I did initially think you were joking, but since the measure affected more than one area and included Finland, I thought you might have been thinking of that sort of phasing.
More powerful and legal e-bikes on the way!!!
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
I saw it but also the potential conflict in the measure, more power, bigger battery, weight gain. With many if not most e-bikes hovering about the 25 kilo mark already, the problem can arise. Hopefully lighter batteries will arrive to solve it. I don't see them relaxing the 25 kilo limit.
Indeed. I would think our DfT would have been something to do with that, following the representations they invited here. I've never seen any pressure from the EU side on having throttles.
I'm still nervous about the whole issue of getting this increased power measure in the UK though, given our usual over protective stance on road safety related issues.
I just don't want anyone to upset the apple cart. The trouble is, for so many of us too much is not enough. Once a new and increased power standard is accepted, someone will push more more,. Eventually we'll end up with e-bikes.....and helmets and insurance and parking restrictions.
So the changes to EU regs as currently framed will mean that cargo bikes are effectively excluded from having electric assist, unless you're able to meet the type approval regs.
I can see the logic of applying a weight and speed restriction together as being key components for safety. Of course carrying that logic forward would mean they should really make it gross vehicle weight including rider, passengers and cargo. So if I as a 100kg rider am limited to a 25kg bike, my 50kg neighbour 'should' be able to ride a 75kg bike and maintain the same level of safety risk
Hopefully they will work out an intermediate level that would mean that something like an electric assist Bakfiets cargo bike is an easy and practical solution for people. Actually for cargo and / or heavier bikes they could reduce the speed at which assistance could go to, maybe 10mph / 15km/h. If assistance is wanted at the 25km/h then maybe a basic level of type approval would be appropriate to ensure brakes etc are up to the job.
As it stands cargo bikes are better served by the current limits.
I can see the logic of applying a weight and speed restriction together as being key components for safety. Of course carrying that logic forward would mean they should really make it gross vehicle weight including rider, passengers and cargo. So if I as a 100kg rider am limited to a 25kg bike, my 50kg neighbour 'should' be able to ride a 75kg bike and maintain the same level of safety risk
Hopefully they will work out an intermediate level that would mean that something like an electric assist Bakfiets cargo bike is an easy and practical solution for people. Actually for cargo and / or heavier bikes they could reduce the speed at which assistance could go to, maybe 10mph / 15km/h. If assistance is wanted at the 25km/h then maybe a basic level of type approval would be appropriate to ensure brakes etc are up to the job.
As it stands cargo bikes are better served by the current limits.
Then it's already illegal, no change there.
Interesting about the throttle, Segways inbound then or are they too heavy?
I cautiously welcome the proposal that the power limit for e-bikes be removed. Reading the thread it's clear that there are many who welcome wholeheartedly lifting restrictions to suit their own circumstances. And some who do not.
My wife and I, both in our 70s now, use our ebikes mainly when 'out and about' in the motorvan. Battery weight becomes important because of 'van payload. Also as weight on the bike rack is very limited, and we need the lightest bikes possible as we have to lift them some 4 feet (1.2metres) to get them on the rack. (A 2 person job, without the batteries on.) I would like there to continue to be a reasonable choice of light bikes, and light batteries i.e. 2okg max weight, and with around 20 miles 'real' range. There's a market out there for others like us who motorhome and who need reasonable range (with some pedalling) with light weight, and ability to access cycle paths. Will more power = removal of right to ebike on cycleways? I really hope not, but concerned that it may.
Two things I'm always asked by the curious are 'how much did it cost?' (£750) and 'how far will it go?' (about 18 miles with some pedalling). Sharp intake of breath from Questioner when I reveal that these are about as cheap as you can pay for reasonable quality, range etc, and that £1500 is not at all uncommon. It seems that cost more than anything else is what puts many off. And remember it's often x 2... Don't even mention battery replacement costs.
We really do need throttles for starting off in traffic, or on a hill, and it's possible we couldn't ride (safely) without them.
So while I welcome the proposed changes I also am concerned at just what the manufacturers will continue to provide. Don't forget there are plenty of us just happy with things as they are!
Thanks flecc for bringing this to our attention.
My wife and I, both in our 70s now, use our ebikes mainly when 'out and about' in the motorvan. Battery weight becomes important because of 'van payload. Also as weight on the bike rack is very limited, and we need the lightest bikes possible as we have to lift them some 4 feet (1.2metres) to get them on the rack. (A 2 person job, without the batteries on.) I would like there to continue to be a reasonable choice of light bikes, and light batteries i.e. 2okg max weight, and with around 20 miles 'real' range. There's a market out there for others like us who motorhome and who need reasonable range (with some pedalling) with light weight, and ability to access cycle paths. Will more power = removal of right to ebike on cycleways? I really hope not, but concerned that it may.
Two things I'm always asked by the curious are 'how much did it cost?' (£750) and 'how far will it go?' (about 18 miles with some pedalling). Sharp intake of breath from Questioner when I reveal that these are about as cheap as you can pay for reasonable quality, range etc, and that £1500 is not at all uncommon. It seems that cost more than anything else is what puts many off. And remember it's often x 2... Don't even mention battery replacement costs.
We really do need throttles for starting off in traffic, or on a hill, and it's possible we couldn't ride (safely) without them.
So while I welcome the proposed changes I also am concerned at just what the manufacturers will continue to provide. Don't forget there are plenty of us just happy with things as they are!
Thanks flecc for bringing this to our attention.
Unlike Britain which has a powered trike weight limit of 60 kg, making goods ones impractical, the EU has no such weight limit. The new regulations may at last give us powered goods trikes. With the different EU attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if they provide for powered goods bikes as well.
Synthman's bike is ok, it's within the current 40 kg limit. Even if this changes, it won't be retrospective.
Segways are specifically banned here, despite throttles without pedelec being ok in Britain currently. It's been ruled that without pedals they aren't bicycles so cannot use the e-bike regs. This is the same as the position with powered pavement scooters.
As far as I can see, the only down side to larger motors will be less range, that is unless or until batteries become more efficient.
My own Tonaro is a 200 watt motor, the newer ones 250 and I see on a USA site that there is a 350, quite possibly all the same motor and battery, just different controller.
I am not sure what happens if you hold a 350 back to 15mph, does it only use the same number of watts as a 200 at 15mp, or do inefficiencies creep in?
My own Tonaro is a 200 watt motor, the newer ones 250 and I see on a USA site that there is a 350, quite possibly all the same motor and battery, just different controller.
I am not sure what happens if you hold a 350 back to 15mph, does it only use the same number of watts as a 200 at 15mp, or do inefficiencies creep in?
This seems to refer to something I recall reading elsewhere: that throttles will remain legal on electric bicycles which conform to the EU regulations provided the throttle can only be operated when the pedals are turning I do not know whether full throttle power is available no matter how slowly the pedals are turning, or if the throttle power is available only in proportion to how fast they are turning.
C
Cyclezee
Guest
eZee Solution
The current range of eZee conversion kits we supply are designed and built for a world market and restricted to comply with regulations in different parts of the world.
It is a simple task to de-restrict a UK supplied eZee kit and some eZee bikes, the speed can then be restricted by fitting a Cycle Analyst and setting the top speed to 15.5 mph for use on public roads and cycle routes.
If you want to go faster off road or on private roads, you can simply adjust the top speed limit with the Cycle Analyst.
The current range of eZee conversion kits we supply are designed and built for a world market and restricted to comply with regulations in different parts of the world.
It is a simple task to de-restrict a UK supplied eZee kit and some eZee bikes, the speed can then be restricted by fitting a Cycle Analyst and setting the top speed to 15.5 mph for use on public roads and cycle routes.
If you want to go faster off road or on private roads, you can simply adjust the top speed limit with the Cycle Analyst.
That's the current situation, I think. Avoiding the necessity for type approval on vehicles which don't even have the means to pedal them is something new. Anyway, flecc has followed all this more closely than I have.
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Mike, speed is a function of voltage and how the motor was wound in the factory. A 350w motor is at no disadvantage vs a 250w one if both wound for 15.5mph. The power rating of the motor is the power limit the motor can handle continuously in use without failure of mechanical or electrical parts due to heat, stress etc.
The controllers job is to limit the power to the motor, without it all motors would consume as much power as they possible could until they destroy themselves. This would happen sooner with the lower rated motors...so the controller can be tuned to meet the spec or 'strength' of the motor with the higher rated units producing more continuous power.
Hi I total agree with Cyclezee If you fit a cycle analyst type product then It counts the pulse when the controller fires from the hall sensor in the motor This give it RPM
Then you input the wheel diameter Then you have a very accurate speed control
As a Extra you have a very accurate speed display and battery indicator Power limiter
watt meter How much the Regen puts back into the battery and other features
The Cycle Analyst Homepage - Ebike Amp-Hour and Watt Meter
Frank
Then you input the wheel diameter Then you have a very accurate speed control
As a Extra you have a very accurate speed display and battery indicator Power limiter
watt meter How much the Regen puts back into the battery and other features
The Cycle Analyst Homepage - Ebike Amp-Hour and Watt Meter
Frank
There are already a few in London, seemingly with the authorities blessing. I regularly see Office Depot delivery trikes like these:
Deliveries by cargo bike to cut pollution | News
The news article says bikes without pedals are OK (YikeBike) and I thought that would include Segways but I see they are excluded under a seperate self-balancing rule.
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