New Name for Forum

[morphix]

Oh so very true, they're designed to go much faster. ...

You're argument doesn't make any logical sense.

Can,t believe all this anal shite..who gives a toss....get out on your bikes an enjoy them..... be safe...have fun...your gonna die soon...

Or the gov will make it so expensive and restrictive to own and ride an e-bike, that you will either no longer have that luxury, else many people will just think pedelecs are a waste of time and move to electric mopeds and pedelecs will die a slow death.

 

[morphix]

Oh A please!!

As for B, I'm an adult, I realise there is a law but as I keep saying you can't keep on preaching to people who have no desire to be converted.
Clearly it doesn't work and it just gets repetitive and very boring very quickly!!!

We can keep reminding people what is legal and what is illegal, because some people need reminding.

And if you choose option A) it will be a MUCH easier for everyone to see who is breaking the law! Is that a good idea?

 

[Yamdude]

I simply dont believe all this scaremongering that legal ebikes will get banned because of the few illegal ebikes.
I also dont care much that people have s pedelecs, or illegal ebikes, call them what you will. I may well get a non legal kit for my next conversion. I also have no respect for this throttle ban, whenever it happens, and will carry on using throttles.

 

[danielrlee]

You're argument doesn't make any logical sense.


Or the gov will make it so expensive and restrictive to own and ride an e-bike, that you will either no longer have that luxury,

In that scenario, riders of illegal bikes will continue to ride illegally.

As of this moment in time, the pedelec Gestapo are brining more attention of the issue than any law breaker.

 

[Artstu]

You're argument doesn't make any logical sense.

One last try then, have you never seen a bicycle race. any discipline, road racing, downhill MTB?

I don't require an answer.

 

[morphix]

How unlikely is that? Not going to happen is it? They'll just deal with the dimwit terrorising the neighbourhood.

I bet the hand gun association and gun clubs said similar, and look what happened to them. They're all gone.

Knife laws..because people can't be trusted with knives! Did you hear about the Chef who got nicked carrying his knives home from work due to the new law, no knives over 2 inches in public?

And the fox hunters, oh they'll never get a law to ban fox hunting?! No, but they did the next best thing and banned the use of hounds on hunts, almost crushing a massive industry that has existed for centuries.

Cigarettes regulation that dictated how box labels should be and how cigs should be displayed in stores. Who would have seen that coming?

Natural herbal health supplements...a huge multi-billion pound industry, self-regulated and no problems except 1 or 2 incidents here and there...people kept pushing the boundaries and eventually the government stepped in and regulated that, resulting in 100,000's of products (many which had been used for thousands of years, like St John's Wort) disappearing from the marketplace within 2 years and many small businesses having to withdraw from the market due to the high licensing costs and MHRA approval per product.

The list goes on...

We live in a nanny-state, where the government always knows best and will regulate anything they deemed to be even slightly risky or where there's even a tiny tiny statistical risk to the population.

 

[Plasmadaddy]

And if you choose option A) it will be a MUCH easier for everyone to see who is breaking the law! Is that a good idea?

Yes it's a fantastic idea!

The thing is that'll never happen because the majority of posters on this forum aren't the ones that keep on banging on about the law or the legalities/illegalities of certain bikes!!!

It's just the "chosen" few......

 

[soundwave]

what about all these hover boards the kids are flying round on there not legal and the police will do nothing about it and customs let them in anyway.

o and you can still buy hand guns and even a 50 cal rifle if you have to right licence and there is a 50 cal uk club.

 

[morphix]

One last try then, have you never seen a bicycle race. any discipline, road racing, downhill MTB?

I don't require an answer.

You're trying to compare apples with pears.

 

[morphix]

what about all these hover boards the kids are flying round on there not legal and the police will do nothing about it and customs let them in anyway.

o and you can still buy hand guns and even a 50 cal rifle if you have to right licence and there is a 50 cal uk club.

You cannot buy or own hand guns anywhere in the UK. They're totally illegal now. Rifles are legal, hand-guns are banned.

 

[Plasmadaddy]

I bet the hand gun association and gun clubs said similar, and look what happened to them. They're all gone.

Knife laws..because people can't be trusted with knives! Did you hear about the Chef who got nicked carrying his knives home from work due to the new law, no knives over 2 inches in public?

And the fox hunters, oh they'll never get a law to ban fox hunting?! No, but they did the next best thing and banned the use of hounds on hunts, almost crushing a massive industry that has existed for centuries.

Cigarettes regulation that dictated how box labels should be and how cigs should be displayed in stores. Who would have seen that coming?

Natural herbal health supplements...a huge multi-billion pound industry, self-regulated and no problems except 1 or 2 incidents here and there...people kept pushing the boundaries and eventually the government stepped in and regulated that, resulting in 100,000's of products (many which had been used for thousands of years, like St John's Wort) disappearing from the marketplace within 2 years and many small businesses having to withdraw from the market due to the high licensing costs and MHRA approval per product.

The list goes on...

We live in a nanny-state, where the government always knows best and will regulate anything they deemed to be even slightly risky or where there's even a tiny tiny statistical risk to the population.

All your examples can be directly attributed to deaths. Except fox hunting with hounds, not sure anyone's been killed yet but dogs ripping animals to bits is just plain cruel!

Cyclists have been and are being killed at a rate of knots, don't see the government banning cars, lorries or bikes or for that matter cycle racing where riders regularly hit 50+ m.p.h.
Way more than the average 20kg eBike.

 

[danielrlee]

I bet the hand gun association and gun clubs said similar, and look what happened to them. They're all gone.

And the fox hunters, oh they'll never get a law to ban fox hunting?! No, but they did the next best thing and banned the use of hounds on hunts, almost crushing a massive industry that has existed for centuries.

Cigarettes regulation that dictated how box labels should be and how cigs should be displayed in stores. Who would have seen that coming?

Natural herbal health supplements...a huge multi-billion pound industry, self-regulated and no problems except 1 or 2 incidents here and there...people kept pushing the boundaries and eventually the government stepped in and regulated that, resulting in 100,000's of products disappearing from the marketplace within 2 years and many small businesses having to withdraw from the market to the high licensing costs and MHRA approval per product.

The list goes on... we live in a nanny-state, where the government always knows best and will regulate anything they deemed to be in even slightly or where there's even a tiny tiny statistical risk to the population.

I'll give it to you, that is a most excellent post.

Problem is though that ebikes tend to blend in with regular pedal cycles, more so as technology improves. Enforcing a ban would be near on impossible and hard to argue that it would be in the public interest.

 

[morphix]

what about all these hover boards the kids are flying round on there not legal and the police will do nothing about it and customs let them in anyway.

o and you can still buy hand guns and even a 50 cal rifle if you have to right licence and there is a 50 cal uk club.

I haven't seen these hover boards you speak of...I've seen these weird electric things with gyroscopes in them. Is that what you mean?

Those are indeed a grey area as far as the law is concerned. They don't come meet e-bike definition as they have no pedals. They seem to go pretty fast too so I have no idea what will happen with those, only time will tell. They look to be a menace on pavements to me and pretty dangerous as they're aimed at young kids who will use them across roads and risk getting hit by buses.

 

[soundwave]

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/westlake-engineering-sport-6-alfa-steel-357-pistol-hand-guns/Other-Military-Guns/789214

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/german-sport-guns-1911-22-pistol-hand-guns/Other-Military-Guns/809712

http://www.gunstar.co.uk/sten-gun-sten-9-mm-machine-guns/Other-Military-Guns/803876

whats that then you just need a licence to buy them banned my ass

 

[Artstu]

Bicycles just aren't designed or engineered to travel at the kind of speeds mopeds do.

You're trying to compare apples with pears.

your comparison.

 

[morphix]

I'll give it to you, that is a most excellent post.

Problem is though that ebikes tend to blend in with regular pedal cycles, more so as technology improves. Enforcing a ban would be near on impossible and hard to argue that it would be in the public interest.

I agree that e-bikes do blend in, many illegal ones are hard to recognise from legal (to a point) and many police wouldn't know a legal one from an illegal one, at least the police I've spoken to anyway.

I don't think the government would ban them, that would be too difficult as you say and nearly impossible to enforce, would tie up too much police resources.

What they'd probably do instead is introduce regulation, and that would mean all manufacturers have to be registered with a government body (probably DVLA) and each e-bike sold in the UK has to be individually type-approved to say it meets the limitations of an e-bike. They would probably have some clear plates with QR central database codes on, which can be easily checked by police with a quick visual check, much like cars and motorbikes. Or they could even go further, and say all e-bikes must have a type of registration plate front and rear similar to mopeds but smaller. Then they're introduce a category of e-bikes (250W/350W/500W/1000W...the last one would probably be pushed into the AM category we have now for mopeds, small electric vehicles and cycles, so then you'd have MOT, insurance and need a driving license) and all owners must pay a relative registration and license fee annually...and probably be a requirement to pass cycling proficiency test etc etc. That would effectively kill overnight the DIY industry and all the kits...as if you rode one of those you'd stand out like a sore thumb and be an easy target for the police to pull you over.

Remember the police work on performance targets in many areas...if they get x amount of nicks a day, higher than the regional average that's a force deemed to be effective, meeting targets and offering value for money etc... it doesn't matter that they're only nicking us poor e-bikers.

 

[flecc]

We live in a nanny-state, where the government always knows best and will regulate anything they deemed to be even slightly risky or where there's even a tiny tiny statistical risk to the population.

But we already have all that nanny state regulation now. The EAPC as recently amended spells out in full and considerable detail what is permitted. The Type Approval regulations emphasise that. And EN 15194 spells out in huge depth exactly what is technically legal.

The only latitude currently is a delay in implementing the no independent throttle rule for administrative convenience.

I repeat, there is nothing lacking in the law which some even think draconian, the illegality is only an enforcement matter, and the costs of effective enforcement are prohibitive, so nothing will happen.

Just remember, almost all of our e-bikes were illegally used for 13 years from 2003 to 2013 and remained technically illegal for a further two years to 2015. The DfT knew that throughout but openly said they didn't have the time or resources to deal with this minor matter. Instead they shrugged it off by saying it was a matter for the courts.

Thus they proved what I'm saying, it is an enforcement deficiency matter, not one for more law.
.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Yes it's a fantastic idea!

The thing is that'll never happen because the majority of posters on this forum aren't the ones that keep on banging on about the law or the legalities/illegalities of certain bikes!!!

It's just the "chosen" few......

Fair enough ignore the threads I,ve started, that leaves 15 threads in " Electric Bike " section..
Three of those are dedicated to essentially illegal bikes ( with the get out for one its for "off road". ( not ones I,ve started)
Now if illegal scene is so low and most posters have no interest in using such bikes, what's the problem sticking those in a section with warnings about their use and the Forum,s attitude clearly expressed about illegal stuff ??
Anyone poking around will think we are all ( or 20% of us) supportive of 500w plus ebikes at the moment.

 

[JuicyBike]

This is a site aimed at both expert and novice, potential riders.
Whilst the experienced riders will be well able to judge the safety of a bike for fast and dangerous, sports downhill use, those same members should show some responsibility towards those with less experience.

Nobody here would wish to cause someone harm by advising the use of a high velocity machine by just anybody. I hope.

 

[morphix]

But we already have all that nanny state regulation now. The EAPC as recently amended spells out in full and considerable detail what is permitted. The Type Approval regulations emphasise that. And EN 15194 spells out in huge depth exactly what is technically legal.

The only latitude currently is a delay in implementing the no independent throttle rule for administrative convenience.

I repeat, there is nothing lacking in the law which some even think draconian, the illegality is only an enforcement matter, and the costs of effective enforcement are prohibitive, so nothing will happen.

Just remember, almost all of our e-bikes were illegally used for 13 years from 2003 to 2013 and remained technically illegal for a further two years to 2015. The DfT knew that throughout but openly said they didn't have the time or resources to deal with this minor matter. Instead they shrugged it off by saying it was a matter for the courts.

Thus they proved what I'm saying, it is an enforcement deficiency matter, not one for more law.
.

True we do, but they could go MUCH further don't you think?

All they have done so far in the law, is define what an e-bike is and set a legal limit for compliance.

There's been no attempt to regulate the industry, tax or license it. If we give them enough excuse to do that, they surely will do that. The economy is changing and electric vehicles are becoming more commonplace. It's quite possible and probable the government will order a wide review of all electric vehicles on our roads, and that will include a report on the e-bikes market and whether it needs regulation or not. Once they learn there's x amount of 1000W e-bikes being sold annually and used on our rules by-passing AM category, sure enough, regulation will come.