What is the best legal crank drive bike available?

[eddieo]

Left our bikes at our property in Spain in June , massive forest fires in Catalunya in July = no bikes or property - very sad

Alan

WOW! that is tough.....

 

[Scimitar]

I think the days when quality in China was very poor are long over, Ive had e-bikes long enough to remember when Wispa first started and had an HORRENDOUS name for quality, or rather lack of it.....and well done to David for working so hard to improve it to the level that he has......but STILL using Chinese parts.....just BETTER ones, like most other bike suppliers on this forum


Lynda

Exactly so. The China-bashers would do well to remember that some dreadful crap was and is produced in Britain and Europe too. At the lower end of the market there was some awful stuff. The quality of Chinese production ranges from dreadful crap to top-notch, and there's no reason to tar it all with the same brush. Some people, I'm afraid, are just auld snobs, without the wit or wisdom to see things as they really are.

 

[Kudoscycles]

So Chinese manufacturing is now synonymous with quality is it......There is an oxymoron if ever there was one. And as for accusations of snobbery for not liking most Chinese junk, well its my turn to be perplexed. As for being toy's E bikes are my main form of transport used almost daily both at home and abroad, so I can hardly be accused of playing at this.

I have had a few e bikes and all have left me down from time to time and needed in some cases major work. this is fine when at home as not so reliant on any particular bike. but when away on an extended holiday it has ruined the important to us cycling element on more then one occasion. So Wisper are moving production to Europe..I wonder why.


So I will spend my pound notes in the European market, supporting our own economies thank you very much. Maybe in time the Chinese catch up, but from what I see on offer these days that is not going to be any time soon.

Eddie,you may be surprised how little of the assembly work of some of these high end german bikes is completed in Europe. The current norm is to manufacture 75% of the work in China or Taiwan,then ship to Europe to install the Bosch motor and electrics,this has the bonus of keeping the import duty down to 3.8% if less than 40% of the total value.
It does mean that there are already some high quality chinese assemblers for they are used to building to the standards demanded by the dutch and germans. The problem we have in the UK is that our low volumes attract one-off container shipments to be sold cheaply on the internet by some dubious traders,the bad quality of these bikes tends to adversely influence the opionion of chinese bikes in general.
Kudos has always bought in high volume,really too high for our UK market,but this allows us access to the same manufacturers used by the germans hence we have avoided most of the chinese quality problems. The current strength of sterling means that we are in a current unique position where quality is very affordable,you will see some good cheap bikes coming out of China over the next 12 months.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[Kudoscycles]

Oh, come ON Dave...get off your pedestal......before you start rubbishing other makes of bikes may I suggest that you at least SEE a Tonaro and preferably RIDE one before uttering such rubbish as saying they are heavy unrideable "mopeds" without power.

The Tonaros are easy to pedal without power and my T. Esprit is about FOUR kilos LIGHTER than a lot of your bikes.
I would imagine most parts of both are similar in their origins, their only difference is that the Tonaro has the crank drive and yours are hub, both with throttles......what makes Tonaros so inferior to yours in your eyes ????

Only difference that I can see is that mine is a lighter bike than your equivelant model and will go up hills that yours cant.....and Im talking here about WITHOUT using the throttle.

I can take this sort of " mine is better quality rubbish " from a retailer/owner of a higher end spec model bike , but quite honestly .....NOT from yours, with respect.
I have agreed with, and read with interest, a lot of things you have said in the past and I am interested in your undoubted commitment to introducing many more new and varied bikes into your range in the coming year(s) but please dont resort to rubbishing makes that you have no personal experience of.....it does nothing to enhance your reputation in my eyes.

Lynda

Lynda,I looked up the Tonaro Esprit and must say it is not in the style of the Enduro or Bighit. The Esprit is a nice step through bike and I noticed that they also sell a nice trecking style bike.
I apologise putting all Tonaros under the same category but in defence of my mistake why are not Tonaros presented at cycle shows or magazine reviews,the perception of many is that they are all of the mini moped style including myself.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[tillson]

Is the bike weight that important? Why are people talking in disparaging terms about Tonaro bikes because they weigh a few kilos more than bikes costing twice, sometimes three times as much?

Take fabulously named Kalkhoff Pro Connect XTR S10 for instance, weighing in at a gossamer 22.8 kilograms, but costing a hefty £3995. Compare this to a Tonaro Bighit. A bruiser at 5 kilograms heavier (27.8Kg) but light on the pocket at £1200. Does the extra 5 kilograms really matter for most of us?

I've got a Pro Connect, not a super go-faster Fireball XL5 like the one above, but it's supposed to weigh roughly the same. I can soon add another 5 kilos to it when I call in at a Tesco Express. After loading it up with four litres of Sunnydelight, a couple of kilos of super noodles, a bottle of un-branded cheep cider and a brace of Pot Noodle, I must be mixing it with the Bighit boys & girls in terms of weight. But the thing is, the bike doesn't feel any different to ride, so what's the point of chasing 3 or 4 kilos of weight saving at a cost of hundreds of pounds? The motor takes the additional strain, that's why I've got an ebike. It might feel a bit different if I switch the motor off, but I didn't buy an ebike to ride switched off. My telly isn't very good either if I use that, "switched off" and without power.

It's probably different if you need to lift the bike onto a rack or into a motor home, but most of us don't need to do that so you can't criticise an ebike for being a bit on the heavy side.

I like the Tonaro bikes, they offer something a bit unique. Additionally, I've heard no bad reports from their owners and they are sensibly priced, so what exactly is wrong with them?

 

[funkylyn]

Is the bike weight that important? Why are people talking in disparaging terms about Tonaro bikes because they weigh a few kilos more than bikes costing twice, sometimes three times as much?

Take fabulously named Kalkhoff Pro Connect XTR S10 for instance, weighing in at a gossamer 22.8 kilograms, but costing a hefty £3995. Compare this to a Tonaro Bighit. A bruiser at 5 kilograms heavier (27.8Kg), but light on the pocket at £1200. Does the extra 5 kilograms really matter for most of us?

I've got a Pro Connect, not a super go-faster Fireball XL5, like the one above but it's supposed to weigh roughly the same. I can soon add another 5 kilos to it when I call in at the Tesco Express. After loading it up with four litres of Sunnydelight, a couple of kilos of super noodles, a bottle of un-branded cheep cider and a brace of Pot Noodle, I must be mixing it with the Bighit boys & girls in terms of weight. But the thing is, the bike doesn't feel any different to ride, so what's the point of chasing 3 or 4 kilos of weight saving at a cost of hundreds of pounds? The motor takes the additional strain, that's why we have ebikes. It might feel a bit different if I switch the motor off, but I didn't buy an ebike to ride switched off. My telly isn't very good either if I use that without power.

It's probably different if you need to lift the bike onto a rack or into a motor home, but most of us don't need to do that, so you can't criticise an ebike for being a bit on the heavy side. I like the Tonaro bikes. They offer something a bit unique, I've heard no bad reports from their owners and they are sensibly priced. What's wrong with that?

Absolutely spot on Tillson......and thanks for the insight into your eating/drinking habits lol ( I did hear that sunnydelight isnt too good for you though ! )

My one worry when buying my Tonaro was that it was heavier than my previous bike and I DO have a m/home rack to lift onto......I was impressed enough with it to find a solution.....if there werent any helping hands around when I needed to lift it I have enough room inside to put it if necessary....it just shows, if you want something bad enough you can always find a way.

Lynda

 

[Eagle]

eddio,

….the Turdaro term came about because of certain very vocal members on here behaving childishly when I introduced a new kit bike on here last year. Some good at handing it out but don't like it back.....anyway the bike is junk and the name fits perfectly.

I am confident that our more rational, intelligent and perceptive members/readers are more than capable of seeing beyond your insulting drivel and judging the Tonaro on its merits for themselves.

 

[banbury frank]

Hi I think you need to look at the facts on the Tonaro It is as far as I know Reliable good Support by the dealer With no reported problems Which have not be Fixed quickly This is Good for the Electric Bike Market like all consumer products cars motor bikes you ether like a brand or model or hate them


PS well done Phill at Power pedals

Frank

 

[funkylyn]

Lynda,I looked up the Tonaro Esprit and must say it is not in the style of the Enduro or Bighit. The Esprit is a nice step through bike and I noticed that they also sell a nice trecking style bike.
I apologise putting all Tonaros under the same category but in defence of my mistake why are not Tonaros presented at cycle shows or magazine reviews,the perception of many is that they are all of the mini moped style including myself.
Dave
Kudoscycles

Dave, I dont know why, if a bike isnt represented at a big cycle show, it would necessarily mean it was a 'moped type' bike, Im sure I dont need to remind you how expensive these shows are to attend.

Powerpedals are a small family company who found the Tonaro range of bikes, fell in love with them and just wanted to bring them to the UK market,(coupled with an ethos of after sales service over and beyond the norm) and I for one am pleased that they did.

On a personal and business level I would love it if they could/would attend more shows etc because they can certainly give a lot of importers, including yourself, a run for their money with an inexpensive crank drive range of bikes......you obviously must know this, hence your intention of bringing reasonably priced crank drives into your range in the future.

Hearing of your plans Im surprised you didnt try out all the opposition first......try one Dave, I think you will be very pleasantly surprised.......they are nice, decently put together bikes that do exactly what they say they will do, and, as you know from this forum, have an ever growing band of satisfied owners.

Personally, I had been looking at, and could have afforded to buy, a more expensive crank drive bike, the USP for me, and what finally swung it ....was the throttle.......

Lynda

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Lynda,I looked up the Tonaro Esprit and must say it is not in the style of the Enduro or Bighit. The Esprit is a nice step through bike and I noticed that they also sell a nice trecking style bike.
I apologise putting all Tonaros under the same category but in defence of my mistake why are not Tonaros presented at cycle shows or magazine reviews,the perception of many is that they are all of the mini moped style including myself.
Dave
Kudoscycles

Don't forget the Tonaro Eagle that has conventional frame, and it also has a more conventional rack-battery that would be easier to replace/upgrade.
Eagle - Our Products

 

[eddieo]

I think some of you have lost the plot and forgotten what cycling is about. My LBS has individual wheels on the wall that cost more then a Turdaro....Some of you need to get a life. Discussing this thing on a thread regarding the best crankdrive available is hilarious

 

[tillson]

I think some of you have lost the plot and forgotten what cycling is about. My LBS has individual wheels on the wall that cost more then a Turdaro....Some of you need to get a life. Discussing this thing on a thread regarding the best crankdrive available is hilarious

OK. I like to think that I am open minded and receptive to other viewpoints and will accept, for the time being, that I may have lost the plot.

Could you put me back on plot by explaining how the fact that a bike shop near to where you live sells a bike wheel costing more than a Tonaro somehow makes the Tonaro an unwise choice of bike?

 

[Kenny]

Perhaps this thread would have been better titled best "value" crank drive.

I bought my Panasonic drive bike largely because of it's great reliability record and I liked the style.

The Tonaro has not had the same quantity of sales but it seems all those who have purchased one have been rewarded with a very reliable mount for a very modest outlay.

I agree with Tillson that a few kilos makes little difference. Sometimes I'm loaded with well over 10kg, with my panniers fitted, and find I quickly adapt and the riding experience is still very enjoyable.

There are bikes like the Optibike which cost well over £5000 with top componenets all round but not many of us can afford them and would you leave one parked outside your local tesco?

The styling may not be to everyone's taste but if your after a crank drive that's practical, capable and affordable with great back up service, it's hard to beat.

 

[eddieo]

OK. I like to think that I am open minded and receptive to other viewpoints and will accept, for the time being, that I may have lost the plot.

Could you put me back on plot by explaining how the fact that a bike shop near to where you live sells a bike wheel costing more than a Tonaro somehow makes the Tonaro an unwise choice of bike?

my point was that cycling is not a cheap hobby and decent bikes and equipment cost money. That are hardly any of you can be bothered to even test ride better specified e bikes says quite a lot I think. Many on here are are cheapskates in denial and delight in slagging of those of us who dont think paying a few bob on a bike unreasonable. There is a kind of inverted snobbery at play on this site and always has been.

and as for carrying pannier loads as a justification for not choosing a better, lighter bike is pure nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Yes, you don't need an expensive crank drive bike to have an enjoyable experience on a crank-drive bike. I'm just off for a ride on mine. I hope to do about 20 miles. The bike cost £15 from facebook ads; the motor was about £90 fron EVassemble; controller about £10 from BMSBattery; BMX chain from Ebay £10; Used 44v 10aH lios from Scotty for about£80. Total about £200 - and it has a throttle! See you later.

 

[eddieo]

Funny guy.....And there is the crux of the matter. Since when has 2K been considered expensive for a bike... Not on any bike forum/E bike forum or bike shop I have been in....Or among my cycling neighbours or sons cycling friends. Hardly uncommon to see young people on 3-6k bike as they take their sport seriously and happy to invest n it. Fools are they......

 

[tillson]

my point was that cycling is not a cheap hobby and decent bikes and equipment cost money. That are hardly any of you can be bothered to even test ride better specified e bikes says quite a lot I think. Many on here are are cheapskates in denial and delight in slagging of those of us who dont think paying a few bob on a bike unreasonable. There is a kind of inverted snobbery at play on this site and always has been.

and as for carrying pannier loads as a justification for not choosing a better, lighter bike is pure nonsense.

I agree that its always worth trying a range of bikes, but as some have already said, they have either tired or owned high spec bikes but decided that something like a Tonaro fulfils their requirements. If the bike does what you need it to do and you are happy with the way it looks and rides, isn't that all that matters.

However, I think that the British are generally greedy for a bargain and often fall into the buy cheap buy twice trap and I suppose the same can be said for ebikes. There is some cheap junk around and people do buy it. They then become disappointed and think that all ebikes are the same, which in turn reinforces their opinion that it isn't worth spending a great deal of money on the next one, if there is a next one.

Personally, I don't like the look of the Tonaro Bighit but it may appeal to others and if it does then £1200 for what appears to be a reliable crank driven bike with a throttle isn't bad. I don't think it could ever be described as junk and fall into the buy cheap buy twice category.

 

[Mussels]

my point was that cycling is not a cheap hobby and decent bikes and equipment cost money. That are hardly any of you can be bothered to even test ride better specified e bikes says quite a lot I think. Many on here are are cheapskates in denial and delight in slagging of those of us who dont think paying a few bob on a bike unreasonable. There is a kind of inverted snobbery at play on this site and always has been.

and as for carrying pannier loads as a justification for not choosing a better, lighter bike is pure nonsense.

Cycling can be a very cheap hobby but it depends a lot on:

• How far and often you ride.
• How much spare time you have to fix things.

I would class my 2008 905 as a budget bike*, it was great at first but as I piled the miles on lots of things broke and it needed a lot of maintenance. Buying the 906 as a replacement was well worth the extra cost but if I was only riding 50 miles a week I wouldn't notice the extra value as much.
We both have a need for reliability and a long time between failures and experience has shown us that budget bikes are a false economy but that isn't the case for everyone.
Weight doesn't really matter much to me as I usually have stuffed panniers which add 15Kg to the bike's weight anyway so 5Kg extra on the bike frame won't bother me much. For me the bike is purely a tool to get me and my kit to work, working out the most suitable bike is unfortunately all down to figures and the TCO including time spent fixing it.

That said the Bosch crank bikes look really good and if I have spare cash I'll probably buy one if I ever go back to working full time in the city. If I don't have spare cash then I'll be getting a new battery for the 906 and brushing the cobwebs off.

* For those not familiar with my old Wisper sagas the 905 has changed a lot since then and I think every fault I found was addressed and designed out of later models.

 

[Geebee]

Regarding a bike having to be expensive to be any good, you maybe the one being less realistic.

Before I proceed I admit to owning a bespoke racing trike worth the high end of the above mentioned prices, I also own several bikes that cost from $60 upward.

There is a significant increase in quality up to a point, from there tiny increases in quality cost a fortune compared to the improvements, so there is no need to spend a lot of money as long as you by at a realistic level, if you want a high end bike enjoy it but don't assume it is a requirement for reliability and an enjoyable ride for everyone else.

 

[eddieo]

Tillson,that is fine and I agree in general....But what irks is the Turdaro crew jumping on every thread promoting ad naseum what I and others consider a very poor choice, and criticising anyone else who spends more as being foolish. Also concerned with adding some balance of opinion to people new to the game and advise them to try before they buy especially with something like a Turdaro. if it meets there needs all well and good, but I am nor going to be bamboozled especially on a thread regarding best crankdrive bike available....and no I haven't got it either.

Mussels, 906 alpino a future classic, would have had one but to heavy for camper bike rack

Geebee, But quality shocks/gear sets/ hollow cranks etc etc..cost money and you dont get this refinement on budget e bikes. well specified, lighter bikes surely always a better riding experience. also well aware of the law of diminishing returns, and pretty sure I know when I need to stop spending

my new AVE was far from perfect, and I dont like the 10 speed SLX gear set at all....clunky in comparison to the XT on my kit bike. also had to spend over £150 on seat and thud buster to get it riding right, its now a lovely bike. will persevere with gear set for now but may well have to change that also