wisper 905se

[E-Wheels Germany]

Interpretation

Please also consider that bikes bought in from Germany will need to be serviced by the German dealer, we can look after the bike here but there would obviously be a charge, and any warranter issues would be forwarded to Germany.
Best regards David

...and presumably Germany would forward the warranty claim to the manufacturer?

Warranty is held and to be granted by the manufacturer of a product, that is Wisper UK. According to European law of free trade every Wisper retailer has to fulfill the guarantee, independent of which country he is in.

 

[HarryB]

Warranty is held and to be granted by the manufacturer of a product, that is Wisper UK. According to European law of free trade every Wisper retailer has to fulfill the guarantee, independent of which country he is in.

Thank you for the clarification - this is what I would have expected.

 

[frank9755]

I managed to get a chance to ride my Wisper into work last week. A combination of a business trip and flu having previously prevented me doing it for a couple of weeks.
I'll do a more detailed review when I've got to know it better, but my initial view is that there are some very good points about it and some less good points.

Good bits
1. Speed - It's fast. Normally cruise at 17-19 mph and often get above 20. I got to work in 47 mins - compared to 51 on Powabyke and 54 on Powacycle and 56 on my unpowered bike. I expect that time might improve as I still had a bit of flu, caught a few red lights and am still getting the hang of the Wisper. Distance is 12.5 miles so, assuming 5 mins lost at red lights, average speed =17.9 mph.
2. Range from the new 13Ah battery - I did about 28 miles (detour on the way home) unrestricted with very liberal use of the throttle, and the battery had plenty of charge left. I've done a few more miles since and its still not ready to charge (I'm conditioning it). I expect it will be good for 40 miles. Obviously this range will decline with age, but I'm pleased with this sort of performance, especially given the cold weather, which has really reduced the range of my Powacycle NiMH batteries.
3. Brakes - I'd not had experience with disc brakes on bikes before, but the one on the Wisper is great. I can't remember a better brake on any bike.
4. Ride - It's not a bad bike to ride. Slightly harsh, which I guess is the aluminium, but it feels light and agile, steers well and is rideable with no power. With the forks locked it feels pretty rigid and solid. Feels well balanced with the rear motor.

Not so good.
1. Controls - three buttons control the mode (pedelec/e-bike/derestricted) which gives 9 combinations. It's not clear if a button is on or off and they are easy to flick by accident when changing gear or using the bell. Much of the time riding the bike is spent trying to work out which mode it is in and whether I have accidentally changed mode (hence potential for speed to increase!)
2. Controller operation. Simply, the bike delivers more power than needed initially but, after a short time under load, the controller reins it back in. It means the bike is not very satisfactory as a pedelec only, and I can understand why the Germans didn't want to sell it. It works much better as an e-bike with throttle (subject to 1 above).
3. Battery difficult to remove. Can't be removed at all without taking the seat out.
4. Quality of some components poor. In particular, rear brake (I had to replace it before using), seat (awful 'sofa' type, women's shape, completely out of keeping with the style of the bike) and speedo/battery indicator (basically its useless as a speedo (unreadable and gives incorrect readings - if you could read it!) and as a battery indicator (voltage based so shows full until empty) but has some use as an indicator of battery load (showing if the battery is under too much pressure, which helps you to work out when you are in de-restricted mode)).
5. Gearing. Mine is fitted with the 14-34 7-speed megarange, not the 11-34 mentioned in the spec on this site. the 14-34 gives just about enough top range but requires a higher cadence than many riders will be comfortable with. The 11-34 would be a better choice to take advantage of the big chainwheel.

I've not tried it on a significant hill yet. It copes very easily with short, steepish ones. It managed ok with a longer, moderate one (Holland Park Avenue), but needed use of throttle.

Frank

 

[flecc]

Thanks for the very full report Frank, it sound like it will have a near identical speed performance to the Torq once you have the buttons all sorted. Clearly, like the Torq originally, it's going to need some ongoing further development to reach it's full potential.

I know that Wisper are trying to source a decent hinged seatpost to improve the battery removal, but it's proving difficult to find one that doesn't add disproportionately to the bike's weight.

Those horrible wide saddles seems to be a problem everywhere, the Quando I bought had one, and I just suffered the same on the Kalkhoff I tested, and as indicated in that review, I'd have to change that.

Hopefully they'll also attend to the other things. Freewheels with 13-34 and 11-34 are easily obtained and either would be better to extend the bike's comfortable pedalling scope. Quite why they bothered with providing a poor speedo when there are so many excellent and cheap ones on the market is difficult to understand, likewise I'm surprised that the contrast between those front and rear brakes wasn't acted upon. Despite all their protestations to the contrary, I really doubt if they do properly try out the bikes they design in China, since make after make arrive with these very obvious flaws.

However, the battery seems good news, and that's going to be very fundamental for your satisfaction.
.

 

[Cyclezee]

An excellent report Frank.
I wonder if you have ridden a Torq and how you thought the 905se compared?
I found it far more comfortable than a Torq with the rear wheel motor and front suspension forks combination, judder and vibration are virtually eliminated. I agree the controls are confusing at first, I use mine derestricted all the time, so once they are set, I don't touch the green and red on the left. As for the saddle, it is not the best, but not the worst by a long way and I prefer not having a hinged seat post as I charge the battery in situ, in any case removing the seat pillar if you need to remove the battery is quite easy as it is quick release. I haven't had any brake problems to report. I would agree with Frank’s comments on the instrument console as far as the speedometer is concerned, but find the battery/power meter very useful. The gearchange is very smooth and the ratios seem to suit me personally. To date I have only ridden about 100 miles on it, but I am quite happy with it so far.
Starting next week my son is going to use mine to commute to work, so that will put quite a few miles on it.
On the subject of saddles, I really like the one on my Kalkhoff and find it very comfortable, but that is probably because I weight 15 stones and am 6'1", so I need a bit of cushioning and I am going to change my 905se one for a Selle San Remo which I previously used on a Torq.

John

 

[flecc]

On the subject of saddles, I really like the one on my Kalkhoff and find it very comfortable, but that is probably because I weight 15 stones and am 6'1", so I need a bit of cushioning and I am going to change my 905se one for a Selle San Remo which I previously used on a Torq.

John

Body size and weight does affect things as you say John, but also the riding stance matters. I like to ride with my legs going to nearly straight at the bottom of a pedal stroke to get the maximum output, and because I'm 11 stones and fairly slim build, the saddle width on these wider saddles impedes the back of my thighs as the leg straightens.

Lots of riders these days, especially on MTBs, seem to ride with saddle low and legs well bent all the time, so saddle width would never affect them in this way, probably why manufacturers are happy with wide saddles for the mass market.
.

 

[frank9755]

Flecc,

Yes - I think battery and motor performance are the critical things, and they are good so far.

I'm sure your point about lack of testing is right. The same thought ocurred to me. There are some quite obvious things that could have been picked up.

I have to say I'm not a big fan of hinged seatposts, but maybe it would be better to have that option. However, there would be plenty of room to get the battery out, if it were designed that way.

John,

I've ridden a Torq but only a short trial; in fact my first ever ride on an electric bike, all of 9 months ago! At the time I wasn't able to compare it to anything so can't remember how it compares. However the one obvious benefit of the Wisper is the rear wheel drive. I keep the forks permanantly locked and the ride is fine - no motor wheel 'hammering'

Good to hear your views that the Wisper compares favourably!

Frank

 

[JohnofCambridge]

I am another Wisper owner. It is good to see David of Wisper picks up points for the forum.

I go along with all Frank has said. The speedomenter seems to be a current meter so does not tell you much. I have been given a Catseye speed computer for Christmas so that should give me a pretty good indication.

The rear light also needs a change, before mass production, to the other side for anything UK! It also needs to be a bit more powerful and dropped a bit lower. Simple small pannier bags obscure it! I fitted my own LED version to the seat post.

I have to say I don't like the seat - comfortable for sitting may be but not much good for pedalling.

I also would like to see a slightly different arrangement for charging. You have to pull out a rubber plug with a thin rubber ring pull which has already torn away ... and you have to pull out another plug before you can get the charger in. A better ring pull and some offsetting between the two plugs would be better.

Apart from the confusing controls, and it is very easy to accidentally get into the wrong mode, I am happy with the bike.

It would also be nice to have an English instruction book in due course. Sigh!

John

 

[jimmyengland1000]

I had a 905e and replaced most of the parts on it. Very disappointing. I've been considering a new 905se but, based on what I've read here on this very useful forum, it sounds very similar to the 905e in build quality, bits needing replacement, useless bits like the power meter/speedo etc. Plus of course, it's a lot more expensive. From what I've read here, posted by another user, the Kalkoff Pro-Connect, due out next March (so ready for spring!) will cost about the same as the Wisper 905se but appears actually to be the 'superior bike' that Wisper claims theirs is. It looks a lot more roady than the Wisper but I found that my 905e, whilst looking a bit off-roady, was in fact not suited to anything except a normal road as off road made bits fall off and the spokes loosen all the time. http://www.kalkhoff.de/bikes/bilddetail.asp?bild=kh_proconnect_pedelec_ret08.jpg[/URL]

 

[flecc]

Here's a link for that Pro-Connect for you Jimmy. Click on the photo to get the enlarged image.
.

 

[frank9755]

Jimmy,

After your poor experience I'm surprised you'd consider buying from Wisper again! You are right that they are not off-road bikes. To be honest I don't think any electric bikes are.

The Pro-Connect is quite a different bike from the Wisper - being a speed-limited pedelec while the Wisper is really just throttle control but with possibility of higher speed. Also it may be more expensive; in Germany, it seems to be listed at a couple of hundred Euros more than the Agutta. I haven't seen any UK pricing yet.

Frank

 

[Cyclezee]

Jimmy,
As Frank has said the Wisper is a different concept from the Pro-Connect. The Wisper Works 905se is an improvement over the 905e, and it would be fairer to compare it with its nearest equivalent, the Ezee Torq Trekking.
50cycles are currently taking orders for the Pro-Connect and you can reserve one with a £200 refundable deposit, but they give no idea of what the price will be.

John

 

[jimmyengland1000]

Jimmy,

After your poor experience I'm surprised you'd consider buying from Wisper again! You are right that they are not off-road bikes. To be honest I don't think any electric bikes are.

Frank

Well Frank, I think it's because I like the LOOK of the Wisper bike. I do like the lines of it and prefer it to the serious road-type bikes. I read here that the 905se is supposedly vastly improved compared to the 905e (there certainly was a lot of room for improvement), so that's why I thought about buying one. A lot of the problems I had do seem to have been addressed. The thing is though... last April I paid £620 for my 905se brand-new. The RRP was about £800 at the time. Now, less than a year later, the 905se retails at £1200.... double last year's price on a 905e. I just don't think it's worth it, so I'm going to wait until the Kalkhoff Pro-Connect comes out. It looks more road bike but it looks elegant with it too, so I reckon I'd rather pay more for a bike that's worth it....

 

[flecc]

Bear in mind that a Panasonic powered bike performs in a radically different way though, so a test ride on one is a good idea if you've only used twistgrip controlled hub motors previously.
.

 

[jimmyengland1000]

Hi Flecc. The Wisper is not just throttle controlled though. It's a pedelec with magnetic pedal sensor. It has an overide switch that allows the throttle to be used for 'off-road use' (which then makes the spokes all loosen off and the mudguard snap off.....). I actually prefer the pedal assist as opposed to throttle. With a throttle only bike, I find I am constantly thinking about how much twist I'm giving and it spoils the ride for me. I'd prefer to be automatically assisted a bit when pedalling. I did find that my Wisper 905e did 26 miles regularly with power left for a few miles more used in this way, without the throttle. I was pleased with the range aspect of things but suspect that, in a really hilly area, it would be a lot less (I live in flat Lincolnshire)

 

[flecc]

I realise it's pedelec as well, like most of them, but the Panasonic unit is still very different, you could be surprised how much so. There's less sensation of added power, the whole thing more subtle and refined.

I like that, and most do, but I think it best to warn after hub motor use, since some find the lack of "kick in the pants" power delivery disconcerting.
.

 

[BossBob]

I find I am constantly thinking about how much twist I'm giving and it spoils the ride for me.

Interesting ....
I have no such worries!
I whack the throttle open on departure, and close it 30mins later on arrival
I leave the controller to sort out what to apply and when, and use the brake switch to cut out the drive at the 2 junctions on my way in, and 3 on the way home.

So, I'm curious, If the bike has the range for your journey (assuming it is a commute) why would you not just use the maximum assistance throughout?

Rab

 

[fishingpaul]

some of us want a bit of exercise from our bikes,i prefer pedelec only bikes (no throttle without pedalling), as it stops the temptation for me to be lazy,my latest bike a giant revive,with panasonic motor will allow me to ride without assistance with very little drag from the motor,good for extra long trips.

 

[jimmyengland1000]

I realise it's pedelec as well, like most of them, but the Panasonic unit is still very different, you could be surprised how much so. There's less sensation of added power, the whole thing more subtle and refined.

Is there any sensation of 'fighting' the motor if the battery is flat? ie if I were to ride the bike until the battery is flat and need to get home under pedal power only, would I be fighting a lot of drag on the Panasonic motor, do you know?

 

[jimmyengland1000]

Interesting ....
I have no such worries!
I whack the throttle open on departure, and close it 30mins later on arrival
I leave the controller to sort out what to apply and when, and use the brake switch to cut out the drive at the 2 junctions on my way in, and 3 on the way home.

So, I'm curious, If the bike has the range for your journey (assuming it is a commute) why would you not just use the maximum assistance throughout?

Rab

I do want to get some exercise by pedalling and I don;t use my bike to commute a fixed distance... more a kind of recreational meandering about. So, I really want as much range as possible with me pedalling and being assisted to some degree without having to be preoccupied with how much throttle (and therefore battery power) I'm using. I did have a throttle only bike and found that it was too easy to NOT pedal at all and then not get as far as I wanted in range. So, I then tried to economise on the use of the throttle so I could get the extra range... which meant I spent more time thinking of the throttle than enjoying the ride......