Thank you Kudos 4 Redbridge!

[Electrifying Cycles]

Was a good day and great to try a range of different bikes and meet some of you. Looking forward to future events there. Well done Kudos Dave!

 

[Meita]

I'd like to add my thanks, had a great afternoon out and really enjoyed myself!

Personally I adored the feel of the ride on the Ezee and was pleasantly surprised by the two Kudos (Eco and a MTB thing) I tried. Loved the Ansmann bike but can't afford it The Woosh Sirocco CD is great but given that I need a bike sooner rather than later, I'm not yet convinced it's great enough to be worth waiting for. Not too keen on the Tonaro Compy, and personally didn't like the Gocycle at all - Looks good, but I don't want to have to read a manual before setting off... I rode it in two separate modes, the first (city) gave me trouble when the automatic gear change didn't work quite as automatically as needed on the hill, meaning I slowed right down, meaning the PAS stopped and I was marooned. The other automatic gears bike I tried was the Momentum, which has Torq sensor at very reasonable price, but the two gears are just not enough for me and my hill.

Over all, a great event, very friendly atmosphere, and perfect timing for me (buying decision to be made imminently now). Thanks!

 

[trex]

I agree if they could sell it for £1500, it'll be a big hit. Some of their ideas are quite good - I like the hidden toolbox under the saddle and of course, the electronic gear shift. But many other ideas are hideously complicated. Look at this video and imagine you do this in London underground.

[video=youtube;sbo0VV3F0yA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbo0VV3F0yA&feature=youtu.be&a[/video]

Don't under-estimate it. It's been designed from a clean sheet, so that every part and system does what it should very well. Nearly everything is different. You couldn't take it to a bike shop to be fixed because the only normal bike parts are the pedals and brake levers. That's one of the reasons it functions so much better. If the price was £1500, they would take a massive share of the market.


The performance of all the Bosch-motored bikes is similar, so you choose the one with the style of bike and components that you want.

The Ezee Torq on the hills of the circuit, one of which was fairly steep, required about the same pedal effort as the Bosch-motored bikes, however, power delivery was much smoother and more predictable. If you rode all the bikes with blinkers so you couldn't see which one you were riding, the Ezee was for me the nicest.

A converted Dahon can't hold a light to the Gocycle for city commuting. When you try one, you'll see what I mean. Every feature of the Gocycle makes it more practical. Maybe it doesn't fold quite as tight, but still small enough to take on public transport.

 

[Cyclezee]

I'd like to add my thanks, had a great afternoon out and really enjoyed myself!

Personally I adored the feel of the ride on the Ezee and was pleasantly surprised by the two Kudos (Eco and a MTB thing) I tried. Loved the Ansmann bike but can't afford it The Woosh Sirocco CD is great but given that I need a bike sooner rather than later, I'm not yet convinced it's great enough to be worth waiting for. Not too keen on the Tonaro Compy, and personally didn't like the Gocycle at all - Looks good, but I don't want to have to read a manual before setting off... I rode it in two separate modes, the first (city) gave me trouble when the automatic gear change didn't work quite as automatically as needed on the hill, meaning I slowed right down, meaning the PAS stopped and I was marooned. The other automatic gears bike I tried was the Momentum, which has Torq sensor at very reasonable price, but the two gears are just not enough for me and my hill.

Over all, a great event, very friendly atmosphere, and perfect timing for me (buying decision to be made imminently now). Thanks!

Hi Meita,

It was nice to meet you yesterday and thank you for your comments about the eZee Sprint 8 that you rode.

As I mentioned, we have one with special artwork designed by Ann Rosat, the Swiss designer and artist which you may like, bearing in mind your native country.
Please see the photo below

 

[baldylox]

Yup, slightly blown away by the Gocycle (how quick were they?!), Also very impressed with the Panny hub driven KTM from Kudos. I was so busy talking tech about the Haibikes (as they impressed with their build quality only to be disappointed with the slightly hyped performance in the hill climb) I didn't get the opportunity to chat to d8veh about his Rocky Mountain... it looked good though.
Excellent day, thanks to Kudos Dave and all who made it happen

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

All bikes with Bosch system are the same only difference is the bike specification and motor assistance provided by hub gear and derailleur options. Hub geared bikes provide up to 200% motor assistance and bikes with a derailleur 250% assistance from the motor. The latter is also more efficient at converting your effort to forward motion. We have a panasonic hub drive KTM in stock (eTour) very impressed with the bike. Really like the Gocycle G2 but for me if I was paying £2800 for a bike I would expect a larger battery and the ability to take the battery off the bike to charge. Some nice touches but some things I would also like to have such as a speedo at the very least. However no doubting it is a nice bike! Likewise missed d8veh but there is always next year

 

[Taff]

All bikes with Bosch system are the same only difference is the bike specification and hub gear and derailleur options. Hub gears provide up to 200% assistance and derailleur 250%. The latter is also more efficient.

For the uninitiated these 2 statements (if correct) are worth their weight in gold.
People who in the 'know' never really understand how little is known by the people whe aren't... Like me.

Can I press you for some clarification re. The following.
I think BH Neo range (not Bosch) offers up to 300% assist - how is that achieved?
Why is dérailleur more efficient?
Tony

 

[Artstu]

That does sound like they limit the power on the hub-geared bike, or they're factoring in the losses that do occur in a hub gear. It will be interesting to know which it is?

 

[Artstu]

View attachment 5427

These bikes did get good reviews, however that seat-post is exactly the same as on my £300 Cyclamatic.

 

[GaRRy]

For the uninitiated these 2 statements (if correct) are worth their weight in gold.
People who in the 'know' never really understand how little is known by the people whe aren't... Like me.

Can I press you for some clarification re. The following.
I think BH Neo range (not Bosch) offers up to 300% assist - how is that achieved?
Why is dérailleur more efficient?
Tony

Bad use of ths word assistance. Gears dont give assistance they just alter how far a bike travels for one revolution of the pedal. so what is being said is that for hub gears the top gear allows you to travel twice as far as the bottom gear and for derailer its 2.5 times as far.

Also statement is just not correct as I believe there are hub gears out there with up to 600% range (although very expensive) and for derailers 400% (with crank gears as well is not unsual). Im sure the more knowledgable on here will give exact figures.

Now assistance as in the electric motor is how much the motor does in relation to your effort so 100% assistance meand for each unit of effort you apply the motor also provides 1 unit. 300% = 3 units. This has nothing to directly to do with the gears althoiugh on a crank electric bike I guess it might do depending on how it is programmed.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

By efficiency I was referring to a well maintained derailleur being more efficient means of converted your effort to forward motion. It is well known that hub gears are less efficient at doing this. I was not talking about ratios of gears. Many have commented on this flecc etc. However if a derailleur is not well maintained then the efficiency drops. Hub gears are great if you want low maintenance cycling and the ability to change gears without the pedals moving.

Article below details efficiency loss with hub gears on a bike
Gear Hubs vs Derailleur | Hubstripping.com

In terms of assistance. The Bosch has two different levels of assistance one set up for bikes with a derailleur which can handle more force and another one for bikes with hub gears. The max is 200% for hub gears and 250% for derailleur. The former figures relate to assistance provided by motor i.e. 2.5 times your effort, apologies if this was not clear from first post. Although it now appears 250% version is only available on speed version (45km, illegal one). Will check if this is correct.

 

[RobF]

There's some confusion about maximum assistance levels from the Bosch system.

The latest factsheet from Bosch shows 200% available with hub or derailleur gears from the 'Cruise' unit - the 25km/h legal one.

Assistance of 250% is available - derailleur gears only - from the 'Speed' unit - the 45km/h illegal one.

http://www.bosch-ebike.de/media/ebike/dokumente/Factsheet_ENG.pdf

 

[Geo13647]

Did anyone get a chance to ride a Woosh Zephyr CD at the weekend?
Really interested in this, but cannot find any reviews. Any impressions please?
Thanks muchly. George...

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

My input was based on 2013 Bosch manual and information in our KTM catalogue which is in German so might explain confusion. Will find out if this is correct but I am sure you are right as that is on Bosch website.

 

[RobF]

I was my input on 2013 Bosch manual and information in our KTM catalogue which is in German so might explain confusion. Will find out if this is correct but I am sure you are right as that is on Bosch website.

Just to add more confusion, I believe at one time Bosch did spec different max assist levels for hub or derailleur on the less powerful crank drive.

This suggests there must have been two versions of the less powerful crank drive, or perhaps the same drive configured to offer either 200% or 250%.

But it looks to me that Bosch now only offer 200% on the less powerful one.

 

[Taff]

There's some confusion about maximum assistance levels from the Bosch system.

The latest factsheet from Bosch shows 200% available with hub or derailleur gears from the 'Cruise' unit - the 25km/h legal one.

Assistance of 250% is available - derailleur gears only - from the 'Speed' unit - the 45km/h illegal one.

http://www.bosch-ebike.de/media/ebike/dokumente/Factsheet_ENG.pdf

This is a very good fact sheet. Later down the pages it says 250% on Turbo setting.

 

[Taff]

Article below details efficiency loss with hub gears on a bike
Gear Hubs vs Derailleur | Hubstripping.com

Good to read. Forum should have a page for articles like this... or maybe it does.

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Useful to use search functions to find information like this though not always easy to find previous posts with info your looking for. We all learn from each other, one of the great benefits of the forum!

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Also I am sure Bosch 2012 was up to 250% assuming quoted amounts were correct? That was the figure in the 2012 manual and on several websites as well.

http://www.bosch-ebike.de/media/ebike/dokumente/Flyer_Bosch_eBike_System_en.pdf
Info above shows 2012 Bosch has up to 250% assistance.

 

[RobF]

Just to confuse matters even more, this table appears in the Bosch handbook supplied with my Rose snob bike: