No. You would be literally making a bomb. The more you try to contain gasses the bigger explosion you will get.
Smoke is toxic and flammable. Chimney won't remove all of it , but it is better than nothing.
Battery Fires
- Thread starter saneagle
- Start date
Your approach is back to front, and in a commercial setting potentially unlawful.
Known risks must be sufficiently mitigated, and most of that is in designing out the chances of them occurring.
Instead of containing a risky procedure in a fire proof box, eliminate the risky procedure!
That might be to implement equipment that cannot produce the dangerous situation. In the example of charging an individual cell group, the charging equipment would need to incorporate as a minimum automatic disconnection to avoid exceeding safe voltage, and better if it also monitored temperature and current.
Or in a commercial setting, treat a severely depleted or unbalanced battery as dangerous scrap, and eliminate the procedure altogether. Where's the liability if such a 'recovered' battery goes on to cause a problem? I wouldn't want it.
A fireproof box as a secondary measure does no harm, but is no substitute for proper risk controls.
Known risks must be sufficiently mitigated, and most of that is in designing out the chances of them occurring.
Instead of containing a risky procedure in a fire proof box, eliminate the risky procedure!
That might be to implement equipment that cannot produce the dangerous situation. In the example of charging an individual cell group, the charging equipment would need to incorporate as a minimum automatic disconnection to avoid exceeding safe voltage, and better if it also monitored temperature and current.
Or in a commercial setting, treat a severely depleted or unbalanced battery as dangerous scrap, and eliminate the procedure altogether. Where's the liability if such a 'recovered' battery goes on to cause a problem? I wouldn't want it.
A fireproof box as a secondary measure does no harm, but is no substitute for proper risk controls.
The news story say's the bike was bought from an online market place (what ever that is) face book or Ebay so likely a used item ???
The bike as we know is a converted push bike .
The chances of a mismatched battery /charger comes to light in my mind as well as the user not being familiar with safe charging practices or matched component parts.
The bike as we know is a converted push bike .
The chances of a mismatched battery /charger comes to light in my mind as well as the user not being familiar with safe charging practices or matched component parts.
I would not want such a battery either.
If the battery were 'recovered' by someone very experienced at recovering batteries, then maybe.
But how often do people, who are clearly beginners, go onto public Internet forums and get advice on how to recover a battery .............
There is one on this very thread that does yet realise how close he came to a serious fire by bypassing the BMS (based on 'knowledge' gained here) and is now talking about a commercial venture repairing batteries. I warned him in another thread but he seems determined to either burn his house down or cause an explosion. This stuff is NOT a fire risk, it is an EXPLOSION risk and not to be treated lightly.
We currently have a drink driving campaign going on here which talks about 1000 times it was fine but the 1001st ended in disaster.
Advice is better than no advice. Personally, as a non-expert, that huge difference in cell bank voltage would have stopped me in my tracks. Excessive charging temperature within the case would probably have set off my alarm, before that hot cell/cell group cracked:
https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/home-ruination-by-ebike-battery-fire-expulserating-preterminator%E2%84%A2%C2%AE%C2%A9%E2%84%A0.46934/
Presumably he switched the charger off when he heard the crack, and had he not read forum threads and received advice, that "small crack sound" would have occurred while the battery pack was inside the case, probably gone unnoticed while the battery continued to charge, which might have gone on to damage adjacent cells starting a chain reaction, leading to more ignitable smoke and explosion? At least that dude still has nostril hairs, eyebrows, possibly a full head of hair, and a house they can all live in.
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As far as I can tell, there's a dearth of detail in the new guidelines, and I reckon this is because there wasn't much agreement between the vested interests involved, which I believe will lead to them doing whatever the heck they want with regard to locking everything down to hell and making ebikes unrepairable. Repairability isn't mentioned at all!
Roll on fast e-fashion! Our food, air and water will be further poisoned by ewaste and the oceans will become gigantic extinction level event causing cesspools. 
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For sure it is.
And most often the advice should be, you dont know enough about the subject, you cannot become an expert by reading a couple of internet posts, so dont even attempt the repair.
Yet still the 'advice' is given.
Well asking advice is fine.
But you cannot redact the appropriate advice to a couple of sentences in an Internet post, yet some people try.
If you were buying a 'repaired' battery, most people might might expect that the person doing the repair had some formal qualifications or certifications in electrics\electronics.
The risk is on a whole other scale vs a joblot of broken ICE dirt bikes to repair and resell. I reckon that battery pack would have been charged, overheated, smoked and exploded, if he hadn't received advice and opened the battery pack. Sadly, time can't yet be rewound to confirm. If time ever could be, we'd already know how.
BTW despite the ban, second hand ebikes and batteries are still being sold by individuals on ebay.
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He didn't do it based on knowledge gained here. He was told how to check the battery and how to balance it, but he chose to charge it through the output terminals, presumably because he read that somewhere else or just invented that procedure himself. Nobody advised him to do that, and, to my knowledge, nobody has ever advised anybody to do that on this forum without explaining the risks and how to mitigate them.
While he may not ha e been instructed to completely bypass the BMS to charge the whole bank he had been told to charge individual cell groups directly by bypassing the BMS. A couple of posts later he has got bored of waiting for the individual groups to charge so decided to do the rest all in one go. Some of the cell groups appear to have a higher voltage than others leading to the fortunately benign incident. If he continues buying piles of shite and not understanding what he is doing and not following the sometimes very technical advice given here to the letter somone is going to get badly hurt.
Somebody explained to him exactly how to balance individual cells and how to monitor them so that there would be no issues. There's nothing wrong with that. You can't blame whoever that was for the guy ignoring the advice and doing his own thing.
It's basically the same as somebody asking how to store their battery. They'd be advised to keep it in a cool stable situation, but instead, they put it in an oven and it blew up when somebody turned on the oven to pre-heat it for the Sunday roast. Your argument is that nobody should have advised him to store it in case he ignored the advice and did his own thing. Storing batteries is dangerous if you don't do it right, so is using one, and so is having one. Maybe we should advise everyone not to get an ebike because they're dangerous. In fact never mind owning an ebike, riding any bike is complicated and dangerous if you don't get it right, so keep away from them. Is that it?
My guess is, he knows more about balloons than I do, but not as much as @Nealh.
Provided people follow expert instructions to the letter, I'm not entirely certain electrics/electronics qualifications or certifications are strictly necessary to attempt diagnosing a battery fault. Apart from assembling and "repairing" PCs and servers (ie diassembly and reassembly, no soldering of components involved), I myself have made a point of never mucking about with physical electronics and getting my hands dirty... until I bought a Bafang BBS01B conversion kit, because I wanted an ebike which had a reasonable chance of repairing myself, rather than a locked down to hell bastard of a device (increasingly de rigueur these days), functionality of some or all of which, could be killed remotely by the manufacturer whenever they wanted to make me spend even more money than they charge via agents for servicing - a disgusting state of affairs nearly all of us are now certain to end up with, thanks to those intentionally vague new government guidelines manfacturers have cooked up in collusion. There's no mention of repairability, or use of an common open standard for comms.
I never had to do much practical electrickery with O and A level physics, aside from computing modules for my joint honours degree (lots of typing and scribbling with pencils was the extent of practical stuff, nothing that got my fingers substantially dirty), everything I studied at university was something hardly anyone studies (wasn't one of the soggy sciences - those lead to dirty hands), yet as you know I was finally forced to learn how to solder thick wires together, with help from you and others on the forum (cheers!), and my hands are now often dirty. When my battery goes titsup, I'll certainly seek advice on the forum and attempt diagnosis of the problem, but if the cell bank voltages show very wide variation, I would probably attempt to balance (I've bought at least two types of lithum-ion cell charging module, ready for the day) and soon thereafter most likely abandon the battery, buy a new one.I've seen that happen here before - this isn't a 24 hour live chat service desk run by some commercial concern manned by hired experts, and impatient people jump the gun leading to problems.
I sometimes wonder how many have a go battery repair heroes don't post about how they burned their houses down killing their families and pets, out of fear of embarrassment and barrage of "I told you so"s. I can't wait for the first one.
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Advice / instructions must always be accompanied by sufficient safety warnings, including 'don't do it if you don't understand'.
As with all good info, the 'why' as well as the 'what'.
I think that was the case on this occasion.
As with all good info, the 'why' as well as the 'what'.
I think that was the case on this occasion.
Three injured after e-bike fire traps them inside Plymouth home
The casualties suffered burns and smoke inhalation
www.plymouthherald.co.uk
The casualties suffered burns and smoke inhalation
Three injured after e-bike fire traps them inside home
The casualties suffered burns and smoke inhalation
www.plymouthherald.co.uk
Yeah - exactly. Funnily enough, we have all been using petrol and those of us with an attached garage have been storing quantities of it inside the buildings we live in for decades, in some cases.
I've been handling petrol for at least 57 years, and I think you have been for much the same time. Petroleum can be tricky if mishandled I am told and it is a LOT easier to create an accident with it than it is with a battery, but of course that technology and regulatory regime emerged long before the nanny state and the infantalisation of the whole population which treats everybody like a toddler in a nursery, just because the odd moron might do something stupid.
It is very noticeable that over the last fifty years or so the whole population has become emasculated and sheep like.
Nobody is to tackle a criminal (say the police).
Nobody is to attempt any procedure he has not been thoroughly trained and certified in.
Nobody is to be told anything lest he be tempted like the thousands of generations who came before him, to try and do it himself.
Looking a thousand miles across the continent to the east, and thinking back to a very few years before i was born, I see men and women who do and dare and fight to protect their freedom - at whatever cost. I doubt that here, there would be many signing up like my mother and father did in 1940 and if they did, I suspect they would be so paralysed by fear that they would do nothing in the way of action without checking first that they had completed a full health and safety check and consulted their certification. It is all utterly pathetic and despicable. If we ever have to face what the Ukrainian people have had to do, we will be overrun in a week.
Nobody is to tackle a criminal (say the police).
Nobody is to attempt any procedure he has not been thoroughly trained and certified in.
Nobody is to be told anything lest he be tempted like the thousands of generations who came before him, to try and do it himself.
Looking a thousand miles across the continent to the east, and thinking back to a very few years before i was born, I see men and women who do and dare and fight to protect their freedom - at whatever cost. I doubt that here, there would be many signing up like my mother and father did in 1940 and if they did, I suspect they would be so paralysed by fear that they would do nothing in the way of action without checking first that they had completed a full health and safety check and consulted their certification. It is all utterly pathetic and despicable. If we ever have to face what the Ukrainian people have had to do, we will be overrun in a week.
yes no one advised me , when the battery was nearly charged as Mathew instructed , I realised we now had voltage at the secondary terminal s that go to the battery , whilst still not getting any voltage at the first input and discharge terminals.
I was sitting with it when put the main charger on just for a few minutes, then heard the crack , turned it off and disconnected it .
and monitoring the voltage the set that fused or blew was at 4.5V so just one volt higher than the rest.
but as the charge was still going into the BMS it must be knackard ?
Hence my questions on how to make a safe place to do this sort of thing if something goes wrong.
or how is it supposed to be done in a commercial battery repair shop ?
That said any battery charging is a risk then even expensive branded things so if we think about Risk Assesment something I have done many times then really do we want to charge any battery in our homes unattended without some sort of emergency procedures in place ?
After all as soon as One goes out on a bike or car there is risk.
One of the other posts regarding getting round £500 quid Carrera battery handshake does work .
Attached is a motor test set using KT , Suntours combination , which I whished I had set up a few days ago .
I just had to refund a guy on e bay for for a Suntour motor and wheel which I could not test after buying a job lot of ex display bikes
this one works fine with a throttle .
but I would still like to put an after market BMS in this battery as I can no longer sell it on e bay .
I have always liked playing with fire !
taking all your good advise on board guys thanks , but I will be learning how to build batteries and fix other components I enjoy the challenge.
hope you will still help ?
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