opportunity...
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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a better, more compassionate society.
Before food banks, those who use them would have to go hungry.
You have to deal with the roots of poverty. Inherited wealth, disability, education, racism, job opportunity...
There is something intrinsically wrong though Woosh in a society that pays some of its members £100k a day plus)( Eg Adele) and yet other cant afford to eat.
The world has to.operate on Capitalism ( IMHO) but we must develop a fairer model of it. I do not think either extremes of our current political spectrum ( or the EU) has the solution, but we must recognise there is a problem in wealth distribution , and then tackle that problem, without throwing spanners into the works of capitalism. As to how, I haven't a clue, but its a ridiculous situation when nurses are paid less than actors pretending to be them. ( and by a massive margin)
At the moment there are massive rewards available for those willing to go a different route. It seems society does not reward straight forward hard work and diligence. I had 30 years in education and yet earnt as much money in the next ten ( probably more) running my own business. The work was easier, shorter hours, less stress, nicer environment but less beneficial to society. You cant blame people for doing that, we applaud people for their enterprise. But it is wrong .
 
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PeterL

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Aug 19, 2017
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Dundee
There is something intrinsically wrong though Woosh in a society that pays some of its members £100k a day plus)( Eg Adele) and yet other cant afford to eat.
The world has to.operate on Capitalism ( IMHO) but we must develop a fairer model of it. I do not think either extremes of our current political spectrum ( or the EU) has the solution, but we must recognise there is a problem in wealth distribution , and then tackle that problem, without throwing spanners into the works of capitalism. As to how, I haven't a clue, but its a ridiculous situation when nurses are paid less than actors pretending to be them. ( and by a massive margin)
At the moment there are massive rewards available for those willing to go a different route. It seems society does not reward straight forward hard work and diligence. I had 30 years in education and yet earnt as much money in the next ten ( probably more) running my own business. The work was easier, shorter hours, less stress, nicer environment but less beneficial to society. You cant blame people for doing that, we applaud people for their enterprise. But it is wrong .
Well done, essentially my sentiments.
 
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PeterL

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Aug 19, 2017
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Dundee
Strange that none of their so called helpful schemes have done anything more that increase the suffering of the poor, and made many more of the people who are employed living on the read line.
What sort of Society has Food Banks?
Disgraceful.
Tough love? Exploitation is the word and much worse to come after Brexit.
Do you, or anyone else, have reliable, comparable figures for the level of poverty in this country. It's not good for anyone to be deprived (more accurate than poor I feel) but... what's your solution then? Explain please. Before you do that a definition of poor wouldn't go amiss either.
 

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