Prices of the electricity we use to charge

[flecc]

Countries are not forced to join NATO.
They join because of the fear autocrats like Putin inflict on them.

They are not forced is correct, they are bribed by the USA with money, flooded with help, by EU membership promises. Between 2004 and 2008 when Putin finally lost his temper with Georgia and attacked, the USA had literally thousands of Americans in that country, steering and bribing them to be on course to join NATO

The nearer they are to Putin's Russia, the more they feel they need NATO.

If that were true Georgia, Ukraine, Finland and Belarus who were directly connected to Putin's Russia would have joined NATO some 25 years ago when they could all have been independent and EU applicants as well. In truth they all turned down the opportunity for one or both, three off them opting to stay aligned to Russia instead.

Russia can inflict a lot of deaths and destruction but can't win a war with NATO.

Which is why Russia is NOT a threat to the west, as I've already said.

There is no threat now, nor has ever been since the USSR was disbanded, so there was no excuse for the war mongering USA to continue to expand NATO and surround Russia's west and south.

The USA is the only reason there is a war in Ukraine, or the 2008 war in Georgia, proven since by Georgia now being still fully independent and more at peace at last, now the US NATO persuasions have been finally rejected by them. They can still apply to join the EU if they want to, Russia has made that clear.

Ukraine had that option too, but like fools chose to self destruct instead.
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[Woosh]

The USA is the only reason there is a war in Ukraine, or the 2008 war in Georgia, proven since by Georgia now being still fully independent and more at peace at last, now the US NATO persuasions have been finally rejected by them. They can still apply to join the EU if they want to, Russia has made that clear.

Ukraine had that option too, but like fools chose to self destruct instead.
.

I can't see that. Ukraine has already agreed not to join NATO before the war begin.
Putin annexed the 20% of Russian speaking Ukraine regardless.
Putin and Lavrov threaten the West with their nuclear arsenal if we as much as infringe their air space or supply Ukraine with long range rockets.
I can't see why you or I should doubt what Putin and Lavrov said about this, there is really no need to look elsewhere for possible reasons.
Any country with a sizeable ethnic Russians will have got the message and vote with their feet. No inducement is necessary.

 

[flecc]

I can't see that. Ukraine has already agreed not to join NATO before the war begin.
Putin annexed the 20% of Russian speaking Ukraine regardless.
Putin and Lavrov threaten the West with their nuclear arsenal if we as much as infringe their air space or supply Ukraine with long range rockets.
I can't see why you or I should doubt what Putin and Lavrov said about this, there is really no need to look elsewhere for possible reasons.
Any country with a sizeable ethnic Russians will have got the message and vote with their feet.

As ever you are looking at the present and ignoring what went before. Ukraine set itself on the NATO path as far back as 2004 and did not agree that they wouldn't join NATO before the war. Even shortly after the war started, the nearest Zelensky got to that was musing publically during a speech that "we may have to give up any idea of joining NATO", while continuing to appeal for NATO help. Not exactly convincing.

The time when Ukraine should have done the sensible thing and openly abandoned any idea of joining NATO was between 2004 and well before Russia's taking Crimea. But they didn't, instead trusting the Americans who now look like letting them down, just like they let down Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and Korea among others.

No inducement is necessary.

If no inducement was necessary, why were the American making so much effort and offering so much back then. It revealsthat you simply were not following this subject at the time or you would have seen exactly what I saw of the US activities back then and the huge numbers of American officialdom present in Georgia. They certainly weren't on their annual holidays. What they did do was prompt that 2008 invasion by Russia, causing misery as the USA always does with its interference where they have no such right.

This war will end in a hostile stalemate before too long, since Russia doesn't want it either and Ukraine will have to give up the fight as the West tires of it too. Russia's gain of 20% of Ukraine and all of the Azov sea ports and almost all of the Black Sea ports will be enough for Putin to claim victory and survive.
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[Woosh]

If no inducement was necessary, why were the American making so much effort and offering so much back then.

it is in the USA's interest to contain its enemies, so it puts money where its mouth is.
Biden did not abandon Ukraine. His reasoning is simple: USA provides the weapons, Ukraine manpower to eventually push Putin and his militarists out of the way. It's much cheaper than fighting directly with its soldiers even a limited war. It's Mike Johnson who is worried about his job as speaker of the house if he does not do Trump's bidding. Trump wants Biden to achieve as little as possible, especially a solution to the Border Patrols. He also needs Russian money and Russian computer hackers. In return, he has already signalled that he won't be in the way of Putin should he gets back in the White House.
Russia is no longer a super power since Gorbachev stopped the cold war. Putin still believes in the Russian empire and tries to punch above its weight with help from North Korea and Iran. With friends like them, he's losing influence with his neighbours for sure.
The only thing he has is a large pile of nuclear weapons. Without those weapons, I doubt that he would have invaded Ukraine.

 

[flecc]

it is in the USA's interest to contain its enemies, so it puts money where its mouth is.
Biden did not abandon Ukraine. His reasoning is simple: USA provides the weapons, Ukraine manpower to eventually push Putin and his militarists out of the way. It's much cheaper than fighting directly with its soldiers even a limited war. It's Mike Johnson who is worried about his job as speaker of the house if he does not do Trump's bidding. Trump wants Biden to achieve as little as possible, especially a solution to the Border Patrols. He also needs Russian money and Russian computer hackers. In return, he has already signalled that he won't be in the way of Putin should he gets back in the White House.
The point is Russia is Russia is no longer a super power since Gorbachev stopped the cold war. Putin still believes in the Russian empire and tries to punch above its weight with help from North Korea and Iran. With friends like them, he's losing influence with his neighbours for sure.
The only thing he has is a large pile of nuclear weapons. Without those weapons, I doubt that he would have invaded Ukraine.

Inded Biden hasn't abandoned them. It's the Republican right who are blocking the money Ukraine needs and what you say about Trump's intentions is very true. But Ukraine manpower pushing Russian militarists out of the way is sheer fantasy. Putin's Russia won't budge from Ukraine as the current situation shows. His holding what he's won is necessary to Putin's survival and he will do whatever is necessary to keep it.

Indeed Russia is no longer a super power, it never was. It was only the USSR that enabled that status while it existed.

And please, why that silly lie again that Putin believes in the Russian empire. He regrets the passing of the USSR but has no intention of trying to re-establish it, as his release of Georgia after conquering it in 2008 proved. He'll prove it again when an agreement is finally reached with Ukraine. The West will yet see Ukraine war free and independent, by agreement using the now Russian owned Azov and Black Sea ports to export its grain and minerals.
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[lenny]

Greener cities: a necessity or a luxury?

Are urban trees and parks essential to improving the environment and human health — or just a sop to middle-class ideals of gentrification? Two books debate these opposing views.

www.nature.com

 

[saneagle]

Greener cities: a necessity or a luxury?

Are urban trees and parks essential to improving the environment and human health — or just a sop to middle-class ideals of gentrification? Two books debate these opposing views.

www.nature.com

Tress and plants take CO2 out of the air and store it as biomass until it fossilises and people dig it up and burn it after thousands of years. During the process of removing CO2, they also make the vital oxygen we need. It's a symbiotic relationship: Neither of us can survive without the other.

 

[Woosh]

please, why that silly lie again that Putin believes in the Russian empire.

Besides the fact that Ukraine is the second biggest and best part of the old USSR, I am pretty sure I have read something that Putin said about Ukraine that Ukraine is Russian, or part of.

 

[lenny]

Tress and plants take CO2 out of the air and store it as biomass until it fossilises and people dig it up and burn it after thousands of years. During the process of removing CO2, they also make the vital oxygen we need. It's a symbiotic relationship: Neither of us can survive without the other.

Flowers grown floating on polluted waterways can help clean up nutrient runoff

Cut-flower farms could be a sustainable option for mitigating water pollution.

arstechnica.com

 

[Woosh]

Tress and plants take CO2 out of the air and store it as biomass until it fossilises and people dig it up and burn it after thousands of years.

that's what I am unhappy about. Extracting natural gas is OK but coal and other hydrocarbons come with a huge amount of embedded poisonous stuff.

 

[saneagle]

that's what I am unhappy about. Extracting natural gas is OK but coal and other hydrocarbons come with a huge amount of embedded poisonous stuff.

People forget that plastics come from from coal. No fossil fuels = no plastics, then we have no clothes ro wear, TVs to watch, car interiors, and nothing to buy from the Poundland.

 

[flecc]

Besides the fact that Ukraine is the second biggest and best part of the old USSR, I am pretty sure I have read something that Putin said about Ukraine that Ukraine is Russian, or part of.

As I posted, he regrets the passing of the USSR, but in addition questions the status of Donbass as many do. The basis is the CIA started euromaidan revolution, later renamed Maidan, then the Orange revolution. That was only supported by a quarter of the population when they seized power by storming parliament, Donald Trump fashion, so representing only native Ukrainians and not the other large ethnic groups including the equally a quarter of Russians, it was undemocratic.

In response the governors of both oblasts of Donbass declared independence and a desire to align with Russia, triggering the start of the 2014 war. This was then supported by Russia with arms and ammunition in the same way that the west now supports Ukraine, making it a proxy war.

As ever since WW2, the trouble started by the USA's interference somewhere they had no right to be or interfere.
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[Woosh]

People forget that plastics come from from coal. No fossil fuels = no plastics, then we have no clothes ro wear, TVs to watch, car interiors, and nothing to buy from the Poundland.

you wouldn't burn plastic to heat in winter or to provide hot water, so why burning diesel?

 

[lenny]

 

[MikelBikel]

"Research shows there has been a near-quadrupling across Greenland of methane-producing wetlands"

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/13/flourishing-vegetation-greenland-ice-sheet-alarm-climate-crisis

Well, all over Ireland they're pushing "re-wet the bogs". Knowing it will make the peat unusable, And produce more methane, which will be blamed on the cows, instead of private jets, yachts, beach homes! :-( hehe.
Add losing 20% more usuable land "re-wilded".. Anybody on the forum want to give up 20% of their food? Or eat grass? Any "Green" Volunteers?

 

[MikelBikel]

you wouldn't burn plastic to heat in winter or to provide hot water, so why burning diesel?

Sweden does burn waste for power, so much they import waste from neighbouring countries to keep the gennies going.
Do we really believe they separate out the plastic beforehand?

And (oops, edit) Orkney have so much wind gen electric they can't use it all, but have gas for cooking, oil for heating and diesel in their cars. Coz the wind don't blow when it's wanted?

But I thought plastic was made from oil, another legacy fuel.

 

[lenny]

For those who want to understand some of Putin's motivation:

Xoaquin FIores - New Resistance

Undercover recording of the head of Navalny's organization, Vladimir Ashurkov, meeting with MI6 agent James William Thomas Ford. He asks for $10-20 million a year to start a color revolution in Russia. Such operations can often result in a coup d'etat and Navalny's participation was the...

t.me

 

[saneagle]

you wouldn't burn plastic to heat in winter or to provide hot water, so why burning diesel?

There are recycling plants in the UK right now that burn plastic to make power.

Avonmouth RRC

Avonmouth RRC is located near Bristol. Find out more about the facility, how it works, the processes at work and the visitor centre.

www.viridor.co.uk

UK’s first waste plastic to hydrogen plant moves step closer to construction - The Engineer

Plans to build the UK’s first waste plastic to hydrogen facility have moved a step closer to fruition with the completion of a Front-End Engineering Design (FEED) phase.

www.theengineer.co.uk

 

[flecc]

Sweden does burn waste for power, so much they import waste from neighbouring countries to keep the gennies going.
Do we really believe they separate out the plastic beforehand?

Denmark too on a similar very large scale.

We do too in Britain, my waste goes to the Beddington Waste to Energy plant, today's every week batch leaving here this morning.

And my mixed waste, like hundreds of others in this area is NOT sorted into recycling, since we physically cannot have any recycling facilities**. It is is all churned and then burnt as my link above reveals.

** The way our properties were designed and built inthe early 1960s days of "dustbins" has left inadequate space for todays methods. So we have only three small wheelie bins for each six properties and no space for any individual recycling bins for anything at all. Hence our having to have collection every week for everything. All of our wastes go into the wheelie bins after lovingly enclosing it in plastic recycling bags to be incinerated!
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[lenny]

you wouldn't burn plastic to heat in winter or to provide hot water, so why burning diesel?

Ross Garnaut and Rod Sims have proposed a $100 billion-a-year fossil fuel tax – and it’s a debate Australia should embrace

As other nations race to restructure their economies in line with a low-carbon future, Australia risks being left behind. An economy-shaping tax on fossil fuels is a conversation we must have.

theconversation.com