Prices of the electricity we use to charge

[Ghost1951]

We can do anything we like if we put our mind to it, including batteries.

Remember where the Industrial Revolution started and remember what most of the rest of the world was like 150 years ago.

Forty years ago,the Chinese were making crude hammers and crude everything. Most of them lived in a peasant economy. Now they make everything - no matter how high tech and they can make it well.

The only reason is that they worked together to make something happen and the rest of the world got suckered into the idea that exporting our own work to them and buying stuff on the cheap was a clever ruse.

It wasn't. Our own wealth and productivity has been squandered by this, ' buy cheap and export jobs' approach. You don't need to go to them as surfs and supplicants to beg a partnership. We should stop them dumping product at ridiculous prices, by imposing massive tariffs and we should make our own stuff.

Simples.

 

[Woosh]

We can do anything we like if we put our mind to it, including batteries.

Remember where the Industrial Revolution started and remember what most of the rest of the world was like 150 years ago.

Forty years ago,the Chinese were making crude hammers and crude everything. Most of them lived in a peasant economy. Now they make everything - no matter how high tech and they can make it well.

The only reason is that they worked together to make something happen and the rest of the world got suckered into the idea that exporting our own work to them and buying stuff on the cheap was a clever ruse.

It wasn't. Our own wealth and productivity has been squandered by this, ' buy cheap and export jobs' approach. You don't need to go to them as surfs and supplicants to beg a partnership. We should stop them dumping product at ridiculous prices, by imposing massive tariffs and we should make our own stuff.

Simples.

Not so simple. The supply chains are worldwide, the level of r&d is well beyond any country acting alone. Take chipmaking for example. Even China may not be able to produce sub 4 nm for a decade. Musk knows the issues well, that is why he builds links with so many battery makers: Panasonic, LG Chem, Samsung, CATL, BYD and more.

 

[AndyBike]

You surely don't believe in getting free energy?

0.5mm drill bit+ a piece of thin wire+An electricity meter = Free energy.

 

[AndyBike]

We can do anything we like if we put our mind to it, including batteries.

Remember where the Industrial Revolution started and remember what most of the rest of the world was like 150 years ago.

Forty years ago,the Chinese were making crude hammers and crude everything. Most of them lived in a peasant economy. Now they make everything - no matter how high tech and they can make it well.

The only reason is that they worked together to make something happen and the rest of the world got suckered into the idea that exporting our own work to them and buying stuff on the cheap was a clever ruse.

It wasn't. Our own wealth and productivity has been squandered by this, ' buy cheap and export jobs' approach. You don't need to go to them as surfs and supplicants to beg a partnership. We should stop them dumping product at ridiculous prices, by imposing massive tariffs and we should make our own stuff.

Simples.

We'll never make anything again, that is not what Britain is about now.
The tories under thatcher pretty much set Britain up as a banking institution, that other people/countries would 'wash' their ill gotten gains through - Think Switzerland of the 1940's
Today it is dodgy banking and offshore accounts, no questions asked.

You know how to tell a dodgy offshore bank from a regular one ?

The dodgy one has a union jack as part of its flag.

And it was all going so well until brexit. Now we're fooked.

 

[soundwave]

cosmic power

 

[soundwave]

 

[saneagle]

Then ask yourself why most countries including the UK have phased out coal. It's not as if we don't have the black stuff. While you are at it, compare how much the grid pays wind farms for their kwh against gas.
Worldwide, coal accounts for about 19% of electricity generation and decreasing year on year. Unlike gas, coal does not have the PR machine paid for by the petrol companies.

That's an excellent question. I think the answer is more political than practical. I think they deliberately cut off the supply of cheap energy sources to help justify their green agenda. It'll be interesting to see what happens when Trump reignites the USA oil industry.

I like the idea of clean air, but the rest of is is bunkum. They've done a massive experiment that has completely backfired, though it's always possible that their objective was always to break the Western Automobile industry. Nearly all the other factories have gone. It's all that's left. The investment in all the new EV production lines has to be paid for, but there isn't the market for the vehicles. The end result is the prices are too high, not because of lack of efficiency or high labour costs. It's simply the investment costs. They're trying to spread the burden by increasing the cost of ICE cars, but now nobody can afford them. It's a total mess. They're all eating their own tails.

Here's something I don't understand. A BMW petrol hybrid does around 34 mpg on average for normal everyday driving. My Peugeot diesel does around 55mpg on average. Which one makes the most CO2? Which one makes the most pollution? Which one spreads the most harmful rubber particles? Why is the government giving incentives for people to buy BMW hybrids, when it doesn't seem like the battery is doing much?

 

[saneagle]

Not so simple. The supply chains are worldwide, the level of r&d is well beyond any country acting alone. Take chipmaking for example. Even China may not be able to produce sub 4 nm for a decade. Musk knows the issues well, that is why he builds links with so many battery makers: Panasonic, LG Chem, Samsung, CATL, BYD and more.

You said that they're made by robots. Surely, the cost to make by robot is the same in every country, except that energy cost would be more significant. Why is it then, cheap energy sources are all being shut down? None of this makes sense to me.

 

[Woosh]

You said that they're made by robots. Surely, the cost to make by robot is the same in every country, except that energy cost would be more significant. Why is it then, cheap energy sources are all being shut down? None of this makes sense to me.

You know well tesla and Musk.
He bought an entire production line from CATL for his Arizona battery factory.
Musk has built very strong ties with China. His biggest factory is in shanghai. As industrialist, Musk knows better than anyone how to do these things.
Now there are strong similarities between making chips and making batteries. The equivalent of CATL in chips is TSMC.
The USA got TSMC to build foundries in Arizona. The guys from TSMC have said that it costs them 10 times to build in Arizona than in Taiwan. If you are interested in technology transfers in top industries, watch this interview on yt. TSMC employs nearly 20,000 PhD researchers. Where will you find them?

watch?v=Lzizz4z1fPw

 

[Woosh]

Why is it then, cheap energy sources are all being shut down? None of this makes sense to me.

Coal has been phased out, nuclear is too expensive and takes too long to build. Gas is not shut down. Without guarantee of cheap Russian gas, wind is the cheapest source of energy in long term. Solar may be cheaper in the near future though. Apparently, by combining solar panels with supercapacitor, the yield can be as high as 60%. That would be game changer.

 

[saneagle]

You know well tesla and Musk.
He bought an entire production line from CATL for his Arizona battery factory.
Musk has built very strong ties with China. His biggest factory is in shanghai. As industrialist, Musk knows better than anyone how to do these things.
Now there are strong similarities between making chips and making batteries. The equivalent of CATL in chips is TSMC.
The USA got TSMC to build foundries in Arizona. The guys from TSMC have said that it costs them 10 times to build in Arizona than in Taiwan. If you are interested in technology transfers in top industries, watch this interview on yt. TSMC employs nearly 20,000 PhD researchers. Where will you find them?

watch?v=Lzizz4z1fPw

Chips are made on automatic production lines. Wherever you make them, the equipment comes from the same source. How can it cost 10 times to make in one location compared with another? Someone is telling you BS.

 

[Woosh]

Chips are made on automatic production lines. Wherever you make them, the equipment comes from the same source. How can it cost 10 times to make in one location compared with another? Someone is telling you BS.

They were talking about the initial build cost. The factory has just been finished before Xmas. Both Biden and Trump were expected to inaugurate but the inauguration was cancelled.
Difference in material cost, water supply, transportation, planning, administration fees and labour cost. The guys blamed the local contractors and delays. I will try to locate the yt interview if you are interested.

 

[MikelBikel]

Musk is definitely pulling the tiger by the tail with his H1b visa scam.
Tail trying to wag the DOGE?
Yeeha!

CNN just aired this holy shlit

youtube.com

 

[MikelBikel]

Elon Musk Has A WORD Of WARNING For Lobbyists In DC Who Prevent Small Companies From Competing

Elon Musk doesn't like when a new business can't enter a market because of unfair restrictions. #elonmusk #interview #viral

youtube.com

Lobbyists should be banned and NGO's dissolved (afuera!)
Unless it's His company doing the lobbying?
Huge Conflict of Interest. :-/

 

[flecc]

I think the answer is more political than practical.

Agreed, see below.

They've done a massive experiment that has completely backfired, though it's always possible that their objective was always to break the Western Automobile industry.

Neither, but their objective is ending universal car ownership, the allowance of which has long been seen as a huge and very costly mistake. Once this is fully understood, the reason for the rest of the political EV policies becomes clear.

Nearly all the other factories have gone. It's all that's left. The investment in all the new EV production lines has to be paid for, but there isn't the market for the vehicles. The end result is the prices are too high, not because of lack of efficiency or high labour costs. It's simply the investment costs. They're trying to spread the burden by increasing the cost of ICE cars, but now nobody can afford them. It's a total mess. They're all eating their own tails.

None of this, the prices are too high for customers even when there are no new investment costs. It is deliberate. The makers are fed up with working hard to sell huge numbers of cars into a cut throat predominantly small car market for no profit or even a loss. That is why GM virtually gave away their entire European operation to Peugeot. And why Ford said they were seriously thinking of doing the same, despite several years of making the largest selling car in Europe, the Fiesta.

The new strategy is to go up market, selling far less cars but at large profits, hence their enthusiastic leap into up market EVs. Which, surprise, surprise, neatly fits the the above quoted governmental aim of less universal ownership!

Nor is there even an EV sales problem, 2024's EV sales are a new record. The only problem is the wholly artificial government target of 22% EVs not quite met

Here's something I don't understand. A BMW petrol hybrid does around 34 mpg on average for normal everyday driving. My Peugeot diesel does around 55mpg on average. Which one makes the most CO2? Which one makes the most pollution? Which one spreads the most harmful rubber particles? Why is the government giving incentives for people to buy BMW hybrids, when it doesn't seem like the battery is doing much?

You are mistaken. All government purchase subsidies on EVs were stopped by the start of 2022, and since then many other subsidies have been slashed or stopped. London's Congestion charge now has to be paid by hybrids. Charge point installation subsidies are now only for flats or other rented accommodation and the amount has been reduced.
.

 

[soundwave]

do you have to pay a Congestion charge for a helicopter?

 

[flecc]

do you have to pay a Congestion charge for a helicopter?

There's no congestion of them since they are under air traffic control and other flight restrictions.
.

 

[soundwave]

buy a helicopter then and burn that jet fuel

 

[flecc]

buy a helicopter then and burn that jet fuel

Last private one I flew in across London was in 1976, a Bell 47G-3.

That had a Lycoming horizontally-opposed, six cylinder, air-cooled piston engine, so not jet fuel. We had some fun though, pulling stunts over the Thames and N/W Surrey.
.

 

[MikelBikel]

And they even make hybrids, if you're a fifty-fifty sort of person!
(Wonder what 2024 will look like with all the pre-regs?)