Possible Haibike purchase.

[Artstu]

Indeed, thanks Martin, as suspected the same unit bar the set-up. I see they have a 20 mph ish speed limit in America.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMz6MydeKK0

ooh hang on, wrong video, this one

www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbXLAKvA9VQ

 

[Backin5]

Nice to see rip off Britain is still going strong. I don't blame the dealers, by god no; I run my own business and am utterly ground down by the amount of tax to pay.

I think most dealers have a similar mark up on these types of things, which means budget bikes sold high volume is one way of going, but high value bikes that sell less have a higher margin as they cost up to x10 more. So I don't begrudge a dealers mark up.

However, by the time you've factored in VAT, shipping, Haikibes R&D and profit, Raleigh's cut, operating costs and then finally 21% corporation tax if you do manage to scape any decent profit, it's a wonder anybody bothers to try and set up as a dealer in this country. The fact is those German dealers probably pay a huge wack less for the bikes anyway, given that they both will shift way more units and will have built up long term relationships with the German Haibike dealer over the years, in German.

I've purchased plenty of pro audio stuff for my business over the years, some direct from Germany, and have actually found German customer service, warranties and consumer protection better than in the UK. I think the ebike market is an improvement on our generally lacklustre attitude to customer service though, with many of the UK dealers very passionate and knowledgeable about their products, which means tip top customer service.

End of the day, we need to support our own home grown dealers, because if we don't they will wither, and we'll be left buying everything from China or Germany.

 

[EddiePJ]

I have actually asked that this thread be pulled as I don't want my opinion to get in the way of Martins business and hard work that he puts into it. Admin have stated that they would prefer to leave it in place for now.

As a business, http://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/ deserves to prosper given the amount of effort and time that Martin clearly puts into it. More than likely through gritted teeth he has remained polite and professional in this thread, which again is testament to his professionalism.

As much as I'd loved to have given Martin my business, by the end of today I should own an a new old stock 250w 400wh Haibike at a largely discounted price direct from Germany.

For me the thread has now run it's course, so if possible could we just let it sink into the void of old threads with no more replies.

 

[RobF]

Pleased you are sorted.

I've been thinking a Haibike, but not the dearest one, might suit you.

It should do the work much better than the BH, although even with a Haibike I suggest you avoid the foot-deep mud.

 

[iain85]

I have actually asked that this thread be pulled as I don't want my opinion to get in the way of Martins business and hard work that he puts into it. Admin have stated that they would prefer to leave it in place for now.

As a business, http://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/ deserves to prosper given the amount of effort and time that Martin clearly puts into it. More than likely through gritted teeth he has remained polite and professional in this thread, which again is testament to his professionalism.

As much as I'd loved to have given Martin my business, by the end of today I should own an a new old stock 250w 400wh Haibike at a largely discounted price direct from Germany.

For me the thread has now run it's course, so if possible could we just let it sink into the void of old threads with no more replies.

Did you get the bike you linked to earlier in the thread?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Nice to see rip off Britain is still going strong. I don't blame the dealers, by god no; I run my own business and am utterly ground down by the amount of tax to pay.

I think most dealers have a similar mark up on these types of things, which means budget bikes sold high volume is one way of going, but high value bikes that sell less have a higher margin as they cost up to x10 more. So I don't begrudge a dealers mark up.

However, by the time you've factored in VAT, shipping, Haikibes R&D and profit, Raleigh's cut, operating costs and then finally 21% corporation tax if you do manage to scape any decent profit, it's a wonder anybody bothers to try and set up as a dealer in this country. The fact is those German dealers probably pay a huge wack less for the bikes anyway, given that they both will shift way more units and will have built up long term relationships with the German Haibike dealer over the years, in German.

I've purchased plenty of pro audio stuff for my business over the years, some direct from Germany, and have actually found German customer service, warranties and consumer protection better than in the UK. I think the ebike market is an improvement on our generally lacklustre attitude to customer service though, with many of the UK dealers very passionate and knowledgeable about their products, which means tip top customer service.

End of the day, we need to support our own home grown dealers, because if we don't they will wither, and we'll be left buying everything from China or Germany.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The big problem of selling Haibikes in the UK is that it is a very small market,I suspect only a few hundred customers in total. The effect of this is that Raleigh only have a passing interest in selling Haibike,although lately they have a brave new salesman who is trying to push the product.
In Germany they have a much bigger market so therefore can work on lower margins,taking their profits by way of volume.
Also the market in Germany between the many manufacturers is very competitive so I suspect the dealers buy the product much cheaper.
Our high street is the most expensive place to do business,our retail business rates are 10 times that of Germany.
It is very difficult for UK ebike dealers to make a profit,note how many are back street locations usually supported by another business and often run by a hard working enthusiast,it is certainly not an industry to become a millionaire.
Most e bike customers don't like to stray too far away from £1000 and actually the volume sales are more like £700-£800,the market needs to mature to second or third purchases before £2000 plus bikes become the accepted value. Because of this companies like Kudos are producing bikes in the style and price level that UK customers want,the availability of good bikes at this price level is probably making it more difficult for retailers to sell in volume at higher prices.
KudosDave
www.kudoscycles.com

 

[HelenJ]

I have actually asked that this thread be pulled as I don't want my opinion to get in the way of Martins business and hard work that he puts into it. Admin have stated that they would prefer to leave it in place for now.

Just to clarify that this is for no other reason than this is our general policy. We don't usually touch threads unless for a legal reason.

Aside from which people have spent a good deal of time replying as part of this thread. Plus everyone can see Martin is doing everything he can to help those who want to buy in the UK.

Generally speaking most members prefer this 'light touch' policy and we've been accused of censorship even when editing elements of threads that have strayed into legal territory.. so that's why in case anyone was wondering.

 

[Martin@e-bikeshop]

Hi Helen,

Thanks, yes please leave the post in place, I have sold multiple bikes now as a result of it. Those understanding all the benefits of buying local as everyone has expressed in previous posts in this thread.

Shame we couldnt have Eddie on board, after lots of communications from him and questions often answered within minutes whether it be PM's on here, our facebook or direct emails. We have answered it all.

All the best with the new bike Eddie, you obviously have had a bad experience with your previous purchase and the aftersales you received, shame I could not prove that there is a better way out there. I wish you well and hope you don't run into trouble and seek the UK support further down the line.

^^Nice plug there Kudos Dave haha. The lower end price is obviously your market there, so Ill leave you to it. Might catch up with you at the LBS next weekend..

Again thanks to all the people who have commented saying how wonderful my service is.. Certainly a lot of positive points made, I do really appreciate it. Even at one point being referred to as an 'Ambassador'.. Nice!

All the best guys.. Over and out.
Martin

 

[RobF]

Nice one, Martin.

Too many businessmen - not just on here - expect it all their own way.

And looking on the bright side, the way Eddie uses his bikes, you might be better off not being (directly) responsible for after sales.

 

[Robb9771]

Its good to leave these posts in place. It certainly gives Martin and other trade members the opportunity to educate us the buying public. Ultimately you pay you money and take your choice - I personally would prefer to buy in the UK but frustrated that better specced equipment is available in Germany regardless of cost.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Do not think this pricing differential is all one way....the UK is the home of Motorsport,outside of the USA we have the biggest volume for Motorsport parts. My German dealers are constantly complaining about the low prices of such parts in the UK and many German,French and Belgium customers come over to the UK to save money on their parts.
Bikes like Kudos or Woosh,although made in China,are probably about as close to UK made as we are currently going to get, at least the lion's share of the value added is in the UK. The bikes are conceived in the UK,the dealer chain is in the UK,the import duty is paid to HMRC,any profits and vat is taxable in the UK.
12 months ago we were all talking about crank drive and I must be honest and say that we intended to move the product range towards crank drive. But the emergence of the low speed high torque BPM motor has convinced me that is the best answer at this time,it is cheaper,it is a much simpler installation and is much more powerful than all the crank drives currently available(remember how the Kudos Tornado beat all the legal e-bikes up the hill at Bristol).
We have made crank drive work on our Eiger bike but only by using the Nuvinci 360 hub. The Nuvinci seems the only economical solution to overcoming the notchy gear change uphill down shifts that are inherent in crank drive/derailleur systems,the Bosch generation 2 systems overcome this by reducing the power but they have a loss of momentum,in reality you select the gear before hitting the hill.
KudosDave
www.kudoscycles.com

 

[RobF]

in reality you select the gear before hitting the hill.
KudosDave
www.kudoscycles.com

Er, isn't that how you are supposed to tackle a hill on a geared bike?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Er, isn't that how you are supposed to tackle a hill on a geared bike?

Yep....but a lot of purchasers of ebikes are not experienced cyclists,they expect to be able to change down,without backing off.
Out Kudos Ibex bike was TCM crank drive with Alivio derailleur,an experienced cyclist had the 'intelligence' to back off especially on steep uphill downshifts. But the power of the TCM motor plus the rider input caused the chain to be like an iron bar,if you didn't back off it was asking a lot of any derailleur system to lift the chain.
I still sell that bike but only to customers who understand how to change gear uphill.
The Kudos Eiger with its Nuvinci hub can take a full power on uphill gear change without protest,it's much more user friendly to riders who are not experienced cyclists.
KudosDave
www.kudoscycles.com

 

[Croxden]

The big problem of selling Haibikes in the UK is that it is a very small market,I suspect only a few hundred customers in total.

This makes feel really honoured having the only Delite in the country.

 

[Artstu]

Er, isn't that how you are supposed to tackle a hill on a geared bike?

No you change at the exact points you need to, on racing bikes this is even possible now whilst honking out of the saddle, and with 22 gears to go at being in exactly the right gear is as good as it gets.

 

[martinb]

I feel we all go on personal experience.
Having tried to buy a Haibike from martin@ebikes but being told there was none available until late January, I did a Google search and found them in Germany at €1990 and included delivered to the UK that's £1440.
UK price £1850 that's an enormous saving and has a full European warranty which I did confirm with the manufacturer before purchase ( Winona Group) stated there's only one warranty within the EEC wether it's bought in the UK or the EEC.
Not many dealers will tell you.
It's a free market and as a buyer you can buy freely from anywhere in the EEC with no import duties what so ever.
With the euro to the pound at €1.4 to the £ it's never been cheaper

 

[JohnCade]

I feel we all go on personal experience.
Having tried to buy a Haibike from martin@ebikes but being told there was none available until late January, I did a Google search and found them in Germany at €1990 and included delivered to the UK that's £1440.
UK price £1850 that's an enormous saving and has a full European warranty which I did confirm with the manufacturer before purchase ( Winona Group) stated there's only one warranty within the EEC wether it's bought in the UK or the EEC.
Not many dealers will tell you.
It's a free market and as a buyer you can buy freely from anywhere in the EEC with no import duties what so ever.
With the euro to the pound at €1.4 to the £ it's never been cheaper

So how does this European warranty pan out in practise? You had an issue trying to even get advice from a dealer here because you didn’t buy it from him. So if it needed fixing who would do it? When I was thinking about buying a Kalkhoff direct from Germany a little while ago Derby Cycles told me that the warranty would be with the German dealer. So it would have to be shipped back to him if there was a major problem.

Which in an age of increased mobility when people move countries for work and pleasure all the time seemed to me to be relic of the dark ages.

 

[Richy]

Anyone planning to buy from Europe now that the pound is strengthening against the euro and can recommend a reputable site to buy from? I'm thinking I need to buy before labour win the election because then the rate might move towards parity.

 

[LEBC Tom]

I feel we all go on personal experience.
Having tried to buy a Haibike from martin@ebikes but being told there was none available until late January, I did a Google search and found them in Germany at €1990 and included delivered to the UK that's £1440.
UK price £1850 that's an enormous saving and has a full European warranty which I did confirm with the manufacturer before purchase ( Winona Group) stated there's only one warranty within the EEC wether it's bought in the UK or the EEC.
Not many dealers will tell you.
It's a free market and as a buyer you can buy freely from anywhere in the EEC with no import duties what so ever.
With the euro to the pound at €1.4 to the £ it's never been cheaper

So have you found a dealer here that will look after your bike? I'm intrigued to know how and where you'd get the support if needed?