Prices of the electricity we use to charge

[Ghost1951]

The problem for legacy car makers is worldwide. Outside Western countries and Japan, people buy cheap Chinese cars from about $8000 upward Chinese companies can make evs for about $6000 upward because of existing well developed supply chains. That's why the biggest tesla factory in the world is in shanghai. I keep repeating that battery and motors cost less than ice motor and with far fewer moving parts. Check the prfit margin of car companies. Where would you find carmakers returning 25%-26% beside tesla? Europe can't compete on price. It has to be imaginative to find its new direction.

You keep talking about the market performance of car makers (the ones you like) but completely ignore two things:

1. The massive government boot stamping on the IC car producers and damaging consumer confidence.

2. EV cars are FAR more expensive so far than IC ones.

You seem to be capable of talking yourself into believing absolute nonsense.

Fact - IC cars are made much more cheaply than EVs.

Fact- Most people will never buy an EV given the above and their other issues, UNLESS they are compelled to buy one by banning the alternative.

Like a lot of the left you buy into your own bull sh it and believe in it wholeheartedly.

Nobody that comes on here is against electrification where it works financially and practically. This is an ELECTRIC bike forum. We all know what advantages there are in having an electric motor on your bicycle. That works both financially and practically. For some of us, an electric car also works. For others it very much doesn't.

If you buy a European electric car from say VW,you will pay at least 20% more for it than a more capable, longer range petrol version.

Oh - and don't get onto the air pollution garbage. Most of us don't live in London. It is a dystopian, murderous, alien, ant hill, that twists the minds of the people who live there. Modern IC cars are cleaner than ever before, and more particulates come from the brakes and tyres than the exhaust pipe - something they share exactly with their electric counterparts, except they are worse, because they are a lot heavier and wear tyres and brakes much more.

 

[Woosh]

You keep talking about the market performance of car makers (the ones you like) but completely ignore two things:

1. The massive government boot stamping on the IC car producers and damaging consumer confidence.

2. EV cars are FAR more expensive so far than IC ones.

You seem to be capable of talking yourself into believing absolute nonsense.

Fact - IC cars are made much more cheaply than EVs.

Fact- Most people will never buy an EV given the above and their other issues, UNLESS they are compelled to buy one by banning the alternative.

Like a lot of the left you buy into your own bull sh it and believe in it wholeheartedly.

Nobody that comes on here is against electrification where it works financially and practically. This is an ELECTRIC bike forum. We all know what advantages there are in having an electric motor on your bicycle. That works both financially and practically. For some of us, an electric car also works. For others it very much doesn't.

Check the facts and figures of stock prices of legacy car companies and show me one stock that has risen in 2024. Then check sales volume of Tesla, BYD, Geely and other ev companies. They grew 50%+ year on year. It is a zero sum game. More ev sales means fewer ice sales. Where else do you find such growth in transportation? BYD, a company few people heard of, alone sold more than 500k cars last month. That's more than 6 millions for 2025.
Check the sales figures of countries that don't export much their cars like Australia and Thailand. You will find the growth in ev sales simply astonishing. The current growth area is to combine collecting solar energy on your roof with charging your electric car.

 

[soundwave]

 

[Ghost1951]

Check the facts and figures of stock prices of legacy car companies and show me one stock that has risen in 2024. Then check sales volume of Tesla, BYD, Geely and other ev companies. They grew 50%+ year on year. It is a zero sum game. More ev sales means fewer ice sales. Where else do you find such growth in transportation? BYD alone sold more than 500k cars last month. That's more than 6 millions for 2025.
Check the sales figures of countries that don't export much their cars like Australia and Thailand. You will find the growth in ev sales simply astonishing. The current growth area is to combine collecting solar energy on your roof with charging your electric car.

Delsuional.

You ignore what I said. There is a giant government boot on the neck of the car industry. Of course that impacts stock prices. Investors are concerned that dictatorial fascist minded state power will wreck the industry they have invested in. Right now, the industry is threatened with over-bearing fines of about £15000 pounds per unit produced over the Fuhrer's target number. What impact might that have on stock prices of IC car makers I wonder?

What is fascism? Over bearing state control which centralises power, employs compulsion to control society, stifles individual freedom and controls industry. It can be of the left or the right.

If you let people and industry make their own choices, electric cars will NEVER EVER dominate. Not in a million years. From industry's point of view they depend too much on shortage rare earth minerals and elements that are in very short supply and not universally available, being largely controlled by a very few supply lines. They are also limited in capability and have significant practical barriers to convenient operation. I can fill up my skoda in well under five minutes and have a five hundred mile range for about £55. It need a service every 24,000 miles or every two years. It cost £20,000 new last February. It averages 60 mpg on the driving that I do. If electric propulsion had been cost effective and practical for me last February, I would certainly have bought an EV. To get a car as nice and comfortable as the one I bought I would have had to pay about an additional 50%. Why would I do that? Why would I limit my range?

 

[Woosh]

Delsuional.

You ignore what I said. There is a giant government boot on the neck of the car industry. Of course that impacts stock prices. Investors are concerned that dictatorial fascist minded state power will wreck the industry they have invested in. Right now, the industry is threatened with over-bearing fines of about £15000 pounds per unit produced over the Fuhrer's target number. What impact might that have on stock prices of IC car makers I wonder?

Even if our government removes the fines (nobody is fined yet), the writing is on the wall. ICE sales will shrink because the price of evs will be lower and people can charge their cars with their own electricity.
Petrol companies will play the card of ev fires, and rightly so, the fact is new generation of batteries won't explode like old ones and the price will continue to drop further when we move from lithium to sodium.

 

[Chainmale]

If governments really want to address the environmental impact of motoring they might do better by imposing restrictions on oversized, overweight and overpowered vehicles, both ic and ev. Make cars a means of transport rather than vanity vehicles.

 

[Ghost1951]

Saneagle said recently that he gets 2kwr from his eight solar panels in winter. Good luck charging your car on that. This is the UK, described by Julius Caesar in his book The Gallic Wars, as a dark and misty island in the ocean. Australia is a different world. 95% desert. I'm sure it makes sense to have an electric car there and charge it from your rooftop power station, as long as you don't need to drive from city to city across the outback. If you do, that's a different world.

 

[Ghost1951]

If governments really want to address the environmental impact of motoring they might do better by imposing restrictions on oversized, overweight and overpowered vehicles, both ic and ev. Make cars a means of transport rather than vanity vehicles.

Yes - I hate them and the numbskulls who drive them.

 

[Ghost1951]

Even if our government removes the fines (nobody is fined yet), the writing is on the wall. ICE sales will shrink because the price of evs will be lower and people can charge their cars with their own electricity.
Petrol companies will play the card of ev fires, and rightly so, the fact is new generation of batteries won't explode like old ones and the price will continue to drop further when we move from lithium to sodium.

You hope.

NONE of this is certain or even likely. It is an aspiration.

You can not just wish things into being as you would like.

 

[Woosh]

Hands up anyone on here still thinks the air in Chinese megacities is unbreathable? Since 2015, Chinese government allows only electric motobikes into towns, the transformation is simply astonishing.

 

[MikelBikel]

New name for "Windmills", 'Disposable Bird Blenders'. Don't see Attenborough doing any exposés on that?! Where are the "Animal Rights" ninnies now?

 

[Woosh]

New name for "Windmills", 'Disposable Bird Blenders'. Don't see Attenborough doing any exposés on that?! Where are the "Animal Rights" ninnies now?

Then ask yourself why most countries including the UK have phased out coal. It's not as if we don't have the black stuff. While you are at it, compare how much the grid pays wind farms for their kwh against gas.
Worldwide, coal accounts for about 19% of electricity generation and decreasing year on year. Unlike gas, coal does not have the PR machine paid for by the petrol companies.

 

[soundwave]

we need all the kids down the mines asap

 

[Ghost1951]

Worldwide, coal accounts for about 19% of electricity generation and decreasing year on year. Unlike gas, coal does not have the PR machine paid for by the petrol companies.

You're doing my head in with your made up nonsense. The figure is 35%!

 

[Woosh]

You're doing my head in with your made up nonsense. The figure is 35%!

I thought I copied the figure correctly from google but when I looked up again, it wasn't 19% but 35%. Sorry.

 

[Ghost1951]

I thought I copied the figure correctly from google but when I looked up again, it wasn't 19% but 35%. Sorry.

Take no notice of my rudeness. You know how cantankerous I am.

 

[soundwave]

i fitted my own ct clamp

 

[Ghost1951]

Sweden's green industry hopes hit by Northvolt woes

Financial problems at battery maker Northvolt have shaken hopes for Sweden's green industry sector.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[MikelBikel]

It's back to Con (chem) trails time. X marks the spot. Wonder if we'll get the "Fog" that's prevalent in England? This story 6days old, how longs it been? Cough!

Met Office warns fog will blanket much of the country until the weekend

The fog which has caused problems for flights in parts of England will persist into the weekend, the Met Office said

www.chroniclelive.co.uk

Funny, It's been clear as a bell here, freezing though. :-/

 

[Woosh]

Sweden's green industry hopes hit by Northvolt woes

Financial problems at battery maker Northvolt have shaken hopes for Sweden's green industry sector.

www.bbc.co.uk

To build battery cells you need a combination of excellence in electrochemistry and automation. The only way for Europe to catch up with the market leaders, such as catl and byd is patnering with them. That's what elon musk has done. You combine the best in China and Europe. Most startups lack not only deep pockets but also the right attitude regarding necessaryskills. In the 70s, I started my business building amplifiers. All I needed was a soldering iron and a stack of practical wireless magazines. Those days are gone forever. Europe is good at building wind turbines. We should make the most of it.