Prices of the electricity we use to charge

[saneagle]

No it's not, however many times you say it is, and that is a slightly more silly claim than those that say we have already exceeded 1.5 Deg C - at least they are slightly closer to the true value and we have had a year where it exceeded 1.5 Deg C recently.

Here is a graph of 5 year averages


View attachment 61766

Global Climate Highlights 2024 | Copernicus

This section looks at the global Climate Indicators for which data are available for all or part of 2023. For more details on each, visit the respective Climate Indicator page. The page will be updated in stages, as data become available.

climate.copernicus.eu

Incidentally the equilibrium climate sensitivity for a doubling of CO2 is 3 Deg C (range 2.5 Deg C to 4.5 Deg C)

How did they measure the global air surface temperature in 1850 and how do they measure it today?

After a 25 year career in measuring stuff and analysing data, when I see things like that, the first question I ask is about the measurement system. Was there a change to the measuring device? Is it measuring in the same way? Is the data sample being measured representative of what it was before? and things like that. 9 times out of ten, when things looked bad, they weren't. We spent a lot of time analysing data measurement systems to ensure that the results were reliable, repeatable and reproduceable.

Whenever I was set improvement targets by the boss, I could always exceed them without changing anything other than the data collection system. That was easy because I was in charge of collecting the data.

All I can say is that in my lifetime with my own measurement systems, I've seen no change in the weather and no sea level rise. I can remember all sorts of extreme weather. 1974/75 in Glasgow, it rained every day for 97 days in a row. In 1960 we had deep snow that lasted 3 months. In 1964, we had 104 mph winds in Southend. In 1975 in Glasgow, the sun came out in March and didn't go out until September. In 1976, when I went fishing in the River Wey, normally 30ft wide and 6ft deep, I arrived to find it empty. It was so hot in Guildford that I couldn't stand it, so I had to return to Glasgow. These days seem pretty calm by those standards.

I'm going to make a prediction. Within the next couple of years, this whole CO2 thing will be exposed as a hoax, then they'll switch to something else, like NO2, NO or rubber particles.

 

[Ghost1951]

No it's not, however many times you say it is, and that is a slightly more silly claim than those that say we have already exceeded 1.5 Deg C - at least they are slightly closer to the true value and we have had a year where it exceeded 1.5 Deg C recently.

Here is a graph of 5 year averages


View attachment 61766

Global Climate Highlights 2024 | Copernicus

This section looks at the global Climate Indicators for which data are available for all or part of 2023. For more details on each, visit the respective Climate Indicator page. The page will be updated in stages, as data become available.

climate.copernicus.eu

Incidentally the equilibrium climate sensitivity for a doubling of CO2 is 3 Deg C (range 2.5 Deg C to 4.5 Deg C)

I don't think I am wrong at all about what I said.

You MUST smooth the data because the data series is very spiky or noisy with significant yearly ups and downs. Taking the top figure of a series and saying that is the mean is wrong. All such noisy data are smoothed, or they should be unless the author is pushing an angle. We KNOW that the trend is upwards, but we also know that the data fluctuates from year to year. What will you say when pretty soon the annual measured surface temperature goes lower? Will it be, '"Oh - look, global warming has ended'?

Secondly, you might look at some other authoritative sources which have different figures. Take this one:

Global Surface Temperature | NASA Global Climate Change

Vital Signs of the Planet: Global Climate Change and Global Warming. Current news and data streams about global warming and climate change from NASA.

climate.nasa.gov

or this one:

Climate at a Glance | Global Time Series | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

Historical and spatial comparisons of local, county, state, regional, national, and global meteorological data to determine trends and patterns

www.ncei.noaa.gov

Yes the trend is rising.

No the mean annual temperature is not 1.5C above pre industrial levels.

Your own graph doesn't even show that figure which you typed. It shows around 1.3C. I predict it will spike down soon, and then it will go up again. That is what the entire history of the temperature data shows. Yes it is trending up, but what does that mean for life. End Times? Certainly not. The earth never had as much life as it had in the Cretacious and other very hot peiods when the temperature judged from fossilised forams in ocean sediments was at least ten centigrade warmer than now and co2 was massively higher. This was long before we came here and started messing with atmosphere. The earth can and does mess with that itself and thank goodness it does. It had no oxygen at all until about 2 billion years ago.

Incidentally the equilibrium climate sensitivity for a doubling of CO2 is 3 Deg C (range 2.5 Deg C to 4.5 Deg C)

Where are the measurements which show that? No one has seen such a situation have they? It has never happened., so it is a hypothesis only. It is not good practice in my opinion to publish a guess about the future without saying what it is - a guess. There are no measurements of that situation. It's a hunch. If someone has a hypothesis like that, the proper procedure is that you do an experiment where you set up the variables and measure the result. Since it is not really possible to contrive a world where you make such a change, this prediction is not provable or refutable.

You assert it as a fact. It isn't one.

Edit:

Thinking about smoothing, I just averaged the last five years (2019 - 2024) of the data shown on this page https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/monitoring/climate-at-a-glance/global/time-series

The mean comes out at 1.26C above the mean when starting the data series in 1850. Of course the problem of verifying the old data from way back when that Saneagle mentions is not being addressed.

 

[nigelbb]

It's time that social media laws treat them like regular publishers. When they can be sued for content on their platform they'll pay attention to accuracies.

I totally agree. This also means that we need to know the identity of users posting on Twitter or Facebook etc. Perhaps some ID check when you create your account? I am sure that the anonymity of social media allows people to be much angrier & provocative than they would be in a normal conversation.

 

[nigelbb]

The key word is "peer" in peer review or trial by peers. Who are the peers of the guy, who made that YouTube video? You seem to be saying that I'm not one of his peers. Is that correct?

I want to read his scientific paper when it has been reviewed by climate scientists not an amateur. Even a pre-publication before review would be a start.

 

[nigelbb]

Have a look at this, then tell me what you think. He goes through all the presently available technology and science to see what direct energy weapons could do. If science is too difficult for you, you can skip to the last few minutes to get the conclusion.
COULD SATELLITE LASERS REALLY DO THIS?...

Did you know that the Russians are boasting that 8 of the burnt homes worth a total of $90 million belong to Ukrainian generals. If it's not the Russians, I can imagine a few people that might want to start a fire just at the right time, just in the right place and just in the right conditions to wipe out that area of the USA, especially when you know that the local authorities have done everything they can to prepare for you, in the way of assuring success.

I pity you if you genuinely hold these crackpot ideas.

 

[lenny]

""Stubbornly high" gas prices had made it "more difficult to top up storage", the company added."

British Gas owner Centrica warning on storage will not affect supply, says network

Experts say the UK has enough gas after Centrica said storage levels were "concerningly low".

www.bbc.co.uk

'Obscene': Energy firms have posted £457bn in profits since start of energy crisis, study shows

Insulation and investment in renewables needed to end 'vicious cycle of bill shocks', End Fuel Poverty Coalition warns

www.businessgreen.com

 

[Peter.Bridge]

I don't think I am wrong at all about what I said.

You MUST smooth the data because the data series is very spiky or noisy with significant yearly ups and downs. Taking the top figure of a series and saying that is the mean is wrong. All such noisy data are smoothed, or they should be unless the author is pushing an angle. We KNOW that the trend is upwards, but we also know that the data fluctuates from year to year.

Agreed, which is why I included a graph of five year averages

Secondly, you might look at some other authoritative sources which have different figures. Take this one:

Global Surface Temperature | NASA Global Climate Change

Vital Signs of the Planet: Global Climate Change and Global Warming. Current news and data streams about global warming and climate change from NASA.

climate.nasa.gov

This graph shows the change in global surface temperature compared to the long-term average from 1951 to 1980.

Also on that page :

Overall, Earth was about 2.45 degrees Fahrenheit (or about 1.36 degrees Celsius) warmer in 2023 than in the late 19th-century (1850-1900) preindustrial average.

And 2024 was warmer than 2023, over 1.5 Deg C above the preindustrial average

or this one:

Climate at a Glance | Global Time Series | National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI)

Historical and spatial comparisons of local, county, state, regional, national, and global meteorological data to determine trends and patterns

www.ncei.noaa.gov

Sorry, what point were you trying to make with that link, if I click on it , it prompts me for parameters

Your own graph doesn't even show that figure which you typed. It shows around 1.3C. I predict it will spike down soon, and then it will go up again.

So the last point on my graph shows the 5 year average temperature anomaly between 2019-2024 (as you say around 1.3C) Next year will show the average 2020-2025. For it to go down, 2025 would need to be cooler than 2019, possible but not likely.

Where are the measurements which show that? No one has seen such a situation have they? It has never happened., so it is a hypothesis only. It is not good practice in my opinion to publish a guess about the future without saying what it is - a guess. There are no measurements of that situation. It's a hunch. If someone has a hypothesis like that, the proper procedure is that you do an experiment where you set up the variables and measure the result. Since it is not really possible to contrive a world where you make such a change, this prediction is not provable or refutable.

You assert it as a fact. It isn't one.

There are multiple independent lines of evidence for climate sensitivity being around 3 C

There is a whole section of it in IPCC AR6

https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg1/chapter/chapter-7/#7.5#7.5

Edit:

Thinking about smoothing, I just averaged the last five years (2019 - 2024) of the data shown on this page https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/monitoring/climate-at-a-glance/global/time-series

The mean comes out at 1.26C above the mean when starting the data series in 1850. Of course the problem of verifying the old data from way back when that Saneagle mentions is not being addressed.

Yes, so the average temperature anomaly for the years 2019-2024 is 1.26 C not 1 degree.

 

[saneagle]

I pity you if you genuinely hold these crackpot ideas.

You're giving me the impression that you have very little imagination and very little basic comprehension ability. Are you an NPC?

 

[Peter.Bridge]

How did they measure the global air surface temperature in 1850 and how do they measure it today?

There's lots of different teams and they use different methods. You would expect temperature anomalies to be highly correlated with other local weather stations and you can use algorithms to detect breakpoints and anomalous data.

There was a novel approach (see attached) by the Berkley Earth Surface Temperature team (led by a scientist that was sceptical of the current global temperature records and funded by organisations that were sceptical of global warming) which ended up with a near identical reconstruction to existing records (actually showed slightly more warming)

Everyone's Talking About The Koch Brothers-Funded Study That Proves Climate Change Is Real

www.businessinsider.com

 

[soundwave]

EARTH LAW IS DO AS YOU ARE TOLD OR GET BLOWN UP

for profit of course at tax payers cost

 

[soundwave]

wont even run me led strips for me robots

 

[Ghost1951]

Absolutely. Indeed I go as far as to say it is our only real problem



Affluence is the secret. It's easily seen that as a people get more affluent and their living standards rise, their birth rate falls dramatically and the breeding like rabbits stops. Indeed the wealthier countries often have falling numbers, even importing to maintain their populations.

Trouble is that making the expanding countries affluent implies sharing the world's wealth more equitably, which the dominant right wing is fanatically opposed to, viz the USA.
.

There is plenty here I agree with but I don't see ANY possibility or moral imperative to make ourselves poorer to bring up other countries to our level of affluence, where people sit about in the dirt.

I know this will go down like a cup of something disgusting with many, but it is what I and what most people would feel. Never mind that some here would gladly give all they have - let them do it. I'm not stopping them.

I don't say that we as individuals have entirely made our own wealth, but in this and other developed countries we have seen at least two hundred years of hard graft, risk taking and ingenuity applied to the economy. This has created masses of knowledge and development which is available free world wide, but we still see mass corruption, ignorance, strife and frankly counter productive terrible cultural norms which keep people poor and hopeless.

Nobody is stopping other countries from developing like China did - pretty much all on its own once the dead hand of communism was taken off the economy and businesses and individuals could operate freely. There is plenty to argue with about how China does lots of things - I use the example just to point out that the developed nations didn't come to China with a white saviour complex and hand them everything on a plate. The country and the people did it themselves.

So I don't agree with Flecc that we have to share our wealth in the way I think is implied. Africa has masses of minerals, huge potential for agriculture and business and nobody is hiding the means of development from the people who live there. In fact we have as a collective developed world sent billions and billions in aid and most of it looks to have been p iss ed up the wall.

Some say - ah - the problems are all about colonial days. Rubbish. Do they know what state of development there was in Africa generally when the colonial period began? It was utterly primeval. Also - we got out of there long ago in terms of exploiting the resources and we had only scratched the surface of extracting them. The Chinese are there now doing plenty of development. Why is any external force needed. Europe and America did their own development bit by bit over a couple of hundred years.

Ethiopia and Liberia were never colonised in any long term fashion. They are as badly off as the rest, indeed the later colonies were given their liberty from western management the wealthier they are today.

 

[flecc]

So I don't agree with Flecc that we have to share our wealth in the way I think is implied.

Giving wasn't what I was implying, indeed it's giving to the third world that has often created their problems.

But in many cases where they don't have a very long history of advancement and civilisation, as China has had for example, they do need help or guidance to eventually attain the higher living standards and affluence that cuts birthrates to replacement level or less.

Where that isn't possible as in the cases you envisage, including where their culture is self-destructive, we can only give up and hope they destroy themselves without taking the rest of the world with them by their behaviour.
.

 

[Ghost1951]

Giving wasn't what I was implying, indeed it's giving to the third world that has often created their problems.

But in many cases where they don't have a very long history of advancement and civilisation, as China has had for example, they do need help or guidance to eventually attain the higher living standards and affluence that cuts birthrates to replacement level or less.

Where that isn't possible as in the cases you envisage, including where their culture is self-destructive, we can only give up and hope they destroy themselves without taking the rest of the world with them by their behaviour.
.

It looks like I entirely misunderstood your earlier post.

There is nothing really i disagree with here. I am entirely NOT averse to helping any fellow human or animal come to that if it is needed, and if he is prepared to try to help himself.

I am regularly accused of being a racist here, by the terminally stupid, so I will tell you a little story.

About five years ago I was walking the dog in Newcastle late one night. It was around midnight. Up comes a young African lad of about twenty. He was obviously a very recent arrival which I judged from his clothing, and he later told me he had just come. He politely asked me where the metro station was and I began to tell him he was about a mile away from one and then I realised that the service had already ended. I told him this and asked him where he was heading for. It turned out it was a neighbouring town in the Tyneside conurbation about six miles from where we were. He asled me how to get there on foot and as I began to tell him, I thought no - I wouldn't want any of my sons lost and alone in a strange country wandering about a city at night with no idea where he was and little idea of where he was heading, so I took him to my house got out the car and drove him to the locality he had been given by someone. Unfortunately, the road he had been told to come to was about a mile long and we drove up and down looking for what he wanted to find. He got out and thanked me and I wished him well.

Racist? I don't think so.

Utterly intolerant of bad behaviour, and foul cultural values?

Absolutely.

 

[soundwave]

its the future ,not long now

 

[AndyBike]

View attachment 61768
wont even run me led strips for me robots

GTX 1060 ? Bloody hell thats an old one. Damn near clockwork

 

[AndyBike]

Racist? I don't think so.

Better not tell GB news that, or you'll be off their christmas list.

 

[MikelBikel]

How many of ye with leccy cars have been turned away by ferry companies?