Well, I have just gone and done it - Kalkhoff BS10 ordered today
- Thread starter flapajack
- Start date
Mopeds don't have to have indicators or a dipping headlight, but front and rear lights and speedo are necessary and these have to match the performance measurement requirements.
I'm not aware of anyone managing to register an otherwise illegal e-bike as a moped, but an S class bike as it stands cannot be registered. Here's the EU countries classification reason, which includes the UK of course:
Currently a 'S' class bike is a 1LE-A and a moped is 1LE-B. In the UK as it currently stands you cant register a 1LE-A only a 1LE-B type approved bike.
Therefore an S class bike will have to be modified to match all moped requirements to be registered.
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Cars are driven faster than the law permits on a mega scale in all areas. On motorways when I travel at 70mph...the legal limit...90% of cars pass me....the police choose to ignore it..it is still illegal. The point is most illegal pedelecs can't even keep up with an average club rider and even on one of Tims S class ones you would still find it difficult. I am all for leaving the speed limits for pedelecs the same because if you up the speeds there will always be someone who wants on even faster one. Just apply the same rules as the police apply on motorways for cars.
If somebody rides too fast in the wrong conditions and is a danger then throw the book at them..and the that applies to any cyclist which has been done recently.
Col to briefly interrupt I posted a question in another thread > http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/bosch-nyon-performance-system-sat-nav-for-2015.15491/
"Quick Question from the blurb about the (Bosch Nyon Performance System) where it states: "You can also set the eBike motor’s assistance models to suit you"
In the marketing vid is shows the bike accelerating from 21.0kmh and then at 24.9kmh (15.4mph) an important incoming message (conveniently?) interrupts the display.
Are these controller assistance models predefined within legal parameters or can you, under the bonnet, go for broke? ;-)"
"Quick Question from the blurb about the (Bosch Nyon Performance System) where it states: "You can also set the eBike motor’s assistance models to suit you"
In the marketing vid is shows the bike accelerating from 21.0kmh and then at 24.9kmh (15.4mph) an important incoming message (conveniently?) interrupts the display.
Are these controller assistance models predefined within legal parameters or can you, under the bonnet, go for broke? ;-)"
Within the kit car industry is a guy who is an expert in the implications of registering motor vehicles...I have asked his advice as to the procedure for importing an S class bike into the UK and what is involved in registering/taxing/insuring it as a moped.
Having said that I find it surprising that anyone would want one...at £2k you are into nice motorbike territory,with no complications. It just seems that the only reason to buy such a bike is to use it illegally,if you try to make it legal all the advantages of an ebike(freedom to use it virtually anywhere,no tax/no compulsory insurance/no compulsory helmet etc etc). Those who buy these bikes really want 'their cake and eat it'. When I first came into the ebike industry I could see the need for more powerful motors above the offering at that stage but now there are so many legal and high torque bikes around it seems pointless to take the risk. I tried one of the 2015 spec Haibikes recently,it was fast,it seems that BH,KTM and Haibike are all trying to compete with providing legal EN15194 fast bikes ...Kudos/Woosh with BPM motors are not slow.
KudosDave
Having said that I find it surprising that anyone would want one...at £2k you are into nice motorbike territory,with no complications. It just seems that the only reason to buy such a bike is to use it illegally,if you try to make it legal all the advantages of an ebike(freedom to use it virtually anywhere,no tax/no compulsory insurance/no compulsory helmet etc etc). Those who buy these bikes really want 'their cake and eat it'. When I first came into the ebike industry I could see the need for more powerful motors above the offering at that stage but now there are so many legal and high torque bikes around it seems pointless to take the risk. I tried one of the 2015 spec Haibikes recently,it was fast,it seems that BH,KTM and Haibike are all trying to compete with providing legal EN15194 fast bikes ...Kudos/Woosh with BPM motors are not slow.
KudosDave
It is great that electric bike users enjoy all of these freedoms. In fact it's astonishing that this form of motorised transport is largely exempt from government interference, taxation, rules of the road and insurance. Add to this all of the places where you can use the electric bike, but not a moped or other form of motorised transport and the benefits keep on mounting up. This is a huge privilege when you consider the restrictions that other users of personal transport must adhere to.
A threat to all of the above is lurking and that threat is abuse. You will have seen it in the past. Something starts out as a minority issue and it is largely ignored. It then becomes more prevalent and then the issue becomes an annoyance to people or worse, a danger, accompanied by an increase in the number of accidents. It is then that the authorities react and that reaction largely affects only the law abiding.
I can see that an abundance of these 25 to 30 MPH electric bikes using cycle ways and other cycling facilities are going to cause an annoyance and there will be accidents and there will be a clamp down on electric bikes in general. Historically, this is the path that the abuse of freedoms has taken.
By selling ilegal bikes and actively encouraging their use you are jeopardising, "the unbeatable freedom of it all" which you claim to like so much. May I suggest that as a retailer proactively promoting the ownership and use of electric bikes that you are irresponsible, mercenary, untrustworthy and a complete fool. And that you and your business, 50 Cycles, is best avoided by anyone remotely concerned with the long term future of electric bikes.
Tillson, I think you would have us all live in a world like this
They do have to be "taxed", more correctly carry a VED disc. The difference is that an e-vehicle doesn't not have to pay that Vehicle Excise Duty, the disc is a gift to acknowledge the green credentials.
D
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Can anyone produce any record of anybody who's been prosecuted for having an electric bicycle (with pedals) that has too much power or speed? I keep searching, but I never find anything. No anecdotes please, only actual cases - date and court.
I disagree with this.
How many times have you read about a high powered supercars being crashed (ask Rowan Atkinson ;-).
Now, are there plans to restrict high powered motor vehicles in this country?
No, because there are already rules in place for those being irresponsible, just like there are rules for those using illegal ebikes.
Do not confuse a lack of enforcement with a lack of regulation.
No one is really bothered. Unless there is a fatality or serious injury, nothing will happen. And if a fatality or serious injury does occur, they'll just be dealt with under the existing "using an illegal motor vehicle" legislation, just the same as if they were riding an unregistered dirt bike on the road etc. They aren't then going to go on a witch hunt for the "legal" ebikers, just like they don't go on a witch hunt for all "legal motorcyclists" just because some local scrote has been tearing though the local park on his unregistered dirt bike.
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@ d8veh, interesting you should ask that. At the beginning of this thread i asked a client of mine who is a senior CPS lawyer if he could find out exactly what you asked and also what the CPS attitude is towards s pedelecs, likelihood of prosecution etc . I am seeing him on Monday so hope to have some information.
You could also do it formally via the present CPS Public consultation which is currently running up to 24th April. Don't forget to mention the now published comments of the case mentioned in this thread.
I don't think there has been any in the mainland UK. There have been two attempts that I've heard of which were abandoned before any court appearance, one being an attempt to establish that the power limit is 200 watts and not 250 watts.
I had heard mention of a successful case years ago against someone for using a 250 watts e-bike in Guernsey. There they used the EAPC style 200 watts legislation and it was also hinted that a dealer reported the offender as an act of spite against another trade source.
But I have no dates etc, and the Guernsey courts are rather different from those on the mainland.
I'm sure the chance of anyone being prosecuted in the UK is vanishingly small.
I just meant from a financial point of view but I take your point. Ah actually I was wrong, you would need to buy the disc holder !
Let's say for argument's sake, all the traders on this site say '**** it, let's all start selling high-powered ebikes'. Do you think that the 'chance of anyone being prosecuted' is going to stay 'vanishingly small' ?
It won't be listed under "using an illegal ebike" though, as that's not an offence. The offence would be "using an unregistered/untaxed/uninsured motor vehicle". How would you distinguish between an ebike and all the other vehicles?
You guys are missing the point....its an advertising standards issue....if you sell a bike(or potential moped) and tell a customer that to use it you can register/tax and insure it and if flecc is correct and you can't register/tax and insure it,then there are no grey areas the bike cannot be legally used on the road.
IF YOU WERE HONEST WITH YOUR CUSTOMERS AND TOLD THEM THAT THERE IS NO LEGAL WAY OF USING THESE BIKES ON THE HIGHWAY,I doubt anyone would buy one,if someone still buys one,the customer has bought it in full knowledge that their is no legal way of using it and,to my mind,that becomes their responsibility if they still buy one-but its hardly a strong selling line?
The registering as a moped appears a distraction,the feedback from my guy is also that it can't be done....Tim at 50 cycles seems the expert in these matters perhaps he can advise otherwise.
Dave
IF YOU WERE HONEST WITH YOUR CUSTOMERS AND TOLD THEM THAT THERE IS NO LEGAL WAY OF USING THESE BIKES ON THE HIGHWAY,I doubt anyone would buy one,if someone still buys one,the customer has bought it in full knowledge that their is no legal way of using it and,to my mind,that becomes their responsibility if they still buy one-but its hardly a strong selling line?
The registering as a moped appears a distraction,the feedback from my guy is also that it can't be done....Tim at 50 cycles seems the expert in these matters perhaps he can advise otherwise.
Dave
Ah, what would we do without the good old Daily Mail, probably buy toilet paper.
As I've said before, this is nothing to do with taking a morally superior attitude, it simply relates to recognising a good thing and doing the best we can to hang on to it. Abuse of a system or regulations nearly always results in unwanted and unwelcome regulation.
I am surprised that 50 Cycles have no interest in promoting the use of electric bikes within the framework of the law and choose instead to promote their ilegal use. If I came across any other business importing a product which is ilegal to use in this country I would avoid them. Their actions would say to me that this company isn't quite right, not only do they operate on the fringes of the law, they choose to operate outside of the law. This then raises the question: if they don't recognise the law which governs their business, how am I as a private individual going to fare if the product that I buy from them develops a fault? Will they just sweep me aside in the same manner in which they swept the law aside? Is disregard for the law, any law including consumer law, embedded within the DNA of 50 Cycles? If I were a potential electric bike customer, your contributions on here would make me feel very uneasy.
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