C
Cyclezee
Guest
As a relative newcomer I wouldn't expect you to know better
They were excellent bikes and the forerunner of the modern generation of crank drive electric bikes.
Well, I have just gone and done it - Kalkhoff BS10 ordered today
- Thread starter flapajack
- Start date
They were excellent bikes and the forerunner of the modern generation of crank drive electric bikes.
Agreed it's not exactly the same, but issues such as insurance are a matter for the customer, not the dealer. Therefore in respect of illegal use, the two cases are the same where dealers are concerned.
Mini-Motos and powered pavement scooters are other examples that cannot be used legally, but can be sold legally.
There are other areas where similar issues arise, air rifles for example. I use a legal one that is within the 12 lbs pressure limit to avoid gun licencing, but the sellers of these also sell much higher pressure atmospheric and gas charged guns which can easily be lethal to humans. In law these need gun licences, but few bother with that. I don't hear a public outcry on the morality of those gun dealers, only calls for tighter regulation.
I don't approve of the sale or use of e-bikes that don't meet the legal requirements, but recognise that those who sell them are doing nothing wrong. So as said, we should not criticise the morality of S bike sellers if we are not consistent in all other similar cases. A better way to express disapproval is to ask the legislators to make the sale of S class bikes to any UK resident illegal and thus remove the possibility of a problem arising. The same removal of availability could apply to Mini-Motos and powered pavement scooters.
And still the best e-bike to ride without power, nothing I've tried since remotely matches the Lafree Lite in that respect.
Eric Schlosser best selling of Reefer Madness, Fast Food Nation should do a book on the dodgy pedelac scene… sensationally called Pedalling e-crack or Pedelecphiles or sumfiink.
True Flecc but while selling of s pedelecs does not bother me, what does is when customers are not informed of their status which happened recently to someone on here.
Regarding other examples others may argue their moral status but at least the guns can be licenced and used legally (even if people do not do it). The problem at the moment is that s pedelecs can not be used legally on public roads as insurance is not possible which is why many question it morally. Type approval appears possible though again no-one seems to have tried this.
After all how many people have access to land where the public does not have access?
Until the law changes (similar to German laws) it is unlikely anything will change and knowing the UK I can not see the law changing soon. Look how long we are waiting for them to move in line with Europe on 250watt legislation.
Regarding other examples others may argue their moral status but at least the guns can be licenced and used legally (even if people do not do it). The problem at the moment is that s pedelecs can not be used legally on public roads as insurance is not possible which is why many question it morally. Type approval appears possible though again no-one seems to have tried this.
After all how many people have access to land where the public does not have access?
Until the law changes (similar to German laws) it is unlikely anything will change and knowing the UK I can not see the law changing soon. Look how long we are waiting for them to move in line with Europe on 250watt legislation.
Yes, I'm quite sure the DfT will never approve German style S class bikes here. They've already been emphatic about their opposition to any more speed or power.
Even if a miraculous change of heart happened, knowing the UK's record the accompanying restrictions would be very similar to all the moped regulations and make them very unattractive.
After all, if a CBT is required for 30 mph mopeds, they would probably require it for 28 mph pedelecs.
Even if a miraculous change of heart happened, knowing the UK's record the accompanying restrictions would be very similar to all the moped regulations and make them very unattractive.
After all, if a CBT is required for 30 mph mopeds, they would probably require it for 28 mph pedelecs.
Actually you get round the CBT if your licence (car) is pre February 2001 as you are able to ride a moped upto 30mph without the CBT. I imagine a lot of customers would fall into this category.
True, I've often pointed this out, but as time moves on the numbers benefitting are reducing. The younger element are possibly more likely to be attracted to S class bikes so less likely to qualify. Already someone who passed a car test at 17 would have to be at least 30 years old now, and only a few have got full car licences at 17 in recent years due to the prohibitive cost of insurance situation.
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Our government are happy to take the VAT on these illegal bikes along with taxes from the seller.
If it is ok to sell and buy them legally, then why should one expect it to be illegal to use. Especially after donating our 20%
If they do not wish these to be used, then don't take the money.
Does anyone know why we haven't signed up to EN15194...I cannot see anyone against it....how difficult is it to put a signature on a bit of paper...everyone else has signed up to it,what makes us Brits so special on this one?
KudosDave
KudosDave
Its the same as with the instructions that accompanied the EU type approval legislation on two and three wheelers, 2002/EC/24 Dave. That told us to alter existing legislation where it conflicted by 10th November 2003, which meant altering the UK's EAPC legislation to allow 250 watts instead of only 200 watts.. Now, 11 years later that still hasn't been done and we are told it may happen in 2016, thirteen years late.
Every other EU country managed it on time many years ago, that's the price of our hopelessly ineffectual UK civil service and government.
I made a comment on this thread previously and I keep reading, yet not understanding this: Why are so many contributors attempting to find justification for criminality?
The regulations applicable to EAPCs aren't fuzzy; they are crystal clear so I cannot understand why certain people feel the need to act criminally, jeopardising the freedoms for which many, many others are grateful.
If those who feel their need for greater speed or power cannot be satisfied by legally-powered ebikes, why don't they simply buy something appropriate to their needs? There are hundreds of scooters and motor-cycles from which to choose.
I suspect the liars, cheats and apologists who contribute to these pages with their support of illegality are probably exactly the kind of people who care little about, (and probably contravene), other rules, regulations and laws, designed so that we may all live in a civilised society.
The premise that we live in a free society does not entitle anyone to do anything they please. One is free to do as one pleases within that framework of laws, rules and regulations. Operating outside those civilised norms is unacceptable to decent people and it is a selfish delusion to believe that one can determine unilaterally which laws to obey and which can be ignored or flagrantly broken.
There is simply no point arguing the minutiae of EAPC law as applicable in the UK or most of Europe; the law is the law and those who passionately believe it should be changed need to make their case in the proper forums rather than web forums. That a number choose to act criminally rather than actually attempt to win over the lawmakers through intelligent argument, speaks volumes about their character in my view.
The truth is that the criminal element would fail to persuade even the law-abiding, decent people who read these pages let alone the people who have power and influence such that regulatory change could be brought about.
Tom
The regulations applicable to EAPCs aren't fuzzy; they are crystal clear so I cannot understand why certain people feel the need to act criminally, jeopardising the freedoms for which many, many others are grateful.
If those who feel their need for greater speed or power cannot be satisfied by legally-powered ebikes, why don't they simply buy something appropriate to their needs? There are hundreds of scooters and motor-cycles from which to choose.
I suspect the liars, cheats and apologists who contribute to these pages with their support of illegality are probably exactly the kind of people who care little about, (and probably contravene), other rules, regulations and laws, designed so that we may all live in a civilised society.
The premise that we live in a free society does not entitle anyone to do anything they please. One is free to do as one pleases within that framework of laws, rules and regulations. Operating outside those civilised norms is unacceptable to decent people and it is a selfish delusion to believe that one can determine unilaterally which laws to obey and which can be ignored or flagrantly broken.
There is simply no point arguing the minutiae of EAPC law as applicable in the UK or most of Europe; the law is the law and those who passionately believe it should be changed need to make their case in the proper forums rather than web forums. That a number choose to act criminally rather than actually attempt to win over the lawmakers through intelligent argument, speaks volumes about their character in my view.
The truth is that the criminal element would fail to persuade even the law-abiding, decent people who read these pages let alone the people who have power and influence such that regulatory change could be brought about.
Tom
Give us a break with this sanctimonious claptrap!I have never been a religious man but something i seem to remember from scripture lessons was "let him who is without sin cast the first stone"
Your (presumably) considered reply is standard fodder from those in the non law-abiding minority at the fringes of decent society. I guess you have nothing intelligent to say on the matter so you resort to religion in an attempt to identify anything which might offer some comfort in your mind for being what you are.
Tom
Tom
"I suspect the liars, cheats and apologists"
Are you talking of those who actually still have a mind of their own?
"I suspect the liars, cheats and apologists"
Are you talking of those who actually still have a mind of their own?
This is like listening to Iggy Pop's opinion on The CERN Particle Accelerator.
Now I have been branded a criminal I have amended my signature. I suggest all the other criminals identify themselves in the same way so that newbies know that they should steer clear of us.
Last night on my way home I drove in excess of 30 mph <33 to be exact> I had a screw driver in my glove compartment and failed to put my seatbelt on straight away, I drank a can of diet coke while sitting in traffic and parked on double yellow lines to draw out some money I also notice I have failed to tell the DVLA that I changed my address 2 years ago. Can you add me to that list of lawbreakers
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