Stupidity of other road users

[flecc]

Happens to me regularly in a London borough Hooligooner, but I use a mirror and it gives me advance warning of when it's likely to happen. Even when they don't indicate they can be observed slowing a little on approach behind so the warning is still there.
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[WALKERMAN]

Near miss

About six weeks ago I was cycling along a quiet residential road and approaching a junction on the left where a motorist was waiting for me to pass. Suddenly a young woman in a small hatchback overtook me and did a sharp left turn into the side road. I had to brake hard and just missed hitting her rear door. The waiting motorist sat wide-eyed in disbelief and turned to watch her disappearing up the road. She must have seen me as I always have a Cateye Opticube rear light flashing even in daylight.
I can only assume that she was on a mobile phone. It was a scary moment.

As a child I still remember one very near miss after being overtaken by a car who wished to turn left at the next junction.

Well, 30 years later and only a week back into daily cycling I can confirm that this still happens.

I was on the fastest part of my commute to work, a short down-hill section on which I'm freewheeling up to 25 mph, when a very large estate car cruised past already indicating left as he did so (thanks for the warning!).

Unfortunately for him he was turning into a car-park, so had no escape after I had controlled my skid and turned in after him.

Fortunately for him the first words out of his mouth were "Very sorry about that..."

 

[flecc]

About six weeks ago I was cycling along a quiet residential road and approaching a junction on the left where a motorist was waiting for me to pass. Suddenly a young woman in a small hatchback overtook me and did a sharp left turn into the side road. I had to brake hard and just missed hitting her rear door. The waiting motorist sat wide-eyed in disbelief and turned to watch her disappearing up the road. She must have seen me as I always have a Cateye Opticube rear light flashing even in daylight.
I can only assume that she was on a mobile phone. It was a scary moment.

This is a very sensitive area, but I've found that it's nearly always female drivers who do this. I don't think it's either bad manners or that they don't see us. I think it's more likely to be the well recorded researched fact that a high proportion of women have difficulty with speed and distance judgement due to the different way in which their brains work.

We cyclists are seen in that position approaching the junction, but it's perceived that we are at that position when they overtake to turn. The fact that we continue at the same speed while they are slowing, so we end up at the same point, is not adjusted for.

I remember one occasion when a woman driver was about to do this to me and I managed to catch her eye as she looked sideways on the final yards of approach. I therefore carried straight on and she was forced to stop at the left turn point for me to pass, the look on her face being one of complete bewilderment at me being at that point. Clearly she had been unable to adjust for the approach and differential speed factors.

I can only remember one occasion in recent years when a man has done this turn in on me, and that clearly an aggressive action.
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[Hooligooner]

Funny one this morning. I'm in the right turn filter lane about to make my maneuver when a hot head in a hot hatch cuts up the inside and takes the junction right over on the wrong side of the road, only to end up nose to nose with a rather irately driven lorry as I sailed serenely past. Voices were being raised, but not from my smiling mug.

 

[Mandy]

Hi All

Mmmmmm, well obviously as a woman I do not agree with Flecc's comments on Women drivers
Just click or paste the link below and you will see that Women drivers are the safest drivers. It is also a known fact that Insurance companies offer women drivers cheaper car insurance

BBC NEWS | Health | Hormones make women safer drivers

"Most of my near misses have involved male drivers who always seem to be in a hurry and take chances, whilst women drivers are less so and are often the one's that are far more courteous and cautious.

I think it is down to the individual's driving ability and not whether they are male or female and is not down to sex?

As for women cyclists regarding accidents? Well I don't do so bad, unlike some unfortunate male riders on the forum, it must be my brains ability to "Multi Task"
Good job I am a not a sensitive soul, eh?

 

[Phil the drill]

Oh dear, they're all at it.......

I don't know where to start on all this. I ride an electric bike to commute to work most days, when I don't have to go over 15 miles (my limit in a very hilly area), but mostly ride on very narrow steep country lanes. Main hazard is the unexpected vehicle coming round a blind corner, blocking the road. Cornish hedges on either side (they are made of granite 6' thick, with vegetation growing on top), and very slippery potholed roads limit your escape options. I have had countless near misses (and one really bad hit!). However, as a motorcylist (current, and for the last 35 years), car driver and walker, I'm loathe to lay blame on any one group. Cyclists flying round blind bends in the middle of these lanes are a constant threat to themselves (and other drivers, who really can't help but hit them), idiot car drivers going too fast (especially I'm afraid 'emmet' holiday makers) and tractors appearing out of concealed field entrances.......
In truth when in a car, cyclists can drive me mad (sorry, but its true, many are very arrogant) and the worst are the 'Victor Meldrew' generation. I know you won't like to hear it, but many of younger ones are OK, if handled with some respect (at least round here).
For me its the bloody ramblers who are the 2nd worst offenders, but the greatest threat of all comes from horse riders.... Meet one of these beasts in the middle of a steep narrow lane, especially if coming from behind and you can have a real headache. Ring the bell - the horse, which hasn't heard you coming gets spooked and well... lets just say its not pretty. Don't ring the bell and you run the risk of spooking it as you pass...... Random direction changes are common, and WHY do they always sh*t on the apex of a fast blind bend! . The number of unpleasant skids I've had here are huge. Forunately I have spent many years as an off road trials motorcyclist, and Im used to handling two wheels barely attached to the gravel, but there is a limit beyond which no-one should be expected to endure....Oh and if you think 'white van man' has an attitude problem, then you clearly haven't had many dealings with the horsey fraternity. I shudder at the thought. Forget the horn, take a shotgun, that's my motto.....Just remember to smile before you use it.........

 

[Phil the drill]

Well I don't do so bad, unlike some unfortunate male riders on the forum, it must be my brains ability to "Multi Task"
Good job I am a not a sensitive soul, eh?

I heard it said that it is only beacuse they are unable to prioritise.....

Cheers, PTD

 

[Mandy]

I heard it said that it is only beacuse they are unable to prioritise.....

Cheers, PTD

LOL!! Which part of the brain does that use?
Definition: "To put things in order of importance"
When cycling, be alert, use caution with sight and sound and most importantly use brakes when appropriate to avoid collision

 

[Footie]

.... the greatest threat of all comes from horse riders....

I have to say I agree with you. In fact, I have a real dislike of horses especially when on the roads. Here in 'sunny' Cornwall One never knows what creature one will find around the next bend, but of all the animals I have encountered on the roads .... (dog's, cat's, fox's, badger’s, pheasants, chicken's, owl's, deer, sheep, cow's, bullock's, emus) .... Horse’s are the one's I hate the most. They seem to have a thing for me and always freak out when I'm around. No matter how careful I am - I have lost count of the number of horses that have bolted or panicked across the road in front of me.
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[flecc]

I don't disagree on the greater care that women take Mandy, that's also a know fact.

As are the facts I stated, well researched, documented and internationally accepted. It's not a matter of one being better than the other, just that men and women are different.

And here's another uncomfortable fact, despite the greater care they take, women drivers are NOT safer, they are less safe. The government safe driving propaganda has only ever stated that women have less accidents, while conveniently ignoring the fact that women drive far lower mileages on average.

Here's the facts on accidents per 100 million km driven known to the British insurance industry and compiled by the government from their figures and police reporting:

For the 17 to 24 age group the male and female accidents rates are roughly similar.

From then until their late 50s, womens accident rates per 100,000 km average roughly 15% higher than mens and continue to rise relatively.

By their 70s, womens accident rates for that same average distance driven are 30% higher than mens.

The average rate for all age groups for men is 106, for women 125 per 100 million km.

In other words, apart from a youthful period where they are the same, most of their lives women drivers are more dangerous. The government knows this as well as the insurance industry, but the fact that women have less accidents due to much lower mileages was a convenient one for their safety propaganda.

It's the old lies, damn lies and statistics thing again, taking an unqualified fact and presenting it as an absolute, a favourite bit of political trickery.
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[JohnInStockie]

Not to disagree with the stats I have not seen, but it could be noted that its BECAUSE they are doing lower mileages that the accident rate is higher. Maybe if men were also doing lowere mileages then their accident rate would be the same.

Like riding a bike, you get more road sense the more you ride on the road, catch 22.

John

 

[flecc]

That's absolutely true John, and it's a point I've made myself in previous discussions on this issue. Over the last few decades women drivers mileages have been rising while mens have fallen by over 20%, leading to the possibility that they'll match at some time, at which time I wouldn't be at all surprised to find the accident statistics match as well. As I said above it's not about one being better than the other, merely that there are differences.

But it's better that one fact given by government in pursuit of road safety is not misrepresented as something which it isn't, hence my raising it every time the myth of womens greater safety as drivers is propagated.
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[john]

From then until their late 50s, womens accident rates per 100,000 km average roughly 15% higher than mens and continue to rise relatively.

I can believe that, but does this take into account the severity of the accident?
e.g. How would the rates compare for accidents where someone is hurt?

In my experience, women have more minor scrapes, reversing into gate posts and the like, but not so many serious accidents.

 

[flecc]

I can believe that, but does this take into account the severity of the accident?
e.g. How would the rates compare for accidents where someone is hurt?

In my experience, women have more minor scrapes, reversing into gate posts and the like, but not so many serious accidents.

Since they would not be calling the police for many of those incidents, and often not be claiming off their insurance, neither they nor the government's road research laboratory would learn of them. These statistics are for more serious types of accidents.

My experience differs very much from yours, and in this area the accidents women are involved in are frequently every bit as serious and often causing death. In fact I would dispute that there is any lesser effect from womens accidents, having seen not the slightest shred of evidence for that, but plenty of evidence to the contrary.
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[Mandy]

I don't disagree on the greater care that women take Mandy, that's also a know fact.

As are the facts I stated, well researched, documented and internationally accepted. It's not a matter of one being better than the other, just that men and women are different.

And here's another uncomfortable fact, despite the greater care they take, women drivers are NOT safer, they are less safe. The government safe driving propaganda has only ever stated that women have less accidents, while conveniently ignoring the fact that women drive far lower mileages on average.

Here's the facts on accidents per 100 million km driven known to the British insurance industry and compiled by the government from their figures and police reporting:

For the 17 to 24 age group the male and female accidents rates are roughly similar.

From then until their late 50s, womens accident rates per 100,000 km average roughly 15% higher than mens and continue to rise relatively.

By their 70s, womens accident rates for that same average distance driven are 30% higher than mens.

The average rate for all age groups for men is 106, for women 125 per 100 million km.

In other words, apart from a youthful period where they are the same, most of their lives women drivers are more dangerous. The government knows this as well as the insurance industry, but the fact that women have less accidents due to much lower mileages was a convenient one for their safety propaganda.

It's the old lies, damn lies and statistics thing again, taking an unqualified fact and presenting it as an absolute, a favourite bit of political trickery.
.

I beg to disagree I'm afraid
The link I supplied in my earlier post is the latest findings from the Bradford University regarding hormones and the safer driving of women.
Male drivers, particularly young male drivers can be a danger on the road, whereas a young female driver does not tend to drive in such an aggressive manner.

As for when a woman ages as you have well documented above, I am sure the male's driving abilities deteriorate with age also and have often come across older male drivers holding up the traffic, not knowing what they are doing or where they are going, often on a Sunday . these guys can often cause accidents but not necessarily be involved in one due to people wanting to get past

I think in years gone by when women didn't work or drive very much then it was probably considered they were less safe. It is in more recent studies which are not carried out solely by men that we should be taking note of
Also the amount of women drivers are increasing by the day due to equality in wages and therefore the car is accessable to all.
Best Regards
Mandy

 

[flecc]

By all means disagree with the facts of the recorded accidents that actually happen, and prefer your own local observations Mandy, but nothing of what you said above changes the accidents that actually happen. What your observations don't see is the fact that women on average drive around 40% less than mens annual mileage, but with an accidents total only about 15% less.

It was Bradford University which did a study (not facts), but I reported some facts on accident figures, not a study. I happen to think the knowledge of the combined police forces of Britain, the combined insurance companies and the government's own Road Research Laboratory is greater than yours about the accidents that happen, so I prefer to believe their recorded facts.

What I posted above supports the hormonal evidence. You see, I didn't say older women get worse as they age, I reported that they are 30% worse than men in their 70s, but that's because the men get safer as they age, due to the loss of the testosterone which drives their aggression in their younger years. It's the change in the men that gives rise to the widening gap, the women staying more consistent with age.

I repeat the accident rates which speak for themselves:

"The average rate for all age groups for men is 106, for women 125 per 100 million km."
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[Rab C Nesbitt]

D'ya feel lucky . . . ?

Hi all
I'veead this whole thread with interest - we've all had our "roadkill" days that's for sure.
Just a couple of things I'd be interested to have your thoughts on. I know there's a wee bit of debate on the women driver thing, but my beef is the 4x4 Chelsea tractors that every eejit in Glasgow seems to need to get little Jemimah to school. My gripe is that a great percentage of drivers of these things genuinely don't know how wide they are and will miss you by inches without knowing it. And risking the wrath of the female contributors, the majorty of my run-ins with them have been with female drivers (maybe it's just that they do the school run) - personally I would say to all purchasers of these beasts " certainly sir/madam, you can buy the new Super Duper Shogun Bigbeast but you'll have to resit your test in it because you passed your test in a Ford Ka which is a third of the size".

If you threw a set of keys to the majority of these 4x4 drivers and said - go and reverse that transit van up that lane (using mirrors only), how many would say, oh I can't drive one of them and also you can't see out the back?

Anyway, that's my rant over - keep up the good work. Oh one other thing - I remember that during the winter months, I used one of these pull up neck things that protects your nose and mouth on those sub zero mornings. I also wear a black woolly hat, so that all you can see is my eyes peeking out. I thought I had a cool ninja look until one of my workmates said I looked like a really poor terrorist having to attack on a bike. Maybe we should cultivate this look . . . on second thoughts, I just look stupid.
Never mind

Rab

 

[JohnInStockie]

Yes maybe you do look stupid Rab, on the other hand how unstupid would you look with Frost-bite in your top lip through not wearing one?

I wear a skulll cap under my helmet, clear sun-glasses, and a bandana across my mouth/nose in winter. The glasses get steamed up but the bandana stops my nose from freezing. This year I am definately buying a muff thingy.

John

 

[Phil the drill]

Yep, and you definitely won't regret it. I use a thin one in summer (stops sun burn / wind burn on the neck) and a thicker one in winter - for the obvious reasons. I started using them when motorcyling across India years ago, and haven't given up the habit back on the bike in the 'old country'.

Phil

 

[Hooligooner]

Women drivers

One point about women drivers. When a women has a crash I imagine she is most likely to hit a car driven be a man, so many more of them on the road and all that, so does that add to the male drivers accident tally also?