New Name for Forum

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Because their bikes are openly posted on here...the shop window for Pedelecs. They might as well put a card around their necks with illegal written on it in great big red letters...or put it in paper..only same..
You don't see it but we are playing straight into hands of anyone wanting to regulate Pedelecs more stringently..
Just stop telling everybody for goodness sake.
Yes build your bikes, do what you want with them. Its like the fools on fast motorbikes videoing themselves doing 150 mph and uploading to facebook. Only difference is that only affects them when they get caught. This will lead to everyone of us loosing out.
Its barmy.
There are 3 posts currently on forum with posters openly telling everyone they can achieve over 30 mph , on flat , without pedalling..??? And you are asking me to shut up !!!

And yes, close thread, the truth is upsetting a few on here..
This is getting ridiculous. I'm shocked at how far this site and forum has moved since a little over a year from ago. We had sensible e-bike enthusiasts, polite and respectful to each other..and now we have people sticking two fingers up to the law, putting everyones freedoms at risk, and when someone expresses an opinion on it, he's flamed and treated badly by fellow members exchanging personal insults or being rude.

This is a serious issue and it affects us all, so why close down the thread/discussion and pretend it's not a problem?

Yes there's always going to be people who have illegal e-bikes, and yes that's their choice if they want to ride them on the road, risking injury and/or ending up in court with a criminal conviction if they're involved in an accident.

If people want to ride illegal e-bikes, the best thing to do is to keep that as quiet as possible and not brag about it on a forum. In the past, we had people who were border-line or riding 350W, it was known but it was just not openly discussed because of the legal implications and not wanting to seem to encourage this. Now, it seems the site has shifted to just not caring and all common sense has gone out the window for the sake of money some money off advertisers.

E-bikes as an industry in the UK is still tiny and now with no proper association body or government lobbying power the BEBA once had, it would be so easy for the government to apply regulation upon it. They could easily take away our rights to own and use e-bikes without registering them and holding some kind of license. We cannot rule out that possibility so it's surely wise to be careful around the legal side of e-bikes. Especially since the UK may well be outside the EU by the end of June and no longer tied to the EU Directive.
 

Plasmadaddy

Pedelecer
Aug 17, 2015
148
97
55
London, UK
Now, it seems the site has shifted to just not caring and all common sense has gone out the window for the sake of money some money off advertisers.
Hence my suggestion to set up an alternative site where you can have your own rules and regulations.....

Then maybe we can all live in peace!
 
Mar 9, 2016
833
402
Hence my suggestion to set up an alternative site where you can have your own rules and regulations.....

Then maybe we can all live in peace!
Plasmadaddy
You ride a motorbike. No doubt tested,taxed insured and serviced.
Now just for sake of argument I decide to go back to biking. I buy a Fireblade, don't insure it, don't tax it, just ride it.. Well fine. But then I go on a forum and tell everyone what I,m doing,loads dont bother with regs/ rules/ insurance. Then government think " we cant police this, so we,ll just ban the lot"

That is exactly situation with electric mountain bikes. I,ll be sat with a bike in garage useless, not because you,ve got a 1000w bike but because its posted on here.
You ,we can all ride whatever we want. Its a free world , but for goodness sake stop posting on forums about it.
Flecc
There,s a world of difference. Mini motos can be used legally. ( gardens/ tracks/events)
1000w ebikes can not.( Well I don't know anywhere they can be used legally, we all know full well they are used on road)
 
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morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Hence my suggestion to set up an alternative site where you can have your own rules and regulations.....

Then maybe we can all live in peace!
Maybe that's not a bad idea. This forum isn't the sensible and friendly place it once was, sadly.
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
where you can have your own rules and regulations.....
They're not *my own* or *our own* rules and regulations though. They're yours too. The law is the law, and it applies to everyone.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,152
30,567
it's just a matter of when, not if, the government adopts a regulate e-bikes policy.
As I think you know Paul, I ride legal e-bikes and don't support illegal usage. However, I disagree with this notion that what is happening will bring more law into force.

First, the matter is too insignificant to attract official attention where it could matter.

Second, the EU impediment to change will be paramount, and that will still be the case even if we do leave the EU, since this EU law will still remain in force as part of a new trade agreement.

Third, the illegal use isn't in any way due to a deficiency in the law, it's solely a law breaking issue. So even if the authorities thought it worthy of attention, the decision would be one about enforcement. And that is where it would fall down, since the costs of effective enforcement are far too high for such a trivial matter, As I've previously observed, this is a far smaller issue than the illegal use of Mini-Motos and the like, yet that has never attracted new laws and the costs of effective enforcement has prevented the issue ever being dealt with successfully. Instead, all there's been were some token measures, quickly largely forgotten and abandoned.
.
 

JuicyBike

Trade Member
Jan 26, 2009
1,671
527
Derbyshire
This is getting ridiculous. I'm shocked at how far this site and forum has moved since a little over a year from ago. We had sensible e-bike enthusiasts, polite and respectful to each other..and now we have people sticking two fingers up to the law, putting everyones freedoms at risk, and when someone expresses an opinion on it, he's flamed and treated badly by fellow members exchanging personal insults or being rude.

This is a serious issue and it affects us all, so why close down the thread/discussion and pretend it's not a problem?

Yes there's always going to be people who have illegal e-bikes, and yes that's their choice if they want to ride them on the road, risking injury and/or ending up in court with a criminal conviction if they're involved in an accident.

If people want to ride illegal e-bikes, the best thing to do is to keep that as quiet as possible and not brag about it on a forum. In the past, we had people who were border-line or riding 350W, it was known but it was just not openly discussed because of the legal implications and not wanting to seem to encourage this. Now, it seems the site has shifted to just not caring and all common sense has gone out the window for the sake of money some money off advertisers.

E-bikes as an industry in the UK is still tiny and now with no proper association body or government lobbying power the BEBA once had, it would be so easy for the government to apply regulation upon it. They could easily take away our rights to own and use e-bikes without registering them and holding some kind of license. We cannot rule out that possibility so it's surely wise to be careful around the legal side of e-bikes. Especially since the UK may well be outside the EU by the end of June and no longer tied to the EU Directive.
Didn't want to get sucked into this thread but I totally agree Morphix. The tone of the site has changed over the last year, is much less polite and I believe should be more guarded about the promotion of dangerous bikes.
 
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Plasmadaddy

Pedelecer
Aug 17, 2015
148
97
55
London, UK
They're not *my own* or *our own* rules and regulations though. They're yours too. The law is the law, and it applies to everyone.
Rules and regulations pertaining to who can join, what can and can't be promoted and posted etc.

I'm fully aware of the law surrounding eBikes, I'm just fed up of being preached to by the so called judge, jury and executioners on this forum!
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Plasmadaddy
You ride a motorbike. No doubt tested,taxed insured and serviced.
Now just for sake of argument I decide to go back to biking. I buy a Fireblade, don't insure it, don't tax it, just ride it.. Well fine. But then I go on a forum and tell everyone what I,m doing,loads dont bother with regs/ rules/ insurance. Then government think " we cant police this, so we,ll just ban the lot"

That is exactly situation with electric mountain bikes. I,ll be sat with a bike in garage useless, not because you,ve got a 1000w bike but because its posted on here.
You ,we can all ride whatever we want. Its a free world , but for goodness sake stop posting on forums about it.
Flecc
There,s a world of difference. Mini motos can be used legally. ( gardens/ tracks/events)
1000w ebikes can not.( Well I don't know anywhere they can be used legally, we all know full well they are used on road)
I know people *bend the law* and ride 350W e-bikes because 250W is a little restrictive for some people and they like to go a little faster or live in areas where there's a lot of hills, have heavier bikes or are heavier people etc etc..

I totally get that. And it's always been on this forum but people just kept it quiet. And like Flud, I'm a live and let and live person. The police and government turn a blind eye e-bikes because they're not harming anyone.This isn't a debate about being anal and trying to force our opinion on others or frown on people...it's just about remembering what's legal and applying some common sense for the interests of all of us.

350W is one thing. But 1000W is a whole different ball game. That is definitely an electric moped to all intents and purposes. Bicycles just aren't designed or engineered to travel at the kind of speeds mopeds do. There's a lot more stress on the frame...you don't have the right wheels or brakes on many of these bikes (they'd unlikely pass an MOT or vehicle type registration as a moped many I've seen), and because you're travellng so much faster and probably moving amongst traffic on roads, you really need to be licensed and understand the Highway Code and how to drive. Else you're putting yourself into a situation where the risk of getting pulled over by the police or a bad accident is a real possibility. That wouldn't be a problem if it just affected yourself. However it will not only put other people at risk on the roads and pavements, but everyones right to own and use an e-bike (including all the ones who use illegal bikes!!!)

It's just a case of using a bit of common sense. If you're going to use a massive overpowered e-bike and can do it safely and sensibly, fair enough..but is it a good idea to announce it to the world on the biggest e-bike forum and website in UK?

We need to at least be giving the impression that the industry can regulate itself and is safe and responsible. If people just disregard that and act totally recklessly, the government is bound to step in and regulate us and the fun days of free e-bike riding and anything goes, will be a distant memory :-/
 

Plasmadaddy

Pedelecer
Aug 17, 2015
148
97
55
London, UK
You ride a motorbike. No doubt tested,taxed insured and serviced.
Now just for sake of argument I decide to go back to biking. I buy a Fireblade, don't insure it, don't tax it, just ride it.. Well fine. But then I go on a forum and tell everyone what I,m doing,loads dont bother with regs/ rules/ insurance. Then government think " we cant police this, so we,ll just ban the lot"
Yup, I ride a Harley Davidson. It's got illegal "not for road use" pipes just like the 99% of other HD owners.

I've also ridden with the police and can assure you that they'll never stop any of us for our noisy machines. Why? Because we ride responsibly and abide by the rules of the road.
Police will stop and clamp down on riders that ride irresponsibly.

I'd "suggest" that this sensible attitude will also apply to eBikes. Those who illegally mod their bikes and ride like maniacs will attract unwanted attention. I'd imagine the majority will go unnoticed just as we do on our Harleys.

The law have far far bigger things to concern themselves with than people who have engines capable of cutting out at more than 15.5mph

There's loads of room on the internet, set up another forum and stop preaching, please!
 
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morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Rules and regulations pertaining to who can join, what can and can't be promoted and posted etc.

I'm fully aware of the law surrounding eBikes, I'm just fed up of being preached to by the so called judge, jury and executioners on this forum!
I see. Well he, and some others, myself included are fed up of people openly breaking the law and putting OUR rights at risk.

So how do we resolve this?

a) Part company and have two camps, the legal and the illegal.
b) Act more like adults, and realise there is a law and it has to be at least seen to be followed.

If we don't use b) there probably won't be any option a) as everyone will be legal and regulated.
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
Yup, I ride a Harley Davidson. It's got illegal "not for road use" pipes just like the 99% of other HD owners.

I've also ridden with the police and can assure you that they'll never stop any of us for our noisy machines. Why? Because we ride responsibly and abide by the rules of the road.
Police will stop and clamp down on riders that ride irresponsibly.

I'd "suggest" that this sensible attitude will also apply to eBikes. Those who illegally mod their bikes and ride like maniacs will attract unwanted attention. I'd imagine the majority will go unnoticed just as we do on our Harleys.

The law have far far bigger things to concern themselves with than people who have engines capable of cutting out at more than 15.5mph

There's loads of room on the internet, set up another forum and stop preaching, please!
The problem is not the coppers tho. I agree, the police are a sensible lot and don't want to waste time pulling over e-bikers or responsible motorbikers like yourself, unless you're being silly and attracting attention to yourself.

The problem is the government. At present, we have an industry which is churning out what are electric mopeds onto our pavements and roads. And its now a totally unregulated industry. How much longer is the government going to allow that situation to go on? Going by how they remove so many things or regulate so many industries, I would guess not much longer, if we continue as we are. All they need is one major accident with a death or serious injury and that could start calls for regulation by an MP's committee or Minister trying to earn a few brownie points or come up with a clever way of taxing us all and making revenues from e-bikes.

It's just something to consider is all. We've had it relaxed and good for a long time now, but let's not take the **** and become complacent and assume that will last forever.
 
Mar 9, 2016
833
402
Yup, I ride a Harley Davidson. It's got illegal "not for road use" pipes just like the 99% of other HD owners.

I've also ridden with the police and can assure you that they'll never stop any of us for our noisy machines. Why? Because we ride responsibly and abide by the rules of the road.
Police will stop and clamp down on riders that ride irresponsibly.

I'd "suggest" that this sensible attitude will also apply to eBikes. Those who illegally mod their bikes and ride like maniacs will attract unwanted attention. I'd imagine the majority will go unnoticed just as we do on our Harleys.

The law have far far bigger things to concern themselves with than people who have engines capable of cutting out at more than 15.5mph

There's loads of room on the internet, set up another forum and stop preaching, please!
But this one is called Pedelecs...we all know legal definition of such so why are illegal issues hiding behind the legal term ??)
 

dinger19

Pedelecer
Jun 30, 2014
234
178
66
Kent
Yet another thread started by Flud with the intention of causing trouble and the more you guys keep moaning and preaching about dongles etc the more free advertising your giving them not only that its getting boring.

Anyhow.....

What's your next crusade Flud or who is next on yer list to upset.
 
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Plasmadaddy

Pedelecer
Aug 17, 2015
148
97
55
London, UK
I see. Well he, and some others, myself included are fed up of people openly breaking the law and putting OUR rights at risk.

So how do we resolve this?

a) Part company and have two camps, the legal and the illegal.
b) Act more like adults, and realise there is a law and it has to be at least seen to be followed.
Oh A please!!

As for B, I'm an adult, I realise there is a law but as I keep saying you can't keep on preaching to people who have no desire to be converted.
Clearly it doesn't work and it just gets repetitive and very boring very quickly!!!