Of course they will, it`s a case of fall into line or risk an Election.
Welsh and Scottish turkeys won`t vote for Christmas.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Welsh and Scottish turkeys won`t vote for Christmas.
in one sense this is good: watching Theresa may try to deliver on brexit is like watching a train crash in ultra slow motion. the longer she stays in charge and the longer cognitive dissonance stop the part of the electorate who voted for it from acknowledging their error the bigger the damage, in one sense, to the Tories.
But labour are saying exactly the same. Corbyn is probably more anti EU than May.. Yes, we are in a mess but can you imagine what a bigger mess we,d be in with Father Christmas Corbyn getting in by giving presents to everybody he,s borrowed money to buy..and then Diane Abot advising us all !!!
Agree with Tories or not, agree with Brexit or not remainers have got to come up with an achievable realistic alternative. OG says cancel Brexit..well who the hell out of all our politicians and parties is going to
A) Get in
B) Do that when they do so.
Vince cable ?? He,s never going to achieve a)
Corbyn will never do b)
So stop blaming tories. Get some party to represent your views , vote then in...and hey presto. That's why its called democracy.
Or perhaps you agree with Tom and his desire for armed conflict...not sure who against and who for but I,m sure between Steb,OG and Tom you could justify shooting somebody..
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What's called democracy? what we have here is Party Politics !
Gandhi was once asked "What do you think of British Democracy?"
His answer and indeed mine are the same
He said "I think it would be a good idea, they ought to try it!"
As to stop blaming the Tories, who the hell else got us into this mess?
Father Christmas?
Even for you this last post was silly and to be fair, you are simply spouting anti Corbyn porpaganda as if it is factual.
It isn't it is simply someone elses opinion as misguided as yours.
You and others like you voted for this mess, so you are the ones to sort it out, aren't you? Campaign for Brexit to be cancelled.
Nothing to do with me and those who voted to remain at all.
question for you, OG.
do you think Corbyn is brave enough to negotiate a soft brexit if he was PM right now?
OG
We,ve
We,ve had a GE since referendum. Your views were not represented by either major party. Had labour won ( which they didn't btw) we would still be leaving.
The rest of your argument is smoke and mirrors?
Why is it the tories fault your views were not represented in the GE ? Why is it Brexit voters fault remainers have no one likely to get into no 10 ?
Your venom is misdirected. You should be asking the question
" Why are the views of so many ( remainers) neither being represented or anyone endorsing them ever likely to achieve power"
You can not blame Brexit voters or right wing press for Corbyn's stance ( or labours)
Fact is its easier to knock Brexit voters and tories yhhan actually fo something positive.( ie canvass labour)
You cant blame tories for colour of their spots...they have not changed. Get Corbyn / Blair/ Cable/ Clegg in power....
Like I said its just easier to simply moan, insult, patronise etc etc..actually the wrong group.
Why is Corbyn anti EU ? I,d start there..
We,ve
OG
We,ve had a GE since referendum. Your views were not represented by either major party. Had labour won ( which they didn't btw) we would still be leaving.
The rest of your argument is smoke and mirrors?
Why is it the tories fault your views were not represented in the GE ? Why is it Brexit voters fault remainers have no one likely to get into no 10 ?
Your venom is misdirected. You should be asking the question
" Why are the views of so many ( remainers) neither being represented or anyone endorsing them ever likely to achieve power"
You can not blame Brexit voters or right wing press for Corbyn's stance ( or labours)
Fact is its easier to knock Brexit voters and tories yhhan actually fo something positive.( ie canvass labour)
You cant blame tories for colour of their spots...they have not changed. Get Corbyn / Blair/ Cable/ Clegg in power....
Like I said its just easier to simply moan, insult, patronise etc etc..actually the wrong group.
Why is Corbyn anti EU ? I,d start there..
Yes they are to blame. The Tories for arranging a referendum on a parliamentary matter, the Brexit voters for using that to get us into this mess, the right wing press for encouraging that.
And the Brexit voters are to blame for Corbyn's stance, since they include such a large proportion of the Labour electorate he isn't free to be pro EU without losing much of his electoral support.
.
So lets get this right flecc. Corbyn is anti EU because he thinks the majority of voters are also anti EU ?? But he will never know. His argument becomes self fullfilling. Nobody can vote against exiting eu because that policy isn't put forward, so voters have no choice but support leaving...but in your opinion its their fault for doing so ?? Joseph Heller would be proud of that plot.
.. oh there is the mob going by, I must hurry, for , I am their leader.
Vince did that remember. the Westminster system has very little to do with actual representation. your'e also ignoring significant (unhelpful, self focussed and destabilising but that's not Europe's fault) changes UK has made to the EU development over the years. it could have gone on to make more meaningful changes. it does sound as if you're hoping remainers will come up with the liberal equivalent of boris or gove, vacuous and seductively simplistic. there isn't as simplistic and obsessively self interested/centred arguments for the EU or greater interdependence, to grasp that one has to think, not wait for the next convincing liar to come along and promise even more xenophobic goodies.
Lets be specific: Corbyn is not in my estimation going in the right direction, he takes too parochial a view of trying to make Brexit Work.
It is too late to make a "Workers Paradise" out of a Nation with so few assets and advantages going for it.
Simply pipedreams
I don't expect Brexit to work, a snowflake in Hell has a better chance of survival.
I want it to become an example of the results of making a rash decision so obvious that the people reject it, and for it to be reversed before too much damage is done.
It is so far away from being of any long term advantage to the nation that creating a parody of a modern state run by any of the present parties outside the EU is simply throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Frankly simply trying to make Brexit "Work" is a failure to take the country in a wise direction.
Most of your post isn't worth responding to, but I will add this.
Both parties discredited themselves bowing to "the will of the people" so called and accepting brexit.
There is no point in canvassing any of them as they will not respond.
Corbyn discredited himself by appearing to offer false hope to Labour supporters
Brexit is just that: FALSE HOPE
No salvation is coming from Westminster is it?
Only events that upset the public if they occur, and they may take years to do so, will destroy this mess YOU and the other Brexit Voters got us into by falling for the lies of the Conservative Looney fringe.
Your responsibility, and that of the other Brexit Voters, the Conservative Party, and UKIP, as I seem to have to keep reminding you.
Sort it out, or like me, wait patiently for events to do so.
By the way, there is no "Venom" in my remarks, they simply point the finger of blame in the right direction.
The fact that your conscience sees this as venom says more about your resistance to accepting responsibility for your actions than anything about my attitude.
I simply respond in the only way I know, by telling the truth as I see it.
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"How true those words are, even Today" Appropriately I remember Peter Sellers saying that in a Goon Show sketch lampooning a leading Politician of the Day
Really when you think about it our future is being ruined by the 4% additional Brexit Votes and no politician has the guts to stand up and oppose it, as though the views of half of the country count for nothing, and we are commited like slaves.
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He's a politician and is therefore doing the expedient thing, that which preserves his support. This is at least the third time I've explained this to you, but it doesn't seem to sink in.
It doesn't matter who it is, May, Johnson, Rees Mogg or Corbyn, political expediency calls the shots. They act in line with their support.
.
They represent THEMSELVES and us when they feel no alternative is available.
I can't say I disagree.
It seems that the current government is paralysed by internal division.
The only person doing any shooting on here is you, and by now surely you are running out of feet?
Lets be honest,we don't have politicians in any party to complete a successful Brexit,to attempt Brexit they have starved all the other departments so that the normal functions of government is going to pot.
I am no lover of the EU and the Junckers type but at times you have to do business with people you don't like.
If Brexit is to go ahead,IMHO we should give them a package of what we demand from a trade and social deal.the EU keep complaining that we haven't told them what we want. The EU have their requirements we should have ours,we should give them a deadline of agree the package by say December end.
No agreement we should pull our negotiators away until the EU are serious about negotiating,we should remind them the clock is ticking and it is their turn to be told that they are not serious about the negotiations.
If no deal we walk away,start charging WTO tariffs and put Fred in a portacabin at Dover with a rubber stamp.
Once all the BMW,VW,Merc and Audi are ganged up at Calais,the Germans will start panicking . Our manufacturers will also suffer,money will be tight but Brexiters will get what they voted for.
Brexit is already starting to bite in the retail sector...Jigsaw,Debenhams,John Lewis,Oasis,Hobbs are all in cash flow problems,the high margins they enjoyed on Asian sourced products has been diluted,they are desperate for a good Christmas.
KudosDave
The UK has basically 3 choices.
1. Negotiate a deal they can believe is a good deal
2. Walk away with no deal
3. Seek to negate Brexit and have business as usual.
Of those options, I have been consistent in hoping for 3.
Except for Ireland, Denmark, the Nederlands, loss of British trade is an unwelcome but minor inconvenience. For the three countries mentioned, but particularly Ireland, loss of UK trade and markets is a big deal. It is particularly important to us as much of the distribution channels.. the large importers exporters are closely linked.... Even Guinness is controlled from Park Lane, not Dublin.
You may not wish to think so but Brexit is not big in the thinking of middle Europe. So while there might be chagrin and lack of Christmas bonuses for Audi sales managers, it will just mean that the Swedes will get their models a little earlier. Those in England who lust after their latest Audi , will end up buying say an A4 and not the A6 they had promised themselves.
the government has to agree within the cabinet the shape of brexit so that David Davis can tell his opposite number what we want.
TM can't control her cabinet, her own party and still seen as a caretaker PM despite winning the last election.