Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

the direction of brexit is left to the EU at the moment because we cannot spell out what we want in any level of details.
The EU is likely to suggest CETA as their preferred model. That'll keep their goods flowing into the UK free of duty and entice our banks and insurance companies to move to the Eurozone.

 

[oldtom]

The Irish Times, in the link at the bottom, reports news which clearly demonstrates that some in Ireland have been influenced by the comments expressed in this thread by the pro-remain cognoscenti.

'flecc' must be in line for an OBE or better for creating this thread from which so many have learned so much from so few.........(just checking I got that in the right order - yep!). The British parliamentarians would do well to read this material here in 'Pedelecs' as Hansard has nowhere near as much good, solid information.

Sadly, the misgoverning shower are too embroiled in their own cover-up of atypical tory misbehaviour that May & Co probably won't have time to read this and learn anything.



brexit-talks-led-by-clowns-and-fools-cbi-lunch-hears-1172486

Tom

 

[PeterL]

The UK has basically 3 choices.
1. Negotiate a deal they can believe is a good deal
2. Walk away with no deal
3. Seek to negate Brexit and have business as usual.

Of those options, I have been consistent in hoping for 3.
Except for Ireland, Denmark, the Nederlands, loss of British trade is an unwelcome but minor inconvenience. For the three countries mentioned, but particularly Ireland, loss of UK trade and markets is a big deal. It is particularly important to us as much of the distribution channels.. the large importers exporters are closely linked.... Even Guinness is controlled from Park Lane, not Dublin.
You may not wish to think so but Brexit is not big in the thinking of middle Europe. So while there might be chagrin and lack of Christmas bonuses for Audi sales managers, it will just mean that the Swedes will get their models a little earlier. Those in England who lust after their latest Audi , will end up buying say an A4 and not the A6 they had promised themselves.

Not that bad a scenario really: to forgo my Audi A8 for an A4 or just maybe an A6 (second-hand I might add). I'm a little more hopeful than that and feel fairly confident that we will end up with a reasonable trade deal and good relations with our EU neighbours. Not so sure that our trade, with the EU, can be dismissed as of little importance to middle Europe albeit the shenanigans in Spain will have distracted more than a few I'm sure. Lots of doom and gloom at the moment, especially in retail, but, that needs a real shake-up, as in my opinion. it has only been held in place over the past ten years or so by cheap imports from the far east. It was only ever a matter of time before rebalancing came into play - why not now and blame Brexit?

 

[oldgroaner]

Not that bad a scenario really: to forgo my Audi A8 for an A4 or just maybe an A6 (second-hand I might add). I'm a little more hopeful than that and feel fairly confident that we will end up with a reasonable trade deal and good relations with our EU neighbours. Not so sure that our trade, with the EU, can be dismissed as of little importance to middle Europe albeit the shenanigans in Spain will have distracted more than a few I'm sure. Lots of doom and gloom at the moment, especially in retail, but, that needs a real shake-up, as in my opinion. it has only been held in place over the past ten years or so by cheap imports from the far east. It was only ever a matter of time before rebalancing came into play - why not now and blame Brexit?

OK. lets assume things jog along as you describe.
Why did we bother with Brexit when we already had a better deal?
Where is the bright new tomorrow the rank and File Brexit voters are expecting?
That's the real problem . I have never doubted somehow the old country would trudge along after Brexit.

That really is the issue, and the answer is that what will be achieved is far, far below the expectation of the Public.

All we can look forward to is a declining economic situation, which is for many acceptable, but against that distress and trouble from the lower orders of society.

Brexit is simply dangerous, and completely unjustifiable.
For some reason Brexit supporters utterly reject and avoid facing up to the social consequences of their actions on others, and that these "others" may react badly.
Why the Blinkers? it's as obvious as night follows day that there is trouble ahead.

 

[PeterL]

OK. lets assume things jog along as you describe.
Why did we bother with Brexit when we already had a better deal?
Where is the bright new tomorrow the rank and File Brexit voters are expecting?
That's the real problem . I have never doubted somehow the old country would trudge along after Brexit.

That really is the issue, and the answer is that what will be achieved is far, far below the expectation of the Public.

All we can look forward to is a declining economic situation, which is for many acceptable, but against that distress and trouble from the lower orders of society.

Brexit is simply dangerous, and completely unjustifiable.
For some reason Brexit supporters utterly reject and avoid facing up to the social consequences of their actions on others, and that these "others" may react badly.
Why the Blinkers? it's as obvious as night follows day that there is trouble ahead.

You may be right and we end up just jogging along. However, that will certainly be the case as a member of the EU which has a long way to go before it arrives at its utopian vision/destination, if it ever does so. Even worse, I believe, is that it is not the direction that we should take. Simply because it will shackle us to the overriding vision of a USE which will not be in our best interests at all. From what we are currently seeing, not in the best interests of many others either. We will never stop the demand for self-determination, or at least not by force and the EU by its very nature is a heavy top down organisation which even by our standards is just about as remote as you can get from the people it represents. It would seem to suit many in mainland Europe, indeed Churchill said a s much but he also said, not for us. We’ll muddle on, be able to react to the situations we find ourselves in, able to take advantage when it suits and not be held back. Good for the World, the EU and ourselves.

 

[flecc]

'flecc' must be in line for an OBE or better for creating this thread from which so many have learned so much from so few........

Oddly enough Tom, I have just been nominated for a civic award for services to the community, but this thread isn't one of those.

It won't happen though, I would always refuse any such award, gong etc.
.

 

[PeterL]

Oddly enough Tom, I have just been nominated for a civic award for services to the community, but this thread isn't one of those.

It wan't happen though, I would always refuse any such award, gong etc.
.

Perhaps you would change your mind if Tom were to nominate you? Seriously, such awards are as much about the people you help as yourself.

 

[Zlatan]

Not that bad a scenario really: to forgo my Audi A8 for an A4 or just maybe an A6 (second-hand I might add). I'm a little more hopeful than that and feel fairly confident that we will end up with a reasonable trade deal and good relations with our EU neighbours. Not so sure that our trade, with the EU, can be dismissed as of little importance to middle Europe albeit the shenanigans in Spain will have distracted more than a few I'm sure. Lots of doom and gloom at the moment, especially in retail, but, that needs a real shake-up, as in my opinion. it has only been held in place over the past ten years or so by cheap imports from the far east. It was only ever a matter of time before rebalancing came into play - why not now and blame Brexit?

Just get a Jag XF Peter.

 

[PeterL]

Just get a Jag XF Peter.

Just need to convince the driver in the back-seat. XJ perhaps?

 

[oldgroaner]

You may be right and we end up just jogging along. However, that will certainly be the case as a member of the EU which has a long way to go before it arrives at its utopian vision/destination, if it ever does so. Even worse, I believe, is that it is not the direction that we should take. Simply because it will shackle us to the overriding vision of a USE which will not be in our best interests at all. From what we are currently seeing, not in the best interests of many others either. We will never stop the demand for self-determination, or at least not by force and the EU by its very nature is a heavy top down organisation which even by our standards is just about as remote as you can get from the people it represents. It would seem to suit many in mainland Europe, indeed Churchill said a s much but he also said, not for us. We’ll muddle on, be able to react to the situations we find ourselves in, able to take advantage when it suits and not be held back. Good for the World, the EU and ourselves.

First I disagree that being part of a united states of Europe would be a bad thing, allowing that to form without our influence however is an act of crass stupidity.
Brexit wasn't an act of acclaiming how well the country was being run, it was a protest.
That protest will only grow and fester as the promises already broken are compounded by the incompetence of our government.
You are living in a dream world detached from reality of you think this shambolic situation will turn out for the best.
There is no way that it can. The public will react badly when things get worse, and their rights are trampled on.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[PeterL]

First I disagree that being part of a united states of Europe would be a bad thing, allowing that to form without our influence however is an act of crass stupidity.
Brexit wasn't an act of acclaiming how well the country was being run, it was a protest.
That protest will only grow and fester as the promises already broken are compounded by the incompetence of our government.
You are living in a dream world detached from reality of you think this shambolic situation will turn out for the best.
There is no way that it can. The public will react badly when things get worse, and their rights are trampled on.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

So you keep saying, but that doesn't make it either right or even correct. No doubt for some it was a protest about any of a number of different things. However, to then move it on to become a prophecy that it will bring about civil unrest is just so negative as to be sad if not worse. Get a grip of yourself man!

 

[oldtom]

Oddly enough Tom, I have just been nominated for a civic award for services to the community, but this thread isn't one of those.

It won't happen though, I would always refuse any such award, gong etc.
.

I'm delighted to hear of your nomination 'flecc' and I'm sure it is well-merited. Like you 'flecc', were such an accolade ever to come my way, I too would politely refuse for the same reasons as expressed by the late Bob Hoskins in this infographic about his feelings towards Tony B-liar, a sentiment I share.



Tom

 

[flecc]

Perhaps you would change your mind if Tom were to nominate you? Seriously, such awards are as much about the people you help as yourself.

All such awards are a nonsense. We do what we do because we want to do it, not because we are good.
.

 

[PeterL]

All such awards are a nonsense. We do what we do because we want to do it, not because we are good.
.

Again, no one suggested you were good, or at least not me. It's what was done that is good and 'good' should be recognised - that's the way some of us see things... won't even bother to expand on that.

 

[Woosh]

All such awards are a nonsense. We do what we do because we want to do it, not because we are good.
.

not for those who want to see you recognised.

 

[flecc]

It's what was done that is good and 'good' should be recognised

It already is recognised, by those who benefit from what was done.

Awards recognise the individual, not the work done, so are unnecessary and inappropriate on the grounds I've given,

People are given awards, gongs, titles etc for the good things they've done, then there's often calls to remove the honour when something adverse comes to light. That alone exposes what is wrong with recognising the individual in addition to the appreciation of the good done that already happens without awards. All people are both good and bad in varying degrees.
.

 

[flecc]

not for those who want to see you recognised.

They are mistaken as my posts explain.
.

 

[PeterL]

It already is recognised, by those who benefit from what was done.

Awards recognise the individual, not the work done, so are unnecessary and inappropriate on the grounds I've given,

People are given awards, gongs, titles etc for the good things they've done, then there's often calls to remove the honour when something adverse comes to light. That alone exposes what is wrong with recognising the individual in addition to the appreciation of the good done that already happens without awards. All people are both good and bad in varying degrees.
.

vive la difference

 

[Steb]

Not that bad a scenario really: to forgo my Audi A8 for an A4 or just maybe an A6 (second-hand I might add). I'm a little more hopeful than that and feel fairly confident that we will end up with a reasonable trade deal and good relations with our EU neighbours. Not so sure that our trade, with the EU, can be dismissed as of little importance to middle Europe albeit the shenanigans in Spain will have distracted more than a few I'm sure. Lots of doom and gloom at the moment, especially in retail, but, that needs a real shake-up, as in my opinion. it has only been held in place over the past ten years or so by cheap imports from the far east. It was only ever a matter of time before rebalancing came into play - why not now and blame Brexit?

You're priorities are just a little inverted. The retail sector you casually want to shake up through a serious self inflicted recession via brexit provide work, livelihood for many on lower income. Whether you can afford an a8 or an a6 is irrelevant, in the context of the economy, public's, nation's livelihood, taxes, social, health care (although I can't help wondering whether you and Zlatan are actually adolescent fantasists once the narrative about cars and published novels get going)

 

[PeterL]

You're priorities are just a little inverted. The retail sector you casually want to shake up through a serious self inflicted recession via brexit provide work, livelihood for many on lower income. Whether you can afford an a8 or an a6 is irrelevant, in the context of the economy, public's, nation's livelihood, taxes, social, health care (although I can't help wondering whether you and Zlatan are actually adolescent fantasists once the narrative about cars and published novels get going)

If it really was funny, that's fine by me. Came across as a tad crass to me and not particularly well written