What is the best legal crank drive bike available?

[tillson]

What you must realise by now Eagle is that some people are born a***holes and others have it thrust upon them......sometimes I feel my urge to thrust something somewhere, takes some overcoming.....but...Im learning

funkylyn, you must remember that certain members are like Marmite, some people hate them whilst others would prefer them on the end of a knife.

 

[funkylyn]

funkylyn, you must remember that certain members are like Marmite, some people hate them whilst others would prefer them on the end of a knife.

ROFLMAO...funny that Tillson, now I come to think of it...I HATE marmite and have an ever growing penchant for sharp knives

Lynda

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The Impulse unit is not connected with Panasonic, it's Kalkhoff's own motor unit based on the German Daum one which was released some while before the Bosch. Kalkhoff are selling bikes with a choice of all four crank drive units, Panasonic in 26 and 36 volt versions, their own Impulse and the Bosch.

Yes, sorry, I'm getting mixed up. The one I had a go on was the 36v Panasonic on an Emotion of some sort.

 

[geostorm]

I have never seen a Tonaro CLOSE UP but in the photos the set up reminds of tha TGA electrobike, of which they used a truck windscreen wiper motor unit, just an observation comment, please accept as..



Ezee Forza

 

[hech]

Am sorry but cannot resist the urge to throw in my tuppence worth in a good old tonaro mud slinging match. The controller is rated at 7amps with a max of 15amp. It is rated so presumeably to ensure certification as a 250watt machine. However on a hill the wattmeter reads well over 600 watts ie 40v*15amp. Powerpedals should be applauded for introducing this decent enough crank drive to the uk market at a time when all other crank drives were (and remain) ridiculously overpriced. Kudos should be applauded for trying to do the same and smash the evil threat which is the Bosch price fixing cartel.

 

[mike killay]

I have never seen a Tonaro CLOSE UP but in the photos the set up reminds of tha TGA electrobike, of which they used a truck windscreen wiper motor unit, just an observation comment, please accept as..



Ezee Forza

Well here is an Enduro

 

[geostorm]

Thanks for this looks nice bike must try one sometime.

 

[funkylyn]

Thanks for this looks nice bike must try one sometime.

Thats ma boy lol.........always nice to keep an open mind

( NB Tonaro owners..........." Possible future Tonaro convert alert " !!!!! )

Lynda

 

[eddieo]

eddio,



I am pleased that you are enjoying your new ave mh7.

Opinions are like like rectal orifices, everybody has one and you are entitled to your's.

However, that does not give you the right to be unpleasantly derogatory about somebody else's choice of electrical bike.

Vive la difference and all that.

Exactly..... but the Turdaro term came about because of certain very vocal members on here behaving childishly when I introduced a new kit bike on here last year. Some good at handing it out but don't like it back.....anyway the bike is junk and the name fits perfectly

I saw a very nice new 36 V Swiss Flyer on holiday...it was a step through and about £2000 in Germany. Sorry but not suitable for throttle junkies, but a proper beautiful E bike...

so in answer to the question "what is the best crank drive bike available" I would say one fitted with the new 36V Panasonic system going by what I have read.....

 

[Scimitar]

Exactly..... but the Turdaro term came about because of certain very vocal members on here behaving childishly when I introduced a new kit bike on here last year. Some good at handing it out but don't like it back.....anyway the bike is junk and the name fits perfectly

I must stand back in amazement at such a shining wit.

 

[mike killay]

Exactly..... but the Turdaro term came about because of certain very vocal members on here behaving childishly when I introduced a new kit bike on here last year. Some good at handing it out but don't like it back.....anyway the bike is junk and the name fits perfectly

I saw a very nice new 36 V Swiss Flyer on holiday...it was a step through and about £2000 in Germany. Sorry but not suitable for throttle junkies, but a proper beautiful E bike...

so in answer to the question "what is the best crank drive bike available" I would say one fitted with the new 36V Panasonic system going by what I have read.....

Eddio,
I don't think you know what you are talking about.
Anyway, you said it, now prove it.
Exactly what is 'Junk' about the Tonaro?
I have one, so has my son. They are well and strongly built, they have standard components, they are powerful, (600watts up hills, see Hechs latest) and best of all, they deliver the power when and as you want it, not in some over complicated, restricted way.
They are sensibly priced, not some Germanic aspirational pricing.
If you look back, Panasonic entered the EU market hampered by Japanese laws, so they had too much electronics to cope with those laws. Gradually, they realised that this weak underperforming system would not suit Europeans.
Bosch marched in and in order to shoulder Panasonic aside produced a mirror product, again too much electronics, but needed to push Panasonic out.
What you continually praise is in fact a compromise product.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

so in answer to the question "what is the best crank drive bike available" I would say one fitted with the new 36V Panasonic system going by what I have read.....

You should go and try one, then you'll probably change your mind.

 

[eddieo]

Your a nice guy Mike but I know very well what I am talking about.....How you can pull an arbitrary price point of around £1000 out of the air and say that is enough to pay for an E bike and use that to justify criticising German pricing as being aspirational is a very convenient and irrational way of thinking IMO. If you want nice things, they cost money and 2k on an E bike is hardly a lot now is it...That you are happy with your choice all good and well, but to try and say the Turadro is best crankdrive bike out there is laughable....

I also doubt Bosch had any intention of damaging anyone, simply saw a gap in the market for a strong light e bike system and went about designing, building and getting them out there. 40+ manufacturers and well over 400 different models says quite a lot dont you think. You can get them for about £1500 on german ebay so hardly in Testarossa territory

 

[eddieo]

You should go and try one, then you'll probably change your mind.

I've tried the Flyer X type and that was the earlier version and nicest bike I have tried but that was on the flat. I usually get to try them at german motorhome show and missed it this year as just back from holidays today. But the new 36 V Panasonic unit getting very good reviews but it is expensive...have you tried it? I'm not talking about the impulse.

More then happy enough with Bosch for now, but have my eye on a new German system so may swap the Daahub next year....The Bosch is very efficient in battery usage in comparison to my hub motor bike

talking about hub motors. have you seen the new Panasonic hub motor as fitted to this KTM bike

http://www.technik.x4biker.com/ktm-pedelecs-2013-mit-neuem-panasonic-nabenmotor.html

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.ebike-news.de/neuentwickelter-panasonic-heckmotor-chm-ktm-zeigt-erstes-s-pedelec-erace-p650/1945&prev=/search?q=KTM+eRace+P650&hl=en&biw=1152&bih=632&prmd=imvns&sa=X&ei=lmxPULvnLuW60QX9gYHYAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCoQ7gEwAQ

 

[mike killay]

Well, that is your opinion.
Have ever ridden a Tonaro?
You are quite prepared to use the word Turdaro, which I find hurtful.
You say that Tonaro is not in the same 'League' as Bosch and Panasonic, but give no reasons.
You say that Tonaro is junk, but give no reasons, just that you are prepared to spend heavily on 'nice' things. Well, I find the Tonaro a nice thing and so do many others.
I have not ridden a Bosch bike, but other than the high price, I am not prepared to rubbish them.
However, when it comes to price, as a matter of principle, I always question prices.
If as you say, Bosch systems are available for £1500, then that seems to be reaching reasonable territory, but still far too expensive for many.

 

[funkylyn]

Personally I have always believed the nicest things in life are free, Im sure you will agree Mike....and I wouldnt let a lack of respect and childish language hurt you....just ignore it.....some people seem determined to show themselves up in public.

I bet some of these Bosch drive bikes are really good Mike, one of these days I will try one,just for fun, but meanwhile, like you, Im happy to enjoy my Tonaro......and hasnt the weather been great recently for getting out and about.....I hope it lasts

I am just planning my next trip away....temporarily postponed due to three rampant Pomeranian girls and one poor frustrated dog LOL

Lynda

 

[eddieo]

Says you its a high price from £1500 upwards?

I'm sorry that you take my comment personally and find them hurtful but a bike is an inanimate object and you need to get my comments in perspective, as I have already tried to explain. I also found similar comments about my new bike last year hurtful, when I was trying to share how good a system I thought it was. And all some on here could come up with was that it reminded them of a dildo.

Again...I have said it before, and dont want to get involved in repeating myself. I saw a Turdaro in a shop recently but pointless trying something I have no interest in as it hardly registers as a "bike" in my book

 

[Kudoscycles]

Eddie,as you know I rode the AVE-MH7 at last years cycle show and myself and my senior engineer remarked that it was very quick,powerful and generally nice to ride. But it would be a very difficult bike for a retailer to stock,the market for such a bike is very small.
Most people who buy these small 20" bikes want them to fold,the MH7 is fixed frame.
A lot of these bikes are bought by ladies who want an easy stepover,that relatively high crossbar would not suit most ladies.
These small bikes are often bought as second or third bikes and need to be low price to fulfill that role,the price around £2k would be above most peoples idea of costing of a small wheeled bike.
These small bikes are often bought by couples for motorhome usage and often sold as a pair,typically the budget is £1500 for the pair,£4k is just too much money.
It's a shame because I personally like the bike but it's too niche to consider holding a stock bike.
We are very advanced on a 700c crank drive bike,I may look at producing a crank drive 20"folder,with low step through but I think the maximum commercial price point would need to be about £900 to achieve any sensible sales volume.
Dave
Kudoscycles

 

[indalo]

Says you its a high price from £1500 upwards?

Again...I have said it before, and dont want to get involved in repeating myself. I saw a Turdaro in a shop recently but pointless trying something I have no interest in as it hardly registers as a "bike" in my book

Eddie, welcome back to the UK and the forum but I'm bound to say I think you're wasting your breath here. You and I have long since agreed that the range of bikes in question are ugly, heavy contraptions only attributed superlatives by those who cannot aspire to the best machines at the pricier end of the market.

As you are aware, I don't get to see what a number of the correspondents say unless they appear as quotes in postings from those members whose opinions I respect. Judging by your response though, I can guess that there's still a merry little band of fanatical owners still talking up their prized ebikes while living in denial about the machines with premium price tags.

I'm reminded of the motor car situation many years ago when we had budget cars being imported from East Germany and the USSR as was, such as Wartburg, NSU and Lada. I knew lots of people who went out and bought them. Never did I hear anyone utter a bad word about them while they owned one yet nobody kept them very long. What those cars offered was basic functionality, half-decent reliability, (half-decent then was a huge improvement over some of the British, French and Italian fare we had been served up for years!) and the kudos of owning a brand-new car rather than another 2nd-hand job.

The reason so many people got rid of them was that, while they offered remarkable VFM in their day, they were actually rubbish to drive and an aspirant generation just wanted a bit more than what was in fact, rather crude, undesirable, utilitarian transport in those heady days of the 1970s. I can think of two cars in particular which changed people's thinking about desirable cars without paying out Ferrari money. One was the Ford Capri and the other, the VW Golf GTi.

My allusion is hardly exact but there are similarities in as much as some owners of these rather ordinary ebikes hype them up way beyond their talents in much the same way as Lada owners did 35 years ago. Yes, of course they offer good value for money but to suggest that they are the equal or better than the expensive machines from the likes of Kalkhoff and the endless list of German machines now offering Bosch power is simply ludicrous. Those with a decent measure of disposable income and who appreciate a bit of quality will always opt for the quality product and will happily pay the money. I'm absolutely certain that all owners of these over-hyped machines would, if they could afford it, ride something just as capable or more capable, more attractive, more desirable, much lighter and laden with 1st class components; something built to last indeed. It works that way with unassisted bikes.

If the Tonaro is the ebike we should all aspire to, then we are all doomed in some kind of perverse race to the bottom.

My advice Eddie is just ignore it and let them all bullshine each other.

Indalo

 

[Kudoscycles]

I have never seen a Tonaro and never ridden one but personally speaking I have a dislike of these mini moped style of machines,note I have avoided the word bike. The Tonaro,Ebco Eagle,Ultramotor(Hero) all have this style,they tend to be very heavy because the traditional bike triangle is still the most efficient frame and any deviation from that shape tends to add weight. I have ridden these machines at shows and find their performance surprising given the heavy weight and only 250 watts power,they seem more natural to ride motorcycle style a la throttle,without power they are normally awful to pedal,I would say almost unridable.
In China these are the most popular form of e-bikes,normally very high power,the only purpose of the pedals is to rest your feet,no chinese teenager would ever dream of pedalling. The high accident rate of these machines has caused the chinese government to enforce the speed and power limits and in some cities introduce a temporary ban,to my mind these mini electrical mopeds are the latest derivatives of the 40 kg plus chinese machines. Bicycles in China are considered peasants transport so these machines must look as different as possible to bicycles but with the growth of a sophisticated middle class the perception towards high quality sports bikes is changing,hence the reason that KTM,Scott etc have strong presence at chinese cycle shows but not yet bicycle style e-bikes.
For me a pedelec or e-bike should still look like a bicycle and handle as close to a sports bike as possible and this will influence many of the future Kudos models.
Respect that these are my personal opinions and I respect that beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Dave
Kudoscycles