Prices of the electricity we use to charge

[Woosh]

If that is true - why would they close it down.

New EV factories are mostly staffed by robots. Old factories just can't compete.

 

[Ghost1951]

Is it not true that Nissan are on record as saying that the Sunderland plant is by far their most efficient plant in the whole portfolio?

This Nissan release says that the Sunderland plant is the most efficient plant in the western world.

If that is true - why would they close it down.

Apparently, they only accept 30% of applicants to work there.

"The Sunderland plant is the most productive automotive plant in the Western world, and while we have great people working for us, the Nissan Production Way is what made this success possible." see below.

https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCUMENT/PDF/AR/2004/ar2004e_25.pdf

Edit:

Just thinking again about that quote about 'the Nissan way' being the reason the plant is so successful. If that were true, why wouldn't all their plant be AS successful as the Sunderland one. Clearly they operate their culture in all of their plant, but this one is head and shoulders better than the rest. In that case, it is something about THAT operation which makes it so. The Nissan Way is common to them all.

 

[Woosh]

Edit:

Just thinking again about that quote about 'the Nissan way' being the reason the plant is so successful. If that were true, why wouldn't all their plant be AS successful as the Sunderland one. Clearly they operate their culture in all of their plant, but this one is head and shoulders better than the rest. In that case, it is something about THAT operation which makes it so. The Nissan Way is common to them all.

it does not matter that Nissan claim their factory are one of the most efficient.
Musk has shown the way, I have read somewhere than a Tesla has about 7000 parts, an average ICE has about 30,000 parts. That sums up the inequal fight.

 

[MikelBikel]

Utter nonsense, anti Chinese propaganda.

The reason Toyota and Honda have stuck with hybrids is the Japanese long standing mistrust, even hatred of China and fear of China's dominance in rare earths supply.

Note that all the other major Japanese car makers are part owned by the Western motor industry and therefore haven't followed that course.

Note that China has totally gone for EVs to help deal with their very serious air pollution problem, one we all suffer to some degree in urban areas. Nothing whatsoever to do with environmental pollution at rare earth mining sites which is easily dealt with anyway and never suffered by the majority of the population.

Note also that Toyota has a dominant position with i.c. off road vehicles in the third world, where electricity supplies are unreliable or almost non existent. A valuable market which they wish to protect by continuing with i.c. engine manufacture for decades to come.
.

More a very sensible approach to strategically sensitive raw materials supply chains.

"The extraction of REMs is one of the most environmentally negative and toxic generating of all mining practices".

Rare Earth Elements (REE): Why are they strategically important? - ClearIAS

The global demand for Rare Earth Elements (REE) has increased significantly. Learn the importance of REE and its strategic significance.

www.clearias.com

Not so "Green" when one looks closer?

Who really owns global car companies? "Money talks..". Do we really think Netherlands co.s own all these?
Renault-Nissan-Mitsubishi Alliance (Netherlands) owns Renault, Infiniti, Mitsubishi, and Nissan.
Stellantis (Netherlands) 2021 corporation: Alfa Romeo, Chrysler, Dodge, Fiat, Jeep, Maserati, and Ram. Overseas brands also include Citroen, DS Automobiles, Opel, Peugeot, and Vauxhall
Or are they just incorporated there for a tax dodge?
Follow the Money

Stellantis Nv Stock Ownership - Who Owns Stellantis Nv in 2025? | WallStreetZen

www.wallstreetzen.com

Some say Agnelli and Peugot families own it but Wall Street says approx a Third Institutional investors, two thirds "Retail", Zero insiders. Interesting.

If China has gone for BEV's to save pollution then why are they sitting in fields while their air is a bad as ever?

https://scitechdaily.com/the-dark-side-of-electric-vehicles-a-hidden-pollution-problem/

Toyota are doing well, good. We need a sensible car maker to keep the world mobile. We're not all retired and knitting in an armchair, hehe

 

[matthewslack]

it does not matter that Nissan claim their factory are one of the most efficient.
Musk has shown the way, I have read somewhere than a Tesla has about 7000 parts, an average ICE has about 30,000 parts. That sums up the inequal fight.

That's going to depend on how 'part' is defined. The worst case battery of a type S 100kWh using 18650 cells has around 8,000 cells. Not much left over for the rest of the car!

 

[Ghost1951]

it does not matter that Nissan claim their factory are one of the most efficient.
Musk has shown the way, I have read somewhere than a Tesla has about 7000 parts, an average ICE has about 30,000 parts. That sums up the inequal fight.

Well that's rubbish for a start because as far as I know, they have about 7000, 18650s in some of the batteries.

Production in 2023 was over 30% up on the previous year and the company are developing two new electric vehicles with a £2Bn investment in the plant at Sunderland.

 

[flecc]

Production in 2023 was over 30% up on the previous year and the company are developing two new electric vehicles with a £2Bn investment in the plant at Sunderland.

Your replies in this subject are about Nissan, who are failing and will have no say.

Honda are a very different company and succeeding, and it's been made clear that they will be running the consortium if the merger goes ahead. In 2021 they made their decision regarding manufacture in Britain and all the changes since then only strengthen that decision.
.

 

[Ghost1951]

Your replies in this subject are about Nissan, who are failing and will have no say.

Honda are a very different company and succeeding, and it's been made clear that they will be running the consortium if the merger goes ahead. In 2021 they made their decision regarding manufacture in Britain and all the changes since then only strengthen that decision.
.

Really? Honda shut down its Swindon plant because it needed upgrading and investment. The Sunderland plant is a huge success and has had billions invested already. Why would any rational business scrap that?



In 2023, Nissan's net revenue was up 20%, their net profit was up 51% and their net income was up 92%.

I'm no accountant, but that doesn't look too shabby to me.

https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/NSANY/financials/annual/balance-sheet

https://global.nissannews.com/en/releases/240509-01-e

Nissan Motor Balance Sheet 2009-2024 | NSANY

Ten years of annual and quarterly balance sheets for Nissan Motor (NSANY). The balance sheet is a financial report that shows the assets of a business (i.e. what it owns), the liabilities (i.e. what it owes to others), and equity (i.e. the difference between assets and liabilities).

www.macrotrends.net

 

[Woosh]

Really? Honda shut down its Swindon plant because it needed upgrading and investment. The Sunderland plant is a huge success and has had billions invested already. Why would any rational business scrap that?

In the eu alone, it is expected that 100,000 jobs from the legacy car industry are gone each month until it disappears completely. How many will find jobs in a new plant making evs is anybody 's guess.
The tide is against legacy ice cars.

 

[soundwave]

robots dont eat or fart they weigh a fkn ton tho

 

[Ghost1951]

In the eu alone, it is expected that 100,000 jobs from the legacy car industry are gone each month until it disappears completely. How many will find jobs in a new plant making evs is anybody 's guess.
The tide is against legacy ice cars.

That isn't because people don't want them, but because governments have and are legislating against them. This undermines the viability of what for most people is a significant investment.

If the choice between buying an EV, or an IC care was left to the market, the EVs would remain a small proportion of purchases of cars, more or less confined to those who are content to drive low mileages around their locality. It is only the compulsion involved by government and the concern that in a few years penal taxation of IC cars may emerge that drives what sales EVs are gaining. This year in the UK, 18.1% of new cars were EVs. Not a great recommendation is it, considering the lack of tax on their fuel and the implied threat of upcoming taxation.

 

[soundwave]

Electric car drivers face threat of steep tax rises based on vehicle weight

Larger and more polluting models should pay more, Labour told

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[flecc]

Really? Honda shut down its Swindon plant because it needed upgrading and investment. ?

That was the least of their reasons and based on the anticipated change to EVs. That demand picture is very different now and the EU-Japanese trade agreement and bulk car transporters have radically changed where car manufacturing takes place now. Ultimately Nissan have been backing the wrong horse with Sunderland and Honda will have their own opinions of success.

In 2023, Nissan's net revenue was up 20%, their net profit was up 51% and their net income was up 92%.

I'm no accountant, but that doesn't look too shabby to me.

https://www.wsj.com/market-data/quotes/NSANY/financials/annual/balance-sheet

https://global.nissannews.com/en/releases/240509-01-e

Nissan Motor Balance Sheet 2009-2024 | NSANY

Ten years of annual and quarterly balance sheets for Nissan Motor (NSANY). The balance sheet is a financial report that shows the assets of a business (i.e. what it owns), the liabilities (i.e. what it owes to others), and equity (i.e. the difference between assets and liabilities).

www.macrotrends.net

Fantasy numbers. Why are they broke, unable to finance further activity and contemplating giving up all control to a rival, if they are so successful?

The answer to that conundrum is that they have been buying sales to maintain production, the madness of selling at below cost. Back in 2021 they announced the new Ariya e-car and said they would be discontinuing the Leaf in 2022. That never happened, the Ariya was first delayed, then flopped in the market, so they continued to make the Leaf. But buyers won't pay £35k or more for one, so the prices had to fall and they are now selling a high level Leaf model at £27k, £4k less than when I bought my lesser introductory model 7 years ago. Their strategies have clearly failed to save them so they are at the brink.

However the merger is hypothetical and given Japanese pride I'm far from convinced it will happen, so I'll leave this discussion at that.
.

 

[Woosh]

That isn't because people don't want them, but because governments have and are legislating against them. This undermines the viability of what for most people is a significant investment.

If the choice between buying an EV, or an IC care was left to the market, the EVs would remain a small proportion of purchases of cars, more or less confined to those who are content to drive low mileages around their locality. It is only the compulsion involved by government and the concern that in a few years penal taxation of IC cars may emerge that drives what sales EVs are gaining. This year in the UK, 18.1% of new cars were EVs. Not a great recommendation is it, considering the lack of tax on their fuel and the implied threat of upcoming taxation.

The problem for legacy car makers is worldwide. Outside Western countries and Japan, people buy cheap Chinese cars from about $8000 upward Chinese companies can make evs for about $6000 upward because of existing well developed supply chains. That's why the biggest tesla factory in the world is in shanghai. I keep repeating that battery and motors cost less than ice motor and with far fewer moving parts. Check the prfit margin of car companies. Where would you find carmakers returning 25%-26% beside tesla? Europe can't compete on price. It has to be imaginative to find its new direction.

 

[soundwave]

25k cash

 

[soundwave]

F80: Ferrari’s new supercar

Ferrari today unveiled the F80 and wrote a new chapter in the history of legendary supercars bearing the Prancing Horse badge.

www.ferrari.com

3.9 million its not fast enough id want warp speed 3 for that price

 

[Woosh]

F80: Ferrari’s new supercar

Ferrari today unveiled the F80 and wrote a new chapter in the history of legendary supercars bearing the Prancing Horse badge.

www.ferrari.com

3.9 million its not fast enough id want warp speed 3 for that price

You need ion drive, powered by matter anti-matter fusion reactor. Saneagle can design and 3d print it for you.

 

[soundwave]

warp speed 3 is 25 billion mph w4 is 85b

 

[soundwave]

handy window for mc ds

 

[saneagle]

Thank goodness that's all being offset by our millions of EVs.
.

So when EVs catch fire, they cancel out my bonfires. is that what you're saying?